Kirk Cameron to Produce Pro-slavery Audio Drama

[DomWackTroll]

42 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

Ah, I wondered if that was the case.  He was being interviewed on the Dan Patrick Show (sports talk show) about a recent movie he was in about football, I think.  Sean finished the sports part of his spiel, then suddenly started going on and on about the more important aspect of the movie, religion.  They went to commercial break pretty quick.  It was rather awkward, and I suspected he was about to start preaching.

Yeah, I've seen the trailer for it online. "We're not here to celebrate the name of our teams or our schools, but to celebrate the only name that matters: Jesus!" (paraphrasing) Will there ever be any Christian films that aren't just totally cornball and cliched? Is it even possible? Hell, even the Botkins and their friends commiserate on Facebook about how embarrassingly lame Christian movies are. 

[ALM7]

On 2/7/2016 at 1:59 PM, refugee said:

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2004/neo-confederate-preacher-steve-wilkins-pushes-distorted-view-history

Good read, thank you for sharing @refugee.

[K'Z'K]

I'm so disappointed in Sean Astin. He was my first celebrity crush. Bad roles are one thing, but this bullshit? Behavior unbecoming of a Goonie.

Never liked Cameron, though, so there's that.

[older than allosaurs]

6 hours ago, Whoosh said:

I hear ya about your roommate.  It does get complex.  Obviously others can do better speaking on this topic far better than I can, but I will try to express my thoughts.  The huge difference I see between someone like your roommate and Obama is hard for me to express without using antiquated language.  Since the systematic oppression of various groups is rooted in this antiquated thinking, I am going to go for it and use that language.  Some biracial people "can pass" and some can't.  As long as we label and identify and oppress groups of people based on belonging to a specific race, there will be a genetic reality and then there will be what they "can pass" as (if they so choose) in order to avoid systematic oppression and discrimination.  ...

I (likewise mighty WASPY although I am genetically part Native American, so limitations of experience apply) find your summary of issues excellent. Racial and ethnic identity have so many layers that we often talk past each other even when we are earnestly trying to learn and share. 

The one-drop rule for black status comes originally from slavery--how else could owners rape their slaves generation after generation and still get to count the lighter and lighter children as black property? After Emancipation the attitudes remained, and an allusion to someone being "touched by the tar brush" could be enough to ruin your social status and marriage prospects. Conversely, the common line--"only two things in this world I have to do--stay black and die"--was a reminder of racial pride, a way to say that black identity is not only enforced but also chosen.

Now that discrimination and privilege are more structural than codified in U.S. society, more aspects of race and culture are, at least possibly, up for self-identification. And where are the limits of that? My granddaughter has a visibly African-American mother and a white father. She is light-skinned and blue eyed and certainly could "pass," if that's a term that still has meaning. When she and my daughter are out together without her dad, people think my daughter is the nanny. What identity or blend of identities she will eventually feel most comfortable choosing is anyone's guess.

Although I generally think it's none of my business how people identify, I do admit I draw a line at making up a racial identity out of thin air, a la Rachel Dolezal. To say you have always identified and felt most comfortable with black people and black culture--no problem. To say you are black because you wish you were feels wrong to me. For one thing, to me it smacks of more white privilege. Why not just take direction from black people on how best to serve the movement? Why claim the right to be the one in charge?

And one thing on being Cherokee. For a long time, the Cherokee Nation had expansive policies that allowed a  lot of people who were marginally, if at all, of native heritage to claim tribal membership. It's not my part of the country and I don't know details, but I've met many tribal members around the West who distrust pretty much anyone who claims Cherokee status. My Native students at the high school would use air quotes about another staff member they thought was a wannabe, "Oh you know, she's "Cherokee..."

 

 

 

 

[twinmama]

On 2/9/2016 at 5:09 PM, Toothfairy said:

His sister is so different. Still annoying but different 

I spent a good 15 seconds sad that Tracy Gold was crazy, then I remembered tv sister and you're talking about Candace! That's a relief.

BTW, does he actually have mixed race children? I remember the Growing Pains movie they made his character had adopted some black children, but I can't seem to find any picture or mentions of his actual family past his wife and the fact that he has many kids. Not that it matters at all.

[halcionne]

His son Jack was on 19KAC with him. I remembered him as being black, but rewatching this segment, I'm not so sure. And now I feel weird about trying to guess his ethnicity.  Best shot of Jack is at the very end.

 

 

[Alicja]

Thanks for the input on Obama and how he self-identifies.

My first roommate in college identified as Cherokee.  She was 1/16th and had red hair, pale and freckled skin, and blue eyes.  Of course, if I had any Native American blood, I'd be very proud of it!

The current chief of the Cherokee Nation is only 1/32 Cherokee, I believe.

I'm of Cherokee Freedmen descent, and while I'm definitely white-passing and I never claim to be non-white, it's something I'm very proud of. We survived so much.

[Cleopatra7]

15 hours ago, halcionne said:

His son Jack was on 19KAC with him. I remembered him as being black, but rewatching this segment, I'm not so sure. And now I feel weird about trying to guess his ethnicity.  Best shot of Jack is at the very end.

 

 

By American standards, Jack would be considered black. I'm actually surprised Cameron would let his son have such a huge Afro, since conservatives in general seem to regard natural black hairstyles as sloppy at best and "thuggish" at worse. 

[Johanna25]

A lot of Americans have family stories that "Grandma was part Indian." Claiming that kind of ancestry seems romantic and adds a cachet in their eyes. For some reason it is usually Cherokee that they claim. Maybe because their comunities were accepting of runaway slaves and others and were originally in the vicinity of east coast settlements. Today with genetic testing like 23 and me, the falsity of most such claims is being exposed. My neice's family is one such, her mom boasted of their native american roots and attended new-age type native gatherings. When my neice got her analysis back it was totally European except some 0.1 percent each of Ashkenazi and North African from our side.

I got mine done also, it's kind of fun, about what I expected to see. I also had 0.1 percent Mongolian. Perhaps I'm a decendant of Attilla the Hun or one of his band.

[browncoatslytherin]

39 minutes ago, Johanna25 said:

I got mine done also, it's kind of fun, about what I expected to see. I also had 0.1 percent Mongolian. Perhaps I'm a decendant of Attilla the Hun or one of his band.

or genghis khan. he sure loved to spread his seed around...

[Imagine20]

The Sioux tribe that's most likely in my family tree requires one parent be enrolled. Although my uncle claimed it's Blackfoot and they require 1/4. I don't subscribe to the one drop rule, so I just call myself white since I didn't grow up in the culture and that's what I mainly am and how I was raised.  

My dad's dad's side of the family isn't close, so it's difficult to get straight answers about the family tree.  His mom's side is close and they have the family tree dating back as far as records allow.

I did 23andme and I loved the results (and they continuously update with new traits.) It's amazing what your DNA contains, like mine is 4% Neanderthal. Unfortunately, it only traces mitochondrial DNA so it only shows your mom's side. 

[CyborgKin]

I was a little confused by the OP.  It's slightly misleading as it implies that this does't actually exist yet.  It was made last year: http://www.audiotheatrecentral.com/2015/07/with-lee-in-virginia-new-ga-henty-drama-now-released.html

And it's on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/With-Lee-Virginia-Extraordinary-Adventures/dp/B01187Q5RK

The first "Top Customer Review" says:

Quote

This is Kirk Cameron. I had the honor of playing "Stonewall Jackson" in this audio adventure project along with my son, James, who played "Will Upton." Thought I'd add my thoughts too. I love Heirloom Audio's commitment first to a triumphant, victorious, and thoroughly biblical view of the world, where covenant-keepers win and covenant-breakers loose. Secondly, to their standards of excellence in their productions thus far. The quality of creative production, the historical importance of the real-life heroes in "Under Drake's Flag," "In Freedom's Cause," and "With Lee in Virginia," combined with intentional teaching of timeless truths that transform families and nations, make these things real treasures in the hands of parents. I recommend them wholeheartedly and look forward to the next Audio Heirloom adventure! Onward!!

[riffle bolded]

Um, Kirk, that's not how customer reviews work.  If you helped make the thing, you're not a customer.  Ugh.

Another review:

Quote

Like "In Freedom's Cause", my boys and I really liked "With Lee in Virginia". We found that story well produced and well written. I appreciate that the producers are able to stay fairly true to Henty's story while both enhancing the Christian content and reducing the length to fit on two CDs.

Don't let the subject matter scare you away. This audio drama addresses what most southerners saw as the reason for the Civil War as well as the evils of slavery. It does a good job of portraying how men who were Christians could fight for the Confederacy while still showing slavery as an unbiblical evil.

One can hope.

[roddma]

Kirk also got Julie McCullough fired for posing in Play Boy.
I remember the 'loss of virginity episode' In one way Im glad it was Natalie to show not just popular girls lose it.

[Vex]

On 7/2/2016 at 7:12 AM, Miss M said:

Well there goes Sean Astin who is in it and Brian Blessed who reviewed it, for me, checking them on the "don't watch anymore" list, I know actor have to work, but really!!

Welp, LOTR is forever marred for me now.

I wasn't really surprised to read this until you guys said he had black kids. Then the wtf went off the scales. I find it hard to believe anyone can abide such bullshit in 2016, but for someone whose kids are black to work on something like this is unbelievable.

I know that actors don't necessarily agree with the views put forward in their projects, but I can't understand why any actor would accept a role in this unless they had some level of sympathy with the text.

[AliceInFundyland]

I also find myself at the end of this thread more troubled by Sean Astin then Kirk (although, ) What possibly could have happened to go from Lord of the Rings to this? The answer has to be more complicated than "he got religion." Bizarre. 

[Jana814]

5 hours ago, roddma said:

Kirk also got Julie McCullough fired for posing in Play Boy.
I remember the 'loss of virginity episode' In one way Im glad it was Natalie to show not just popular girls lose it.

I remember that story. They were suppose to do a big story line between the characters. He refused and got her fired instead. 

[anjulibai]

The most recent thing I saw Sean Astin in was for an app for a game having to do The Hobbit. Guy must be hard pressed for money. 

[Mercer]

Don't let the subject matter scare you away. This audio drama addresses what most southerners saw as the reason for the Civil War as well as the evils of slavery. It does a good job of portraying how men who were Christians could fight for the Confederacy while still showing slavery as an unbiblical evil.

I'm skeptical of that. If you really want to show slavery as an "unbiblical evil," why not choose a text that tells the truth that slavery is an unmitigated wrong? There are plenty of them to choose from that would make amazing audio dramas. Why choose a pro-slavery text in the first place?

I'm sure they changed it around and removed the worst stuff, but... ultimately, they picked a text that required that type of cherry picking, and are still presenting it as a good and noble example. That's a problem.

No doubt their drama isn't going to claim slavery is good - but the author of their drama did. The fact they're using it (and praising it!) anyway makes me think they are indifferent at best, and possibly have an even more negative agenda regarding race.

[PennySycamore]

On February 12, 2016 at 0:20 PM, Johanna25 said:

A lot of Americans have family stories that "Grandma was part Indian." Claiming that kind of ancestry seems romantic and adds a cachet in their eyes. For some reason it is usually Cherokee that they claim. Maybe because their comunities were accepting of runaway slaves and others and were originally in the vicinity of east coast settlements. Today with genetic testing like 23 and me, the falsity of most such claims is being exposed. My neice's family is one such, her mom boasted of their native american roots and attended new-age type native gatherings. When my neice got her analysis back it was totally European except some 0.1 percent each of Ashkenazi and North African from our side.

I got mine done also, it's kind of fun, about what I expected to see. I also had 0.1 percent Mongolian. Perhaps I'm a decendant of Attilla the Hun or one of his band.

In the classic Custer Died for Yor Sins, Vine Deloria, jr talked a bit about the fact that some many white Americans claimed to have Native ancestry.  It was never a male Native ancestor, only women.  He says that with all these white people claiming Indian ancestry, some of the tribes must have 100% female!

[Cleopatra7]

On 2/12/2016 at 3:35 PM, CyborgKin said:

I was a little confused by the OP.  It's slightly misleading as it implies that this does't actually exist yet.  It was made last year: http://www.audiotheatrecentral.com/2015/07/with-lee-in-virginia-new-ga-henty-drama-now-released.html

And it's on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/With-Lee-Virginia-Extraordinary-Adventures/dp/B01187Q5RK

The first "Top Customer Review" says:

[riffle bolded]

Um, Kirk, that's not how customer reviews work.  If you helped make the thing, you're not a customer.  Ugh.

Another review:

One can hope.

Okay, now I'm confused. Doesn't Amazon have rules about creators or other people directly involved in a work making reviews for said work? What Kirk did seems unethical, but I can't say I'm surprised since he also told his followers to go see his awful "Saving Christmas" movie to artificially boast ticket sales, and I suppose he was doing the same for this mess.

[FloraKitty35]

I guess Kirk forgot about that whole "thou shalt not bear false witness" deal.

[roddma]

Little OT but Speaking of claiming to be Native American, I recall there was a big uproar over Shania Twain's heritage. She claimed Jerry Twain , who was part Ojibwa Indian, to be her bio dad but he was her step-dad.
Anyhow who gave Kirk so much power to fire a co-star?

[Jana814]

7 minutes ago, roddma said:

Anyhow who gave Kirk so much power to fire a co-star?

I think he threatened to quite the show if she wasn't fired. 

[nastyhobbitses]

19 hours ago, anjulibai said:

The most recent thing I saw Sean Astin in was for an app for a game having to do The Hobbit. Guy must be hard pressed for money. 

I think a lot of it is that he's not Leading Man Handsome, and there are plenty of younger/more marketable actors who have his look and fit his acting niche (determined underdog in drama/funny sidekick in comedy). He was pretty good on 24 and he was awesome in LOTR, but his career has been at a standstill for at least a decade. I really, really hope he just took this project for the paycheck and doesn't actually believe in this crap. Hell, Sir Laurence Olivier made a propaganda film for the Moonies, but he was very, very clear about the fact that he was doing it for the money.

[catlady]

Yes, Totally off-topic, but Kirk always makes me think of Captain Banana, so this morning i introduced Mr. CatLady to the one and only Ray Comfort and his infamous banana video.   A small part of his brain exploded at Ray's idiocy, and then he proceeded to fall over laughing at all of the unintentional innuendo.

OK, back to Kirk and his racist atrocities......