Josh Duggar part 12 - Everyone has unclean hands...Go wash!

[EmCatlyn]

18 hours ago, Drala said:

I'd also like to see Josh get evidence-based treatment, and I have wondered about the possibility of depression.  He's a self-described addict, and addictive behavior often attends depression.  In addition, there is a good chance that trauma underlays his predatory behavior during adolescence.  What complicates the picture at this point is the likelihood that Josh also has developed a character pathology, most likely the sort with anti-social traits.  Some of what RU does as "treatment" can have an impact on curbing anti-social behavior--for a time.  Until he gets triggered.  The more I think about what could be going on with Josh's mental/behavioral health, the more I conclude he's a certifiable train wreck. 

 .......<snip>

Just wanted to say that IMHO,"certifiable train wreck" would make a great post count...

[OodOnTheLoo]

On February 10, 2016 at 0:56 AM, PickledPepper said:

So sorry that this is happening to you and this person who is close to you. I don't understand the aggression towards rape victims. No matter what you do you are screwed. If you don't speak out or press charges, people judge you and accuse you of enabling the rapist to commit his crimes again. If you do speak out, there are people who just hate on you for it.  They want you to go to disgustingly great lengths to prove it. It must be a hundred times worse if the person is a celebrity!  My thoughts are with you both!

 

I have always wondered how people would react if the report left out the rape aspect but left in the rest of the violence that go with it.  If I'm attacked and tell of how I was walking along when some man jumped me and beat me up I doubt anyone wouldn't be sympathetic.   Have the same situation but the attack includes him forcing himself on me and it'd be met with scrutiny, suspicion, and blame.

[SilverBeach]

On 2/12/2016 at 9:32 PM, Inky said:

I still wonder if there's hope for Jinger to break away. Not with fanfare or anything, but just quietly and gradually move away - possibly through marriage to someone who can't be controlled by JB.

Not a chance. That family, including the married ones and the kidults, are so emotionally enmeshed and religiously brainwashed that it would take a whole lot of deprogramming for breaking away to ever happen.

On 2/11/2016 at 0:15 PM, EmmieJ said:

I would love to have someone do the laundry for a week (including fluff, fold and put it away); and do the grocery shopping.  I really don't like going to the grocery store. 

 I want somebody to dust.

On 2/11/2016 at 0:27 PM, RosyDaisy said:

Yes, he does. He's that delusional, arrogant and narcissistic.

Can't stand him! He's nasty too.

[Peas n carrots]

Ugh, the Uncommen app disgusts me. I would be so angry at my DH if he needed an app to guide him on how to be a decent husband. The premise is just so wrong.

[nokidsmom]

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

Not a chance. That family, including the married ones and the kidults, are so emotionally enmeshed and religiously brainwashed that it would take a whole lot of deprogramming for breaking away to ever happen.

With all we have seen in the past year with this family, I think we can forget about Jinger or any of the kids breaking away.  I used to believe that some of them might get out via fundie lite marriages but we have seen that neither Derick or Ben, both of whom qualify to me as fundie lite, have been able to get their wives out of their parents' orbit.  On the contrary both got sucked into the Duggar machine.   And I have my doubts about JD too.    Sure he has his own life but he's still tethered to the TTH and the specials showed he's got a bit of brainwashing to overcome.

[Bethella]

1 hour ago, nokidsmom said:

With all we have seen in the past year with this family, I think we can forget about Jinger or any of the kids breaking away.  I used to believe that some of them might get out via fundie lite marriages but we have seen that neither Derick or Ben, both of whom qualify to me as fundie lite, have been able to get their wives out of their parents' orbit.  On the contrary both got sucked into the Duggar machine.   And I have my doubts about JD too.    Sure he has his own life but he's still tethered to the TTH and the specials showed he's got a bit of brainwashing to overcome.

When I was reading this I was struck with a realization: The Duggars are like a black hole. Instead of sucking in gravity and light like a real black hole they suck in all the joy, happiness and common sense in their vicinity, warping the fabric of the universe around them.

[sawasdee]

4 minutes ago, Bethella said:

When I was reading this I was struck with a realization: The Duggars are like a black hole. Instead of sucking in gravity and light like a real black hole they suck in all the joy, happiness and common sense in their vicinity, warping the fabric of the universe around them.

Horribly true!

[nokidsmom]

1 hour ago, Bethella said:

When I was reading this I was struck with a realization: The Duggars are like a black hole. Instead of sucking in gravity and light like a real black hole they suck in all the joy, happiness and common sense in their vicinity, warping the fabric of the universe around them.

I see this as particularly true with Derick.  Before he married Jill he was a  college educated young man with a decent job and seemed to have a bright future ahead of him, a future that was possible outside of the Duggar sphere.   He has made a number of questionable decisions (such as quitting his job in favor of so-called missionary work) and no doubt his in-law family, either directly or via his wife, has been a major influence.

[Swamptribe]

Hubbie was looking at a list of cancelled television shows, and came across this image.  He found it amusing, compared it to "The Last Supper" because the adults are all looking straight ahead, except for ole Judas..ah Josh.  Perhaps he saw some hottie off stage.

 

[Dandruff]

7 hours ago, Peas n carrots said:

Ugh, the Uncommen app disgusts me. I would be so angry at my DH if he needed an app to guide him on how to be a decent husband. The premise is just so wrong.

Me too.  There's no easy fix for poor parenting and education.

[zebra #13]

While I don't claim a childhood in fundydom, I was raised Mormon, the eldest of nine kids.  I'm the only escapee.  Love mah sibs, but I see most of them turning in large chunks of thinking/being in exchange for the comfort of the "known."  Conversely, I'm a pirate to them--I love them, and vice versa, but there's so little commonality with most of them that it's hard to keep a conversation going. 

I was 12 or 13 when I knew I should be going, and stayed for almost a decade longer because I knew the journey was going to be tough, and lonely.  And it has been.  But also filled with joy I couldn't have suspected.

So I see maybe one or two of the kids escaping, but no time soon.  And maybe in no obvious way.

[3KidsAndStopped]

I am highly sceptical about how the original Danica claim came about. Highly highly suspect. If you are going to falsely accuse someone of such a dreadful crime (and we do now have to assume it was a false accusation) you make damn sure you've got your facts straight, surely. To randomly accuse someone on a given day, presumably with no intelligence as to Josh being in the area is risky and stupid. Especially if you're going to go full public. The risk of ruining yourself is too great.

 

Then look at the original statement and retraction of porn addiction. Following outing by AM using addresses of family (?) This is stupid, even for someone as unwieldy as Josh. Cheating husbands generally I think do not chance family members discovering what they are doing  they cover their tracks. I cannot help using the word smoke screen to the whole scenario.

 

Would another accused now be taken as seriously? Would the person he actually cheated with garner as much interest? Josh has been transformed  from perpetrator to victim here. That is a very powerful PR tool. The molestations will never be mentioned. As time passes, the distinction between what he actually did and what he was falsely accused of will blur. People will remember him being draģged through the mud by a (excuse the expression) gold digger.  Not my opinion but that is what people will remember.

His actually cheating will be remembered as the leg humpers are already saying, everybody sins etc.

it is beyond bizarre. And bizarrely, for Josh, it has given him redemption. Odd. Very odd.

[ksgranola1]

Did he have his Ashly Madison bills coming to the house? Wouldn't Anna have gotten curious & looked it up on line? Can you just picture her sitting there trying to take all that in when he comes thru the door. She must have aged 10 years.

[Cleopatra7]

1 hour ago, ksgranola1 said:

Did he have his Ashly Madison bills coming to the house? Wouldn't Anna have gotten curious & looked it up on line? Can you just picture her sitting there trying to take all that in when he comes thru the door. She must have aged 10 years.

My guess is that "headships" handle all the financial business in Gothardland. The only way the AM thing could have gone on as long as it did in two states with such blatant evidence is because of how Gothardism keeps women stupid on purpose, bereft of even the most minimal critical thinking skills.

[jacduggar]

3 hours ago, zebra #13 said:

While I don't claim a childhood in fundydom, I was raised Mormon, the eldest of nine kids.  I'm the only escapee.  Love mah sibs, but I see most of them turning in large chunks of thinking/being in exchange for the comfort of the "known."  Conversely, I'm a pirate to them--I love them, and vice versa, but there's so little commonality with most of them that it's hard to keep a conversation going. 

I was 12 or 13 when I knew I should be going, and stayed for almost a decade longer because I knew the journey was going to be tough, and lonely.  And it has been.  But also filled with joy I couldn't have suspected.

So I see maybe one or two of the kids escaping, but no time soon.  And maybe in no obvious way.

I left the Mormon life as well. It would have been different for me, I think, if my husband hadn't decided to leave too. I'm smack dab in the middle of 6 kids and 4 are still practicing LDS. 

7 hours ago, nokidsmom said:

I see this as particularly true with Derick.  Before he married Jill he was a  college educated young man with a decent job and seemed to have a bright future ahead of him, a future that was possible outside of the Duggar sphere.   He has made a number of questionable decisions (such as quitting his job in favor of so-called missionary work) and no doubt his in-law family, either directly or via his wife, has been a major influence.

What do we know about Derick's prior mission work in Nepal? He might be no stranger to BS mission work. 

[Bad Wolf]

I think Derrick enjoyed backpacking around Nepal, his Christian hippie era. It's different now, wirh a wife and child. I don't think he really knows how to live as a "missionary" now. Sorry if this doesn't make sense, I'm drinking a really nice glass of wine, and watching the Republican debate. I need alcohol to watch.

[nst]

2 hours ago, ksgranola1 said:

Did he have his Ashly Madison bills coming to the house? Wouldn't Anna have gotten curious & looked it up on line? Can you just picture her sitting there trying to take all that in when he comes thru the door. She must have aged 10 years.

maybe he had a po box and maybe he paid his bills online ? 

and would she have access to that account or just get an allowance ?

I can't imagine that AT ALL 

[Cleopatra7]

50 minutes ago, nst said:

maybe he had a po box and maybe he paid his bills online ? 

and would she have access to that account or just get an allowance ?

I can't imagine that AT ALL 

The AM bill in Arkansas was going to Grandma Duggar's house, which is where Josh and Anna were living at the time. That Anna remained blithely ignorant about the not inconsequential charges Josh was making to their account suggests that she wasn't involved in money matters, and all the bills went directly to him.

[socalrules]

I don't think the AM bill would have been something sent in the mail. It's likely there was a monthly auto-pay from one of Josh's credit cards and any bill or notice would be sent to his email. There wouldn't be any reason Anna would know unless she read Josh's email or checked credit card bills. 

[InThePrayerCloset]

4 hours ago, socalrules said:

I don't think the AM bill would have been something sent in the mail. It's likely there was a monthly auto-pay from one of Josh's credit cards and any bill or notice would be sent to his email. There wouldn't be any reason Anna would know unless she read Josh's email or checked credit card bills. 

For what its worth, legal brothels in Australia generally appear on credit card bills as something totally innocuous like "Bills Pizza", "Johns Newsagency" or "Freds Hardware" so even if Anna reviewed his credit card (which i doubt she did...) it might not have been obvious. I doubt a website like AM would ever (a) have paper receipts posted to the subscribers house or (b) use identifiable billing titles on credit cards

[halcionne]

37 minutes ago, InThePrayerCloset said:

For what its worth, legal brothels in Australia generally appear on credit card bills as something totally innocuous like "Bills Pizza", "Johns Newsagency" or "Freds Hardware" so even if Anna reviewed his credit card (which i doubt she did...) it might not have been obvious. I doubt a website like AM would ever (a) have paper receipts posted to the subscribers house or (b) use identifiable billing titles on credit cards

To the bolded, I agree that this must've been their policy, since the fine print stated that the only way to cash in on the guarantee (which Josh purchased) was to have AM mail a check to the address of record. They advertised discretion, and then offered a guarantee that would be potentially embarrassing if the client were to request a refund.

[Imagine20]

I wonder what kind of mind fuckery JB pulls behind closed doors. What happened to Derick that everything about him would change from his career aspirations to his appearance? I'm sure JB is a master manipulator, and if it ever hit Derick that it was happening it hit him too late.

As for Josh and Anna, I'm sure they don't communicate like most married people. Anna is expected to just forgive and forget and they never have a deep conversation about how all of this has affected her and how he really feels about Gothardism and their marriage. Do these women really not feel? The Oatmeal drew a picture that I think fits perfectly. 

[Secular Sweetness]

Yup, I think it all goes back to JB.  Little snippets I read (of course I don't know if they are true, but I could see it) have mentioned that he's unbelievably controlling, like more than people even think.  Just the little they've shown on the show, like how Ben was asked to pretty much give up his life to come and stay in the warehouse and work for JB while he courted Jessa.  I think JB sucked Derrick into the GotHard crap that men should be self employed.  According to their teachings daughters are under the full control of their fathers until they marry, then under their husbands, so it would make sense that Anna left FL, but as most here know, JB will only allow his daughters to marry men (in Ben's case boys) who are willing to come under great influence of JB.  If the girls aren't married off young to guys their age, it seems like it would be harder for JB to get guys a little older to submit to him. They never showed Josh going to Anna's father for anything after they were married.  Another thing I've read (again who knows for sure) that JB will not order food in a restaurant if the server taking the order is female, he makes Michelle order, because he thinks it wrong for the woman to be working outside of the home.  I wonder if he does that with every working woman, like checking in at the airport, etc..  I think JB has gone to great lengths (along with TLC) to hide his real way of doing things.

How is Josh going to come home, assuming he feels like his life was pulled out from under him in a very public way, to return to his large family that has, regardless how they try to forgive him again or pray with him, will have a lot of anger.  And, JD taking over as 'the good role model'.  How could Josh work anywhere except behind the seen for JB.  Who would buy a car from him again, any business he might try to start would have to have customers of some sort (remember their cult wants the men to be self employed).  I don't think he will be forgotten as a child molester or sex addict, although he's not on the registry, with his some what fame, he almost might as well be.  So it's likely he and Anna can't just move away and live quietly since people will recognize them.  With him having received no real counselling I think he's going to be either totally broken or a sociopath.  They should really consider hiding all their guns from him.

On another note, thoughts were that the house was taken out of Anna's and Josh's name because of possible law suits, but I wonder if it was more so because of RU.  Reading the RU material, they mention having their patients(?) apply for food stamps while they stay there, so perhaps that's hard to do when you have a home in a different state.  The other thing is that it seems like some kind of fraud by RU to have 'patients' come and pay to be there and all but require them to apply for food stamps too.  I can't believe they include that info on their website.

[jcanglin991]

I think JB knows where  lot of bodies are buried, so to speak, and he wouldn't have a problem finding a job and house for Josh in a discreet location. I knew a guy like him, who could get a ticket fixed  or a rule bent for his friends. In return, his friends returned the favor. He was a great guy, actually, and did a lot for his kids' school and the church, but he had been around enough to know secrets and unusual ways of doing things. He didn't go against you if you were not a friend, but he knew people who could take care of things if you were. The difference here is, I don't get the feeling JB is particularly well-liked, but that people know he is not a good man to cross, there have been stories of him bullying people to get what he wanted.

[diplomat]

5 hours ago, Imagine20 said:

Do these women really not feel? The Oatmeal drew a picture that I think fits perfectly. 

as someone who grew up in the cult of Gothardism, I am in love with this drawing. Because of course we were always expected to smile, whether a "joyful smile" (when actually happy), an "obedient smile" (because God says you're supposed to "rejoice" so you're obeying him by smiling), or a "ministry smile" (whenever anyone could see you). 

As for feelings generally, those were prohibited. Anything and everything that happened to you was to be unthinkingly "accepted" as God's will, which is probably part of the reason why so many fundie girls suffered sexual and physical abuse. (That, and the fact that Mr. Gothard's teaching generally blamed "sexual sin" upon the female.)