Josh Duggar part 12 - Everyone has unclean hands...Go wash!

[EmmieJ]

2 hours ago, OnceUponATime said:

I would prefer to have someone scrub the floors and cook all the meals for a week.

Up your game guys - you need to start brushing up on those household skills

I would love to have someone do the laundry for a week (including fluff, fold and put it away); and do the grocery shopping.  I really don't like going to the grocery store. 

[RosyDaisy]

Does JB actually think that he can support 19 kids and all their kids without any skills, education or jobs? Is he really that dense?

Yes, he does. He's that delusional, arrogant and narcissistic.

[refugee]

On 2/9/2016 at 2:40 PM, Artemesia said:

And as an oppressed teenager he could at least look forward to being an adult and having his freedom. What does he have to look forward to now?

I don't know about this... At least one heavily gothard-influenced, multigenerational family we knew in the old church had grown, married sons who still deferred publicly to their father--it was pretty clear who held the reins in his fist. He was definitely the patriarch. I don't know if his sons will ever be autonomous, short of his death.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

4 hours ago, nst said:

does this really surprise anyone now that M./JB have promoted anything to do with endorsing men and families to be more adoring of their wives and families . Their brand is dead and buried and they think they can still promote things tht will appeal to people. 

Who is going to listen to them? Their brand of whatever they are preaching is over and they are grasping at straws.

The more Josh stays away the more questions people have.  Clearly he will be out in a year not less.  They are delusional 

 

Unfortunately as long as TLC is cutting those checks and giving them a platform the brand is very much alive.

The Duggar brand is like Voldemort...just won't die no matter what is thrown at it.  I wonder what they made their horcruxes out of.  Or who.

[Georgiana]

9 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Unfortunately as long as TLC is cutting those checks and giving them a platform the brand is very much alive.

The Duggar brand is like Voldemort...just won't die no matter what is thrown at it.  I wonder what they made their horcruxes out of.  Or who.

Pretty sure JB and Michelle made 19 horcruxes, and much like Tom Riddle's, those facilitated their rise to fame/power.

[PracticeMakesProgress]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

 

The Duggar brand is like Voldemort...just won't die no matter what is thrown at it.  I wonder what they made their horcruxes out of.  Or who.

19 Horcruxes and Counting?

[NakedKnees]

13 minutes ago, PracticeMakesProgress said:

19 Horcruxes and Counting?

The real question is: who did they kill to make those horcruxes?

Are they so godly and pro-life that any spilled seed counts as murder and JB made "some very bad mistakes" as Michelle was "joyfully available" at inept times of the month...?

(sorry for that image) 

[PracticeMakesProgress]

1 minute ago, NakedKnees said:

The real question is: who did they kill to make those horcruxes?

 

Answer:  The free spirits of any and all children and grandchildren raised on/near the compound. 

[Alicja]

6 hours ago, karen77 said:

See, and I wouldn't care about that, I just would like some really nice yarn (or a gift card for such!)

 

6 hours ago, OnceUponATime said:

I would prefer to have someone scrub the floors and cook all the meals for a week.

Up your game guys - you need to start brushing up on those household skills

these all work too! good quality yarn and a nice meal will never go out of style.

[luv2laugh]

I HATE and I mean HATE feeling sympathetic for Josh, let alone this entire family, but I'm actually very worried that Josh might be suffering from severe depression and has no access to a psychiatrist or medication (if diagnosed with it, and if needed) at this rehab.... I mean, he fell hard, very very very hard. I would be surprised if he isn't suffering from depression. And IF he does, and IF he doesn't get treatment for depression, it is bound to get worse when he gets back realizes the whole family threw him under the bus for the sake of $$$ and their brand on TV, and the whole family ends up treating him like dirt from now on.

What I'd LIKE to see happen: (I know, I know, but let me dream!)
Anna leaves. (Nix that because lets get real, it won't be happening.)
Josh realizes that his whole screwed up upbringing by JB & Michelle is a large portion of his problems. Also, because JB & Michelle pimped out the children on TV in the first place after the molestations, it ruined his reputation.  He gets fed up with being treated like dirt by JB & Michelle and being controlled by them and makes a break for it WITH Anna. I sincerely HOPE he TRULY changes for the good for Anna's sake and the children (gets psych treatment, and attends marriage counseling by a licensed psychologist) and they escape fundie life. I hope he can convince Anna that these beliefs caused him major issues and commits to her, steps up to the plate, but tells her they need to get the heck out of this place, FAR AWAY from JB & Michelle, and maybe encourages Anna to go college, or both do.  I hope he and Anna will write a tell all together about growing up Fundie and escaping together and living like normal, healthy people and productive citizens of society. This is the ONLY Josh repentance I might be willing to support...

[MzMcLean]

2 hours ago, PracticeMakesProgress said:

19 Horcruxes and Counting?

Oh please oh please oh pleeeeease make this a new thread title and or post count!! (Not like I'll ever get there lol)

[Kjaerringa]

I think Duggarbrands, Inc. is spinning merrily along, to get the fickle media to follow the newest bandwagon. Lawsuit dropped? Still questions? Best not to let them dig too deeply. Why, look over here, everybody! Derick is painting JillyMuffin's toes! Clearly, she is preggers. Or too ill with Zika to paint them herself. Or getting a pedicure to fly home to Arkansas.  Prepare for Girls in Pants photos and Courting Rumour Eleventy Seven! Operation Media Distraction is underway........again.

[season of life]

I have to ask myself what it's going to take to make any one of the Duggars break away and start on their own. None of the married kids have set out on their path. Molestation scandal? Water under the bridge. A huge affair? It's okay, he prayed his sins away! What other terrible things can this family undergo until they lose a huge chunk of their fans? I keep hoping someone will go to a real college or pick up some type of work outside of Boob's influence, but everyone seems to be stuck in this cult. Jill is going to be an eternal babymaking machine. Jessa will forever be taking selfies with her dimwitted husband. And Josh is going to go back to a broken, disgraced marriage. It's just sad.

[Inky]

I still wonder if there's hope for Jinger to break away. Not with fanfare or anything, but just quietly and gradually move away - possibly through marriage to someone who can't be controlled by JB.

[OrangeCat]

1 hour ago, Inky said:

I still wonder if there's hope for Jinger to break away. Not with fanfare or anything, but just quietly and gradually move away - possibly through marriage to someone who can't be controlled by JB.

I truly don't see any of the girls breaking away through marriage.  Good ol'Boob isn't going to let that happen.  Daddy knows best and won't let any guy that has even the faintest glimmer of a independent spirit get too close.  He needs more malleable guys to follow his brand of BS and do his bidding.  

I just want one of them to wake up one morning and realize that she can live her own life, follow through on her dreams and yet still be a good Christian and still love her family.  

[Drala]

13 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

I HATE and I mean HATE feeling sympathetic for Josh, let alone this entire family, but I'm actually very worried that Josh might be suffering from severe depression and has no access to a psychiatrist or medication (if diagnosed with it, and if needed) at this rehab.... I mean, he fell hard, very very very hard. I would be surprised if he isn't suffering from depression. And IF he does, and IF he doesn't get treatment for depression, it is bound to get worse when he gets back realizes the whole family threw him under the bus for the sake of $$$ and their brand on TV, and the whole family ends up treating him like dirt from now on.

What I'd LIKE to see happen: (I know, I know, but let me dream!)
Anna leaves. (Nix that because lets get real, it won't be happening.)
Josh realizes that his whole screwed up upbringing by JB & Michelle is a large portion of his problems. Also, because JB & Michelle pimped out the children on TV in the first place after the molestations, it ruined his reputation.  He gets fed up with being treated like dirt by JB & Michelle and being controlled by them and makes a break for it WITH Anna. I sincerely HOPE he TRULY changes for the good for Anna's sake and the children (gets psych treatment, and attends marriage counseling by a licensed psychologist) and they escape fundie life. I hope he can convince Anna that these beliefs caused him major issues and commits to her, steps up to the plate, but tells her they need to get the heck out of this place, FAR AWAY from JB & Michelle, and maybe encourages Anna to go college, or both do.  I hope he and Anna will write a tell all together about growing up Fundie and escaping together and living like normal, healthy people and productive citizens of society. This is the ONLY Josh repentance I might be willing to support...

I'd also like to see Josh get evidence-based treatment, and I have wondered about the possibility of depression.  He's a self-described addict, and addictive behavior often attends depression.  In addition, there is a good chance that trauma underlays his predatory behavior during adolescence.  What complicates the picture at this point is the likelihood that Josh also has developed a character pathology, most likely the sort with anti-social traits.  Some of what RU does as "treatment" can have an impact on curbing anti-social behavior--for a time.  Until he gets triggered.  The more I think about what could be going on with Josh's mental/behavioral health, the more I conclude he's a certifiable train wreck. 

The odds of recovery don't look good to me, given the culture/environment that surrounds and informs him. There is a place where I have believe that a higher power can tip the scales.  What fascinates me about this particular situation is that although I have seen spirituality play a huge role in recovery, in Josh's case, his spiritual resources appear to be bankrupt at best and pathological at worst.  Spiritually bankrupt because his religious training is so rigidly legalistic.  Spiritually pathological because his religious practice appeals so much to a need to power-over and control.     

[jcanglin991]

Josh's model of a man is Jim Bob and others in the cult who exercise rigid control of all resources, including education. People said Jim Bob didn't seem to want Josh to move for the FRC job. I think there were two reasons, one, he probably knew about the porn, maybe strip clubs as well. Two, he knew Josh would interact with people outside the cult who might lead him out of it. I think Josh was okay with some aspects of his previous life, mostly having total control over his wife and kids, but he also originally wanted a different life and saw no way to get it. I'm sure he was told in no uncertain terms when he left that he was representing Gothard and ATI and he better not mess up.  I agree as some have said that the relative freedom of his new life finally gave him a chance to rebel. I just wish he hadn't been dragging an innocent wife four kids with him.

[Drala]

After I responded to luv2laugh with my thoughts about Josh, I got to thinking about the recovery issues of young people raised in cults.  How does a person recover from a lifetime of spiritual abuse?  Perhaps it helps to think about what happens to people who are spiritually abused from early infancy.

The Talmudic concept of a "golem" comes to mind.  Because cult babies have been systematically denied exercise of their free will and have had independent thought crushed and demonized, people raised in spiritually abusive environments sometimes seem like clay figures or artificially created human beings. To me, an inability to authentically speak from a strong sense of self creates the impression of a body without a soul.  Various definitions for this Hebrew idea-word is that of a a lump, clod, fool, or blockhead. Golem are submissive and never really act on their own.  The Talmud uses the word to mean "unformed" or "imperfect."  How does one re-form what is fundamentally un-formed?  In Talmudic folklore, the golem is magically brought to life by shoving a piece of paper with Hebrew letter-words into its mouth.  Sort of like Christian cult babies who are raised by shoving scripture down their throats. 

Is Josh a golem -- does he totally lack any spark of true humanity?  His weakness for porn suggests he's very much a human.  But I wonder how he can find himself, a true self, under all that mud and clay that's been heaped on throughout childhood?  And how will he find his own voice with all the Gothardism shoved in his mouth as his imagined source of life?  My view of religious cults is that they are for all practical purposes diabolically occult in what they do to the human spirit, particularly that of vulnerable children.   

[ksgranola1]

11 hours ago, OrangeCat said:

I truly don't see any of the girls breaking away through marriage.  Good ol'Boob isn't going to let that happen.  Daddy knows best and won't let any guy that has even the faintest glimmer of a independent spirit get too close.  He needs more malleable guys to follow his brand of BS and do his bidding.  

I just want one of them to wake up one morning and realize that she can live her own life, follow through on her dreams and yet still be a good Christian and still love her family.  

I don't think the girls even know , you don't keep living at home w/mommy-daddy once you're 18-21. That's mooshing. These piddling "jobs" he gives them in Duggar Enterprises are laughable. My $$ is still on Ben, but it might take him10 or 15 years. He's not a bundle of ambition.

[twinmama]

On 2/11/2016 at 6:03 PM, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

www.inquisitr.com/2781163/josh-duggars-parents-tell-men-to-be-uncommen-do-jim-bob-and-michelle-duggar-think-app-will-save-their-son/

Not sure if this is being discussed yet. So now treating your wife with kindness can be a competitive game, and an unfaithful husband can redeem himself with compliments and waterproof mascara... What's this world coming to?

OH MY GOD, if you don't want to do your job as a husband and father unless it is made into a game for you, then DON'T!!!! That is beyond stupid.

[EmmieJ]

15 hours ago, OrangeCat said:

I truly don't see any of the girls breaking away through marriage.  Good ol'Boob isn't going to let that happen.  Daddy knows best and won't let any guy that has even the faintest glimmer of a independent spirit get too close.  He needs more malleable guys to follow his brand of BS and do his bidding.  

I just want one of them to wake up one morning and realize that she can live her own life, follow through on her dreams and yet still be a good Christian and still love her family.  

I think it would have to be accidental.  As in, one of the daughters marries an approved suitor, AND they do not live one mile down the road from the Duggar compound, but actually live some distance away.  Then, even though the new couple still are part of ATI, on their own they gain some more exposure to the outside world and begin to have a few doubts, start to question their upbringing.  I could see them becoming fundie-light before JimBob could say "nooooooooooooooooooooooo!"  

[Valerie3kids]

I am at the point that I just do not think any of them will actually break away or any time soon. They have everything taken care of for them. They do not have any stress that most "outsiders" do such as mortgage, food, electricity or loss of job etc. If they want a new electronic piece they seem to get it. Jinger has quite a camera set up that many people can no afford to own. Yes, they are expected to keep sweet (too much stress for me right there), take care of their parents brood and be paraded about as perfect but their lives in their opinion could be so much worse. Is JD willing to give up his flying to break away? I am not sure. They seem to go shopping, spend a lot of time on their looks and have a lot of spare time on their hands. That doesn't work for those of us who know real life but it seems to work for them. How many places have they traveled to that many of us will never ever go to? If you get in to trouble, mom and dad step forward, shield you from anything uncomfortable such as the public scrutiny and take care of the problem. I know I am missing many things but I am at the point I just don't see any of them making a run for it. They seem to be relaxed and happy in their own demented lifestyle.

[Jucifer]

5 hours ago, Drala said:

After I responded to luv2laugh with my thoughts about Josh, I got to thinking about the recovery issues of young people raised in cults.  How does a person recover from a lifetime of spiritual abuse?  Perhaps it helps to think about what happens to people who are spiritually abused from early infancy.

The Talmudic concept of a "golem" comes to mind.  Because cult babies have been systematically denied exercise of their free will and have had independent thought crushed and demonized, people raised in spiritually abusive environments sometimes seem like clay figures or artificially created human beings. To me, an inability to authentically speak from a strong sense of self creates the impression of a body without a soul.  Various definitions for this Hebrew idea-word is that of a a lump, clod, fool, or blockhead. Golem are submissive and never really act on their own.  The Talmud uses the word to mean "unformed" or "imperfect."  How does one re-form what is fundamentally un-formed?  In Talmudic folklore, the golem is magically brought to life by shoving a piece of paper with Hebrew letter-words into its mouth.  Sort of like Christian cult babies who are raised by shoving scripture down their throats. 

Is Josh a golem -- does he totally lack any spark of true humanity?  His weakness for porn suggests he's very much a human.  But I wonder how he can find himself, a true self, under all that mud and clay that's been heaped on throughout childhood?  And how will he find his own voice with all the Gothardism shoved in his mouth as his imagined source of life?  My view of religious cults is that they are for all practical purposes diabolically occult in what they do to the human spirit, particularly that of vulnerable children.   

Drala, very interesting, thank you for posting that.

" How does a person recover from a lifetime of spiritual abuse?"  It's likely a long process and different for each person.

35 years after leaving the cult I was raised in,  I'm still dealing with this stuff. 

As much as I dislike Josh I hope he still has that spark.

 

[Percy]

Off topic to a certain extent.

An article in today's paper in Australia about teenagers and porn.  The article mentions a 15 year old boy and his first sexual experience.  How after watching porn to see how to 'perform', his first encounter was a miserable failure.  His expectation was that what he saw on the videos was reflective of real life and we all know it is not.  Teenagers are exposed to porn and some do not have the insight to dissect real from fiction, causing unhappy encounters and in some cases abuse.

Josh was rumoured to have watched porn as a teenager.  Maybe his expectations of his sex life are off, and I know this has been mentioned before, because of his lack of insight and emotional immaturity.  

I don't think Josh will stay long term, he has had a taste of freedom and he needs that freedom to make mistakes and grow up.

 

My guess is he will get to late 30's or early 40's and have a midlife crisis and reflection on what he has achieved in his life and where he wants to go.  Whether he takes Anna with him is anyone's guess.

No one in that family has been taught true charity or service for the sake of others, only for the sake of the a Duggar family.

rambling over....

[Chelio93]

12 hours ago, ksgranola1 said:

I don't think the girls even know , you don't keep living at home w/mommy-daddy once you're 18-21. That's mooshing. These piddling "jobs" he gives them in Duggar Enterprises are laughable. My $$ is still on Ben, but it might take him10 or 15 years. He's not a bundle of ambition.

I can see him going to JB, "I was at the Taco Bell because I just took my allergy medicine** and that Dude makes $8.00 an hour." You pay me $2.13+ a tract"

**snark!!