Lori Alexander - Still Not Learning A Thing, Part 5

[Florita]

28 minutes ago, usmcmom said:

Ken and Lori (and their ilk) have such a gleeful attitude about spanking.  They talk about each incident as if it was a victory for them. They don't just say "spanking in moderation worked for us," but they hammer it home as if it's the one and only way to deal with children and it's the one and only way to guarantee salvation for the whole family.  I could understand if they did numerous posts of basic discipline of children and the need to shape them into respectful members of society. But it is spanking...spanking ONLY...that makes a child Godly, in their minds. I just don't get their desire to not only force parents into such cruel forms of discipline but also to be so boastful about their love of spanking. I cannot even address their using a leather strap on an infant as they change their diapers. These people seem to search the Bible for "permission" to be cruel and they apparently like to err on the side of cruelty where most parents really strive to err on the side of gentleness and mercy. 

Also, hasn't Ken mentioned that they really only follow the New Testament? The scripture they use for spanking is from the Old Testament.  They cling to that scripture like they cling to the verses in Titus.  I have to wonder if their Bible is very tiny and contains only two passages.

I've heard some theologians (who search for the gentleness instead of the cruelty) suggest that the "rod" is an illustration of the rod (or staff) a shepherd uses. He does not use that to beat the sheep, but to guide them and pull them back onto the right path - thus teaching them discipline and the need to follow the one who is responsible for keeping them safe.  But, that way takes a little more time and patience, whereas a leather strap on a tiny bare thigh requires no patience.  It's over quickly so that parents like Lori can get back to their quiet time. 

 

Lori has also used Hebrews 12 to support hitting babies. Take a look at this gem from January 31, 2012: Allowing Children Pain:

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Since I didn't give my children drugs when they had a fever, I was a bad mother.  Since I gave my children a few whacks on the bottom when they disobeyed me, I was a bad mother.  I get it.  Some people think that children should never experience pain.  The Bible teaches differently ~

If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not?  But if you be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are you bastards, and not sons.

Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us,and we gave them reverence : shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?  For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 

Now no chastening for the present seems to be joyous, but grievous:nevertheless afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby .  Hebrews 12:7-11

I allowed my children to suffer at times, because I loved them.  Yes, if they broke their arm and were in extreme pain, I would give them Tylenol.  If they had a fever, however,  I would try to make them as comfortable as possible without trying to bring their fever down, because I knew that the fever is a good thing that kills the sickness in their bodies. {If the fever had ever become dangerously high, I would have given them Tylenol and taken them to the doctor.  I am not stupid.}

I smacked them on the bottom a few times when they disobeyed me so they would obey me.  It worked!  When a baby bit me when nursing, I flicked their cheek once.  They never bit me again.  It worked!  Pain is a great teacher.

 

Lori to her children: "Suck it up, buttercup!" Cuz she's a loving mother.

[OnceUponATime]

11 minutes ago, usmcmom said:

I just don't get their desire to not only force parents into such cruel forms of discipline but also to be so boastful about their love of spanking.

See, I could get it a bit if they really taught spanking is just one of the tools in the discipline toolkit when raising your children. I would still disagree but I wouldn't find it quite as bad. They aren't even spanking/twigging/flicking/slapping their babies as a form of discipline. It is to 'train them'. . As per lori (in her comments):

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They weren't using this method to discipline their 5 month old but to train her.

 

 

[Florita]

Another Lori gem, Twenty Years of Pain (December 28, 2011). How Lori views pain when she’s on the receiving end:

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Twenty years of being extremely ill was very difficult.

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So two years ago from this upcoming February, I finally got out of bed and have started enjoying life. Just in time to see Ryan get married, have a baby, and Alyssa get married!

Do the math. Lori finally felt she was out of pain in February 2010, so the pain must have started in 1990 (20 years prior). From 1990 to 2010 she claims she was basically “in bed.” Their kids were born in the 80s - she wasn’t there for any of them in their childhood. She didn’t raise her kids, the nanny and Ken did. When no one else was around to help the only discipline her pain-addled brain could think of was to hit them. Redirection was too exhausting.

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I still have to be very careful with my neck.  I can't lift heavy things or I suffer, but overall I am so much better that I have been in many years.  In fact, my children didn't even know my true personality until I got better.  They didn't know I was a happy, talkative person like I am today!  All they knew was a mother in a lot of pain...But God is so good.  He has definitely restored the years that the locusts have eaten.

I believe the children were taught that Mommy is very, very sick and they must be on their best behavior in front of her at all times. I doubt she knows her children very well at all. She sees and hears a carefully scripted version of their lives.

She looks at the years spent in pain as if they were “eaten by locust” – in other words, a plague that stole her life. But for her children, pain is necessary to build good character. It's sadistic.

[formergothardite]

I spent time with my five month old nephew yesterday and I can't even imagine thinking of hitting him. He is just a tiny baby who has no concept of what he is doing when he waves his hands about and spits happily at everyone. What has to go through a persons mind to think a baby needs hitting? 

[Hisey]

I can see how they think the Bible condones spanking. Fine. It's not my thing, but if you believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God, and you read it, it does seem to give the OK to some corporal punishment.

But Jesus and his disciples preached kindness, compassion, love and respect to others.  So a follower of Jesus would do everything to AVOID having to spank, just as he might avoid having to go to war, or avoid having to be estranged from a difficult person. So spanking would be a last-ditch effort kind of thing, after you'd tried kinder and more respectful ways of discipline.

Instead, they start spanking a tiny creature who has only been on this earth a few months. Who was a fetus earlier in the year. Who knows, did Lori spank her kids in-utero, too? "Oh, Ken, he's kicking again, after I specifically told him 'no.' Let's whack this part of my stomach, not to discipline him, but to train him."

[Koala]

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I had friends that when we visited together, they were continually running around behind their small child to make sure they were not touching something they shouldn't touch and moving things out of their way {rearranging my stuff} while I sat there and simply told my child "no" and they stopped. It is a much more pleasant way to live. I wasn't going to be ruled by my child and my child was happier with boundaries.

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First of all, it's not kind or discreet for Lori to gossip about her friends online.  Shaming others in order to elevate oneself hardly seems like something a Godly Mentor should be doing.

Secondly, her friends were doing the right thing.  A child has a small developmental window where you have to watch pretty much everything they do to keep them safe.  

You know that sacrifice that Lori's always prattling on about?  That's part of it.  So is getting up in the middle of the night with your infant instead of letting them cry it out.  So is  holding your crying baby instead of passing them off to a nanny. These are sacrifices most mothers gladly make, but Lori was never willing to.  The standards she passes off as "godly" always lead back to one thing: What was easiest for Lori.  She's lazy.  She didn't want to be bothered with a baby, but Ken demanded that she have at least 2 or work instead.

Lori may have found hitting her kids with a stap "a pleasant way to live", but most mothers would find it repugnant.  

Also, are we to believe that Lori's children sat like little robots when the visited others?  If not, how was she able to know with certainty that her children weren't getting into something dangerous?

 

[AlwaysDiscerning]

Notice in her post today its about the poor conditions her parents had to live in, how they started with so little. She had to refer to them because it was never that way for her and therefore she can't possibly relate. And then she picks this kitchen picture from a very upscale house. Why not pick a condemned building and show how to make that beautiful? If anyone is familiar with Lady Lydia , you  might recall a post where she put dresses on dish soap bottles, because oh the horror of a naked dish soap bottle!! Maybe that is what people in crappy apartments need!

And, yes, wow about the women entertaining themselves online!! As if she doesn't do that all day. 

[Sera's Arrow]

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Why would we think the "doctors" of our age would be wiser than the Word of God? Never!

The Word of God was originally penned around the same time where people treated things like mental illness by boring a hole in the skull to release the evil spirits within and medicine came down to 'here, eat these herbs, they might kill you but they'll dull the pain somehow, right?' or 'DEMONS! BANISH THE DEMONS!'. That's why...   

[Koala]

I hope Lori's pregnant daughter and daughter in law will take a long, hard look at what Lori says on her blog and really think about whether that's how they want their babies treated.

This is a woman who believes a baby is capable of manipulation.  She believes that a child not even a year old can "disobey" her.  She refuses to childproof her house because hitting the baby is easier.  She flicks cheeks and hits with leather straps.  She rushed to her blog to gleefully recount the story of her son force feeding her granddaughter.  

I can't even imagine that anyone would find her a suitable caregiver.  I'll go as far as to say that I'd never even consider letting  her near my child if she were their grandmother, much less let her babysit. 

For those who haven't read the force feeding story:

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Emma, my granddaughter, would love to be the boss. Most children would love to be the boss if they could. Ryan, my son, made Emma's breakfast this morning. He started feeding it to her. After one bite she said, "No!"  Ryan made her eat at least 20 bites between her crying. He doesn't want her to get her way and become a picky eater. He is a very smart daddy.

 

Erin, Emma's mother, told me that when they eat dinner, Emma begs for their food. Ryan didn't like that so he set a blanket down and made Emma sit on it with her toys and books while they ate. For a week, she would just sit there and scream. Then she would just cry.  Now when he lays the blanket down, she crawls over to it and plays happily while they eat.  She knows her daddy is boss and means what he says.

http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2012/06/emma-isnt-boss.html

[usmcmom]

Erin, Emma's mother, told me that when they eat dinner, Emma begs for their food. Ryan didn't like that so he set a blanket down and made Emma sit on it with her toys and books while they ate. For a week, she would just sit there and scream. Then she would just cry.  Now when he lays the blanket down, she crawls over to it and plays happily while they eat.  She knows her daddy is boss and means what he says.

That story about Emma makes me ill.  If one did not know that Emma was a child, the above paragraph might lead one to believe that Lori's abusive son was merely training a dog. 

I have tried a thousand times to understand what is so wrong with a child wanting to try her parents' food.  A baby does not show interest in others' food until they are several months old. That is a sign that they are starting to show interest and a readiness to begin something besides breast milk, formula or baby food.  If a child is old enough to "beg" for food, why not use that opportunity to place her in her highchair and join family meal times. Give her the same meal, or don't , but at least get her used to sitting with the family and nibbling on age appropriate foods.  Can you imagine the fear and confusion their poor children feel when they finally ARE allowed to sit at the table?!?  And just to add another level of disgust to the story...I believe this is the couple who has recently had their third victim child.

Also, after force feeding a child who clearly is not hungry, do they then turn around and fat shame this child when she's a teenager for "carrying an extra five pounds"?  What is with this family and their control issues with food?!?

[OnceUponATime]

@usmcmom - I was just writing exactly that but you worded it so much better.

but I think you mean their control issues in general. the training of children is all so that parents are in control too.

What I do not understand is why she has so many positive comments on her blog. I get that 99% of the negative ones won't get through unless ken is willing to step in but I don't understand all the 'lori is so godly, she is so wise' people.

[SunnyAndrsn]

I might not be as smart as Lori, but it would seem that feeding a small child her parent's food when she's showing interest in it would be a great way to help them avoid being a picky eater.  

[usmcmom]

27 minutes ago, SunnyAndrsn said:

I might not be as smart as Lori, but it would seem that feeding a small child her parent's food when she's showing interest in it would be a great way to help them avoid being a picky eater.  

And you can imagine what happens to picky eaters in those households. I wonder how many lashes with the leather strap a child gets for disliking peas. 

[smittykins]

1 hour ago, usmcmom said:

And you can imagine what happens to picky eaters in those households. I wonder how many lashes with the leather strap a child gets for disliking peas. 

I shudder to think how many lashes *I* would have gotten in that household.  I have always hated peas and still do to this day(the smell alone makes me want to hurl).

[zebra #13]

2 hours ago, smittykins said:

I shudder to think how many lashes *I* would have gotten in that household.  I have always hated peas and still do to this day(the smell alone makes me want to hurl).

Well, we know that tossing your raisins on the floor will get you at least four hours of lashing. . . .  (And you're begged to pity the parents doing the lashing, as it's exhausting work. . . . )

[Sera's Arrow]

I keep on wondering about something that has revolved around in my head since I first stumbled upon the ongoing saga of 'Always Ignorant'. Lori has said that she had babies so she could quit teaching but her vemonous attitude towards children and how she promotes physical pain as a viable form of discipline and enables those who do causes me to believe that she was fired for hitting one of her students. That or she never was a teacher and is making that shit up. I'm still up in the air about it all.

She just seems so quick to justify it and well, her comments to this one reader in regards to laws against spanking is unbelievable. From Wimpy, Cowardly Parenting down near the bottom ...

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 I agree that discipline is extremely important for children. I have 4 - aged 12, 11, 9 and 3. They are all obedient, and Mr 3 is getting there. But here in NZ (and some other countries too, I believe) it is actually illegal to spank children. Police do have the power to choose not to prosecute if the spanking was very minor, but there is still an investigation and a lot of stress put on the family.

Lori

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Yes, as the government gets bigger, the more our freedoms disappear and they decide what is better for the children instead of the parents. It's sad and the results are going to be terrible. It always has been and it always will be. A nation that wants its government to control everything so they can have "free" things is destined for destruction. 

Working mothers should not work, gays should be not be gays, women should bear babies until they die and be gentle little flowers to their husbands to avoid being abused. Oh, and remember to beat out any hint of rebellion in your infants, they are plotting like supervillains and they must be stopped!

Did I miss any other examples of forcing people to submit and do things against their will because Lori says so? What she believes is the complete opposite of freedom, FFS.

[Koala]

She is so rude to her readers.  I don't know how they stand her.  This is the woman who pondered whether her life could be defined by the lovely things she does.   Pffftttt...hardly.

Reader:

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How can we not repent? I thought repent meant to feel sorry for what was said or done and to change.

Lori:

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Did you not read my post? Repentance is turning from our sin and turning to Christ. It is becoming a new creature in Christ who is righteous and freed from sin. We are now called saints and have eternal life. Being sorry for what you said or did is not the repentance that the Bible speaks about. I mentioned what you are talking about in the post: "If we sin against someone, we quickly apologize to them and ask for forgiveness {Matthew 5:23}. If we have a sin in our life, we confess it to others and pray we'll be healed from it {James 5:16}."

 

Actually Lori, she's right:

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re·pent·ance

rəˈpentəns/

noun

the action of repenting; sincere regret or remorse.

While I am sure sincere regret or remorse is not something Lori can relate to, those of us with a conscience actually feel it when we've done something wrong.  It's a side effect of having a heart, so Lori has absolutely nothing to worry about.

Just because Lori has changed the definition of a word to make it fit her worldview, doesn't mean her readers have to accept it as gospel truth.

[OnceUponATime]

I have no idea what she means by "Christians often speak of living a life of repentance". is that a recent catchphrase? because I don't recall having heard it before, and I also don't know what they would mean if they said it. Apparently it is something martin luther said though.And now I'm listening to sermons trying to figure this out.

I also think she takes james 5:16 out of context about being "healed from your sin". Maybe I fail at reading the bible though - it has been a while

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13 Is anyone among you in trouble? Let them pray. Is anyone happy? Let them sing songs of praise. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective.

Lori is bad for me: first I was reading the bible, now I'm listening to sermons

 

[OnceUponATime]

And the gospel according to Lori states:

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I don't want to add to what His Word clearly states.

[molecule]

I almost had hopes for today's post--until I actually read it, of course.

I have heard people use this expression ("a life of repentance") before, and it always refers to a state of the heart being attuned to God's will.

In her last paragraph, she says this:

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Yes, we are sorry when we sin but then we remember that He cleansed us from all unrighteousness, we are dead and freed from sin and we thank Him once again for the marvelous work He performed in us on the day that we repented and believed in His finished work for us! This is what we should be focused upon instead of living a life of repentance.

In other words, we are freed from the sins of our past and can move forward. However, it isn't like we stop being sinners (which she goes on to say after this bit I quoted). Living a life of repentance means that we live in a way that helps us see our sin, acknowledge it as sin, and turn away from it. It doesn't mean you keep apologizing for past sin; it means you apologize for, regret, and try not to repeat new sin in your life.

I don't use this expression much and haven't given it much thought, but I think that both what Lori says and what she is arguing against are equally valid ways of understanding repentance.

I'm really curious as to why she is writing about this. It isn't on her usual menu, so I wonder what bee got in her bonnet to provide the inspiration for it.

 

[OnceUponATime]

3 minutes ago, molecule said:

so I wonder what bee got in her bonnet to provide the inspiration for it.

ken told her to repent some sin

[refugee]

7 hours ago, Sera's Arrow said:

I keep on wondering about something that has revolved around in my head since I first stumbled upon the ongoing saga of 'Always Ignorant'. Lori has said that she had babies so she could quit teaching but her vemonous attitude towards children and how she promotes physical pain as a viable form of discipline and enables those who do causes me to believe that she was fired for hitting one of her students. That or she never was a teacher and is making that shit up. I'm still up in the air about it all.

She just seems so quick to justify it and well, her comments to this one reader in regards to laws against spanking is unbelievable. From Wimpy, Cowardly Parenting down near the bottom ...

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Lori

Working mothers should not work, gays should be not be gays, women should bear babies until they die and be gentle little flowers to their husbands to avoid being abused. Oh, and remember to beat out any hint of rebellion in your infants, they are plotting like supervillains and they must be stopped!

Did I miss any other examples of forcing people to submit and do things against their will because Lori says so? What she believes is the complete opposite of freedom, FFS.

Husbands should be forced to work two or even three jobs to support their single-income families, if they are not a part of the professional (doctor, lawyer, engineer, CPA) class; husbands and wives should be shamed encouraged by those around them if the wife goes out to work, even part time, even when the kids are teens, to take some of the pressure off.

[Florita]

51 minutes ago, molecule said:

I'm really curious as to why she is writing about this. It isn't on her usual menu, so I wonder what bee got in her bonnet to provide the inspiration for it.

 

Lent. Yesterday was Ash Wednesday and the old school Christians (Catholics, Lutherans etc) are observing a time of repentance, penance and fasting. Lori objects.

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I would rather spend my time seeking those things above, dwelling on the good and lovely, and thanking the Lord for who I am in Him and that I can do ALL things through Christ who strengthens me instead of thinking about my sin continually. That is a depressing way to live.

Lori does't like thinking of her sins, so she doesn't. Too depressing! She even thanks the Lord for making her who she is - rather than thanking Him for what He has done.

Of course none of her readers subscribe to her highly unorthodox teaching, but that doesn't stop her. She wants them to listen to HER, not to their church or to their husband. This post was intended to produce defiance, but since she doesn't sin, she is completely blind to it.

[Koala]

The funny thing is, Lori has posted lots of times about repentance:

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"Lovelessness between a husband and a wife must be repented of because it is a serious sin...It is the same as lovelessness between Christ and the church which must be repented of.  A marriage reflects the image of Christ and His church and we must not mar that image.  We must keep the covenant we made before God to love our spouse no matter what."

Here's a whole post on it: http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2014/09/repenting-of-your-controlling-ways.html

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Now, if you have figured out that you need to obey God and become a godly, submissive wife who stops trying to control your husband and obeys him instead, the first thing you need to do is repent and tell your husband how sorry you are for making his life miserable. Repentance actually means to do a one eighty and go in the complete opposite direction.

I could go on, but needless to say, Lori is contradicting herself again.

**Of note** not a single fan girl chiming in today.  Her readers unanimously disagree with her so far.

Oh, and I lol'd about her not adding to the Bible.  Really Lori?

[OnceUponATime]

To Lori's:

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Do you believe that every time you sin after you do this you become unrighteous again? Of course not! Once we repent and believe, we are made righteous, period! It's a wonderful thing! We are cleansed from all sin past, present and future.

I raise her this: (Hebrews 10)

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26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

I actually would like to see her tackle that passage - What does it mean Lori/Ken?