Kirk Cameron to Produce Pro-slavery Audio Drama

[DomWackTroll]

4 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I don't know the whole story of what he was like before, but given how much of a bigoted, narcissistic, ignorant asshole he is now, I don't think religion "changed" Kirk Cameron so much as gave him a platform and a candy coating for all the horrible things he already believed. 

Exactly. Some people are just born with the personality of a zealot. Kirk reminds me sooo much of Tom Cruise: the total lack of self awareness; the disrespect for anyone with differing views; the wild-eyed lashing out when confronted with inconvenient parts of his theology; the irresistible urge to proselytize and convert; and the insistence that his life is AMAZING and that everyone's life could be AMAZING if they would just shut up and listen.  

[docmom]

14 hours ago, older than allosaurs said:

But even if I granted him the "colorblind" issue, how about Henty's views on color-coded intelligence and civilization? Does Cameron think his biracial children get their IQ from the white side? I have a hard time even typing this.

I'm pretty sure my mixed-race son, captain of his school's math team, gets most of his math skills from his black dad, the Harvard math major.

For supposedly patriotic Americans who value "liberty" above all else, the defense of slavery is particularly galling.

[Four is Enough]

This is perhaps the most egregious thing I've heard recently. How can anyone with a brain or a conscience think that promoting slavery would be anything but awful!

[QuiverDance]

18 hours ago, formergothardite said:

The Bates won't because they have learned to hide their racism. The Duggars might be stupid enough to do it. 

I am willing to bet the Bates do not even realize they are racist and would be genuinely shocked to be characterized that way, as would a lot of people from all different faiths and not-faiths.  It is difficult for me to explain this without sounding like I condone it, becaue I don't, but some of those attitudes are so ingrained that they perpetuate themselves amongst otherwise good, educated, kind, and even accepting people, and I am ashamed to say that I had to be removed from that kind of self-perpetuating attitude for many years to realize that I had grown up as part of it and acted accordingly.  You have to know something is wrong and understand WHY it is wrong before you can acknowledge it is wrong and adjust your behavior.  

Recently when the New Orleans City Council voted to remove Confederate monuments from prominent places in the city, people I otherwise like and admire and consider good people LOST THEIR COLLECTIVE SHIT on social media.  It is really sad.  

As for Kirk Cameron, he can DIAF.  He is disgusting, and it is pathetic that he has a platform for his ignorant bullshit.

[nastyhobbitses]

44 minutes ago, docmom said:

I'm pretty sure my mixed-race son, captain of his school's math team, gets most of his math skills from his black dad, the Harvard math major.

For supposedly patriotic Americans who value "liberty" above all else, the defense of slavery is particularly galling.

Ah, but it's liberty for people who look like Kirk Cameron! Everyone else is a sinner or an inferior being who deserves to be enslaved!

Also, every time I hear about math teams, all I can think is "You can't join the Mathletes! That's social suicide!"

[Crocoduck]

16 hours ago, older than allosaurs said:

Here's a good place to start: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/christian-evangelical-adoption-liberia

Thank you for this. This article should come with trigger warnings. The actions of some of the adoption agencies and adopting families is so FUBAR it's unimaginable. This quote perfectly embodies what I was initially trying to get at:

Quote

"The ultimate purpose of human adoption by Christians," author Dan Cruver wrote in his 2011 book, Reclaiming Adoption, "is not to give orphans parents, as important as that is. It is to place them in a Christian home that they might be positioned to receive the gospel."

[refugee]

6 hours ago, Leftitinmysnood said:

Art Robinson is a wingnut, John Birch society, ran for state senate (I think) in Oregon. One of his sons married a Seppi daughter. He had some donors in common with Ted Cruz.

Sheesh. I was so ignorant in those days. (Beg pardon. Still ignorant. But trying.) Had I known the "John Birch" at the very least, way back when he was peddling his 1000-books (or however many it was) I wouldn't have touched his stuff with a 10 foot pole. All I could see was a whole library of books for my insatiable reader at a cost I could afford, and people I trusted were telling me it was all "high quality" stuff.

I'm not sure how many of the books we went through, but it ended up being a small percentage, not even a tithe's worth. We did have some discussions about how society had changed since the 1800s, and how demeaning the books from that time were towards certain classes and peoples, versus how things ought to be. But it's a poor excuse for me not vetting our resources more carefully.

I wish I had pre-read some of the books from his curriculum before handing the kid the carte blanche... I just couldn't keep up with my avid reader. In the same vein (on the topic of giving a kid books without having read them first), I later brought home several Game of Thrones books on the recommendation of a trusted friend, and kid was not mature enough for them, the first time kid tried to read them (emotionally, that is, as a young teen who'd been reading on a college level since age six). Now, of course, they're on the favorites shelf. I still haven't found time to read them, though I have plowed through a couple of Brandon Sanderson's books at teen's recommendation.

[formergothardite]

48 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

I am willing to bet the Bates do not even realize they are racist and would be genuinely shocked to be characterized that way, as would a lot of people from all different faiths and not-faiths.  It is difficult for me to explain this without sounding like I condone it, becaue I don't, but some of those attitudes are so ingrained that they perpetuate themselves amongst otherwise good, educated, kind, and even accepting people, and I am ashamed to say that I had to be removed from that kind of self-perpetuating attitude for many years to realize that I had grown up as part of it and acted accordingly.  You have to know something is wrong and understand WHY it is wrong before you can acknowledge it is wrong and adjust your behavior.  

Recently when the New Orleans City Council voted to remove Confederate monuments from prominent places in the city, people I otherwise like and admire and consider good people LOST THEIR COLLECTIVE SHIT on social media.  It is really sad.  

As for Kirk Cameron, he can DIAF.  He is disgusting, and it is pathetic that he has a platform for his ignorant bullshit.

Oh, I'm sure they don't consider themselves racists, most racists don't. Most racists get deeply insulted when their racism is pointed out to them. I live in the South, I know all about the deeply ingrained racism and the glorification of slavery/The Old South. 

The thing about the Bates, though, is that I'm pretty sure they haven't actually adopted non-racist beliefs, they just realized they need to be less public about them. We aren't going to see or hear them praising the Confederacy or having a "Patriot Room" devoted only to the Confederacy, because they know how to put on a good show and they know that people consider these their beliefs as racist. So if the Bates support this, we aren't going to see or hear about it. The Duggars are way less media savvy and might actually support it publicly. 

[refugee]

1 hour ago, DomWackTroll said:

Exactly. Some people are just born with the personality of a zealot. Kirk reminds me sooo much of Tom Cruise: the total lack of self awareness; the disrespect for anyone with differing views; the wild-eyed lashing out when confronted with inconvenient parts of his theology; the irresistible urge to proselytize and convert; and the insistence that his life is AMAZING and that everyone's life could be AMAZING if they would just shut up and listen.  

That is a great comparison! I've had that impression but it never materialized to the point where I could articulate it. Good job, putting it into words.

1 hour ago, docmom said:

I'm pretty sure my mixed-race son, captain of his school's math team, gets most of his math skills from his black dad, the Harvard math major.

For supposedly patriotic Americans who value "liberty" above all else, the defense of slavery is particularly galling.

Ah, but it's only liberty for property-owning males of European descent. Didn't you get the memo?

[Imagine20]

3 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

I wish the Gone with the Wind mythology of the happy slave would die once and for all. There were many passive acts, lots of ground glass in food, that kind of thing, where "smiling" slaves made their unhappiness clear. 

**sorry I can't fix this quote formatting,  I'm on my phone**

I had a Russian TA in a women's studies class in college and myself and a couple of other students were chatting with her and someone asked why she chose to go to school in South Carolina. Her answer was that she watched Gone with the Wind and everyone looked so happy. That happy slave myth isn't just something Americans might believe. 

As for racists not realizing they're racists, I don't think that's true for everyone. I think some people wear the racist badge with honor, like Maurice Bessinger did or any member of white supremacist group.

Then there are those who probably don't realize they're racist and how offensive they can be to others.

This page has a transcript of a sermon by Bob Jones that shows how some Christians can use the Bible to make the case for slavery and segregation: http://www.drslewis.org/camille/2013/03/15/is-segregation-scriptural-by-bob-jones-sr-1960/

We have so far to go in this country, and people like KC are just holding us back.

[QuiverDance]

4 minutes ago, Imagine20 said:

As for racists not realizing they're racists, I don't think that's true for everyone. I think some people wear the racist badge with honor, like Maurice Bessinger did or any member of white supremacist group.

 

It definitely is NOT true for everyone, but I also know that it is more and more unacceptable to do so in circles where it would have been completely acceptable, even 10 years ago. And I fully recognize that the Bates have stepped in it.   Allowing their Nathan Bedford Forrest shrine to be shown on national TV was not super smart.  

Then again, I went to a state university named after a Confederate, with a Confederate for a mascot, where all of the buildings on campus are named after Confederates, and I never thought a lick about what that meant at the time because my environment/community did not require or even request that I think about it.  It doesn't mean that I was intentionally indoctrinated into overt racism.  I, and everyone else I ever knew, was produced by a culture where it was so pervasive that it wasn't even given a second thought.  I drove by antebellum mansions, complete with slave cabins on a daily basis, and I never thought about why.  It's really easy to be tone deaf.  

Fortunately, that is changing rapidly, and people are demanding that those vestiges of overt oppression be taken down.  

[CTRLZero]

8 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

I went to a state university named after a Confederate, with a Confederate for a mascot, where all of the buildings on campus are named after Confederates, and I never thought a lick about what that meant at the time because my environment/community did not require or even request that I think about it.

Here is a link outlining a dilemma that Vanderbilt University finds itself in:

http://www.vanderbilthustler.com/news/article_4b8e10d8-4f93-11e5-8218-97730d429152.html

The issue involves changing the name of a building on campus (Confederate Memorial Hall), but the original donors (Daughters of the Confederacy - yes, they exist) are invoking breach of contract and wanting $1 million for the name change.  Vanderbilt University is doing a good job explaining the dilemma - they want to change the name, but who wants to give the Daughters of the Confederacy $1 million?   It will be interesting to see how this is resolved, if it ever is. 

 

[QuiverDance]

5 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

Here is a link outlining a dilemma that Vanderbilt University finds itself in:

http://www.vanderbilthustler.com/news/article_4b8e10d8-4f93-11e5-8218-97730d429152.html

The issue involves changing the name of a building on campus (Confederate Memorial Hall), but the original donors (Daughters of the Confederacy - yes, they exist) are invoking breach of contract and wanting $1 million for the name change.  Vanderbilt University is doing a good job explaining the dilemma - they want to change the name, but who wants to give the Daughters of the Confederacy $1 million?   It will be interesting to see how this is resolved, if it ever is. 

 

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2015/06/28/remnants-confederacy-stir-debate-remembering-nations-past/29431263/

Yes!  The DoC are everywhere.  

[SilverBeach]

Gone with the Wind gives anyone reading it, American or not, a false, sanitized picture of chattel slavery. Yes, there were some slaves who were Stockholm syndromed, there were slaves whose own families were disintegrated and came to identify with the master's family. Perhaps a slave could eek out a few things this way, like getting the master's leftover table scraps instead of eating slop.

Fluck the DOC too.

1 hour ago, Imagine20 said:

As for racists not realizing they're racists, I don't think that's true for everyone. I think some people wear the racist badge with honor, like Maurice Bessinger did or any member of white supremacist group.

Then there are those who probably don't realize they're racist and how offensive they can be to others.

This p

We have so far to go in this country, and people like KC are just holding us back.

George Wallace, Bull Connor,  David Duke, lots of unapologetic racists. Gov. George Wallace underwent a change after he was shot and could no longer walk, repudiating his racist views and actions.

I recall the civil rights struggles of the 60's. I thought there would have been more progress, but even the POTUS is called n@#$%r.

 

[SilverBeach]

Those of you who were Alan Rickman fans, watch Something the Lord Made in honor of Black History Month. A true story, you will learn about Mr. Vivien Thomas, a brilliant Black scientist who pioneered cardiac surgery procedures in the 30s and 40s at Johns Hopkins. I knew nothing about this great man until I saw this movie. Superb movie. Kyra Sedgwick is in it too.

[violynn]

1 minute ago, SilverBeach said:

Those of you who were Alan Rickman fans, watch Something the Lord Made in honor of Black History Month. A true story, you will learn about Mr. Vivien Thomas, a brilliant Black scientist who pioneered cardiac surgery procedures in the 30s and 40s at Johns Hopkins. I knew nothing about this great man until I saw this movie. Superb movie. Kyra Sedgwick is in it too.

YES!!  Such a great movie, it was amazing.

[Jana814]

35 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

Those of you who were Alan Rickman fans, watch Something the Lord Made in honor of Black History Month. A true story, you will learn about Mr. Vivien Thomas, a brilliant Black scientist who pioneered cardiac surgery procedures in the 30s and 40s at Johns Hopkins. I knew nothing about this great man until I saw this movie. Superb movie. Kyra Sedgwick is in it too.

The movie was on HBO on last night. Such a good one!!  I think their portraits are still side-by-side at John Hopkins. 

[refugee]

46 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

Those of you who were Alan Rickman fans, watch Something the Lord Made in honor of Black History Month. A true story, you will learn about Mr. Vivien Thomas, a brilliant Black scientist who pioneered cardiac surgery procedures in the 30s and 40s at Johns Hopkins. I knew nothing about this great man until I saw this movie. Superb movie. Kyra Sedgwick is in it too.

I'll have to look this one up. I first heard of this story through a speech at a high school speech tournament. The speaker's younger sibling had been born with a severe heart defect, and was saved through a technique developed by Mr. Thomas.

ETA: In PBS' new Civil War series, Mercy House, there's a black character who was formerly a doctor/scientist's companion and is now performing menial tasks at the hospital; however, one of the doctors (and maybe the nurse main character? I've missed the last couple episodes) is aware of his background, and somehow manages to sneakily employ him in lifesaving procedures, at great risk, of course, when there's no other way to save a patient. It made me think of Mr. Thomas, and now mention of Mr. Thomas has made me think of Mercy House.

[browncoatslytherin]

that movie is AWESOME. we watched it in my a&p class in college. i hadn't heard of it before then but now i recommend it like crazy because seriously. people. it's awesome.

[Leftitinmysnood]

3 hours ago, refugee said:

Sheesh. I was so ignorant in those days. (Beg pardon. Still ignorant. But trying.) Had I known the "John Birch" at the very least, way back when he was peddling his 1000-books (or however many it was) I wouldn't have touched his stuff with a 10 foot pole. All I could see was a whole library of books for my insatiable reader at a cost I could afford, and people I trusted were telling me it was all "high quality" stuff.

Well, a lot of us bought the kind of thing he was selling. He had nice shiny ads about having a 1000 volume library at your fingertips and all these fantastic stories about how his wife died and all his were kids all self taught because he was a busy scientist, but he made them read books, give book reports, and do mathematics for their entire curriculum.  They all turned out to be brilliant and got doctorates. (Until he started interfering with their doctoral processes during his congressional campaign. http://www.gazettetimes.com/news/local/defeated-candidate-art-robinson-contends-osu-engaged-in-political-payback/article_16c20890-493b-11e0-b2bb-001cc4c002e0.html).

(My parents didn't buy the curriculum, they were pretty academically minded, but we ran in deep fundie circles for most of my jr. high and high school years. I did try and convince them that I should do nothing but read great books for school, but I wanted to pick my own books and there were a lot more non fiction books on my list.)

[PennySycamore]

Something the Lord Made is not currently on the On Demand schedule for HBO, but you can watch it HBO On the Go or  whatever.  They do have a Black History Month section in their On Demand selections.  I'll keep checking.

[RosyDaisy]

Gov. George Wallace renounced his racist views in order to gain sympathy and to get the black vote. He gave a non-apology that basically said get over it.

[Terrie]

I hate people who romanticize history in the name of "correcting" the historical record. Like "Many families owned only one or two slaves, and they were like members of the family." My history teach's counter to that point was "Yes, much like the family dog." with the appropriate look of disgust. As if it's okay to have slaves as long as you're extra nice to them,

[Cleopatra7]

3 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

Gov. George Wallace renounced his racist views in order to gain sympathy and to get the black vote. He gave a non-apology that basically said get over it.

It's my impression that George Wallace was always a political chameleon, even more so than most politicians. Early in his career, he was considered a political moderate, who seldom mentioned race, and wanted to focus on modernizing Alabama. However, he soon realized that no one cared about pragmatic issues in civil rights-era Alabama, and his popularity skyrocketed when he began aggressively pushing a segregationist agenda. Then when that stance no longer worked, he went back to his former quasi-moderate position, claiming he had an "epiphany" about race relations. Wallace is a good example of why seeing racism as a "personal sin" is ineffective. It does not appear like Wallace was bigoted in his everyday relations with blacks and even used his authority to open doors for some of his black friends. However, he used his public persona to advocate for policies that disadvantaged and disenfranchised blacks as a group, especially those who didn't have the good fortune to have a white patron to help them out. Wallace may have been "personally opposed" to racism, but had no problem with structual racism if it could get him in office.

[EmiGirl]

I posted this is in the wrong thread last night.

 

The difference in Bible slavery and "modern" slavery is  in the Bible that they are defending is a Jewish man would sell himself and his family to another Jewish man (not that it's okay, but that's how it was). The owner was obligated to provide adequate shelter and provisions for his slaves and then they were released every time the Year of Jubilee came around (every 50 years). So it was never meant to be a lifetime arrangement and not against the will of the person becoming a slave (except a woman who wouldn't have had a choice). 

It also NEVER endorses taking a person as a slave just because of where he comes from or the color of his skin.