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Lori Alexander - Still Not Learning A Thing, Part 5


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5 hours ago, Koala said:

My sister was told that the chickenpox vaccine was created for the convenience of working mothers who couldn't afford to take 2 weeks off work to care for their sick child. 

I actually know some of the developers of the chickenpox vaccine quite well and the reason they developed it was they didn't want kids to suffer from a preventable illness and they were sick of watching their young patients with leukemia die from one.

The convenience of working mothers wasn't mentioned at all.

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Although I have to ask, what's so wrong with moms not having to take time off work?(I got chickenpox at 10--long before the vaccine--and Mom didn't take time off; she had my sitter come to my house, instead of me going to hers.)

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There's a kid I work with (let's call 'em 'Kid') and let me say that the physical punishment that Lori and her Glee Club of Baby Terror promote would NEVER work on Kid. You know what does? Explaining and reasoning using verbal communication. Shocking, I know. When Kid is wrapped up in their play, it's hard to pull them away - even for meals or washroom routine. The best solution is to explain that it's time for lunch or time to go to the washroom and provide a box for the Kid to use to store all the toys they were using away. Kid will put away all their toys quite happily and do what you asked them to do. Easy-peasy. Hauling them over without a word doesn't work (as a supply learned one day x_x) so I assume that smacking them when they refuse wouldn't help much either.

What's so difficult with treating kids like they are people? They are people, little people who are developing every single day that passes. I'd rather the kids entrusted in my care learn that people are able to communicate what they want and what they expect, that hitting is NOT okay and that they are safe to play and learn in the environment they are put in. I teach them like I'd teach my own. I don't see any of the above happening if physical discipline was used. I really don't.   
 

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11 minutes ago, Sera's Arrow said:

There's a kid I work with (let's call 'em 'Kid') and let me say that the physical punishment that Lori and her Glee Club of Baby Terror promote would NEVER work on Kid. You know what does? Explaining and reasoning using verbal communication. Shocking, I know. When Kid is wrapped up in their play, it's hard to pull them away - even for meals or washroom routine. The best solution is to explain that it's time for lunch or time to go to the washroom and provide a box for the Kid to use to store all the toys they were using away. Hauling them over without a word doesn't work (as a supply learned one day x_x) so I assume that smacking them when they refuse wouldn't help much either.

What's so difficult with treating kids like they are people? They are people, little people who are developing every single day that passes.  
 

My dad tells a story of attempting to spank one of my brothers, he said he gave him a solid thump and my brother turned to him, gave him a nasty look, and said "ow!" At that point he realized he would either have to come up with a different discipline method or beat him to death because my brother is incredibly stubborn. thats what Lori doesn't understand, some children probably do fine with spanking as discipline (not beating, there is a difference, Lori, and one doesn't spank on bare, infant skin, you lunatic) while some children will have a complete emotional breakdown over the betrayal of their parents hitting them and some will just dig their heels in until they have received actual physical harm. But, again, this bitch thinks there's only one personality type and any kid who dares not fit that mold needs to be hammered on until they do. Ignorant twat (Lori, not Sera's arrow, in case that wasn't clear, Lori is a twat)

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@Mrsaztx I appreciate the added clarification at the end though it was pretty clear to me so no worries from this end. : ) Hah. I was one of those kids that could never be swayed by threats of pain or actual spankings. Being smacked never hurt but the frowny faces from my mum and dad when I did something wrong was enough to make me feel wretched inside.

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3 hours ago, docmom said:

I actually know some of the developers of the chickenpox vaccine quite well and the reason they developed it was they didn't want kids to suffer from a preventable illness and they were sick of watching their young patients with leukemia die from one.

The convenience of working mothers wasn't mentioned at all.

I was in High School and had never had the chicken pox, when they were talking about the chickenpox vaccine coming out soon.  I was looking forward to it because I had seen the chickenpox and didn't want to suffer through that, especially since I heard it was worse for adults.   I didn't make it, and got them the summer after High School, a year or so before the vaccine.  I was miserable.  I wouldn't wish that on anyone.  

I'm embarrassed to admit that I did NOT want to get my MMR booster at that age.  I thought my mom was crazy to make me get it.  I had quite the argument with my mom over that.  Fortunately, my mom overruled me.  

I'm pretty sure I would have been the first in line for MMR if I had ever seen someone I knew suffering from any of those.  I think the lack of personal experience is what's really driving the diminished vaccine rates.

I promise you, teenaged me could have cared less whether or not my mom had to take two weeks off work (I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have at that age).

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Good lord, I can't believe I'm going to side with this woman...re:varicella vaccine. I have a kid that can't be vaccinated to do a medical condition, and one that has to be on a schedule to synch with meds Kid 1 is on. SO I end up spending a lot of time reading about this shit. One of the reasons the chickenpox vaccine was accepted in our society was because of the impact on mothers taking time of work for illness. Magazines had stories on the impact of the vaccine vs money spent taking time off. At one time (I'm guessing very early on) it was listed in the insert as a reason. 

So while I think this woman is a whack-job hate-monger...she isn't totally wrong about this (but is still probably wrong about the rest of her life). 

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@Shiny I don't doubt it was listed in the "pros" column, kids aren't missing school, parents aren't missing work, both of those are great things. However, it wasn't created with the purpose of saving mothers from having to care for their sick children, and I think that's what Lori is getting at, that it's completely unnecessary and the only purpose it serves is not using up vacation days, that's just a nice side effect

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8 minutes ago, Mrsaztx said:

@Shiny I don't doubt it was listed in the "pros" column, kids aren't missing school, parents aren't missing work, both of those are great things. However, it wasn't created with the purpose of saving mothers from having to care for their sick children, and I think that's what Lori is getting at, that it's completely unnecessary and the only purpose it serves is not using up vacation days, that's just a nice side effect

Gotcha. Yes you are probably correct. 

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3 hours ago, Sera's Arrow said:

There's a kid I work with (let's call 'em 'Kid') and let me say that the physical punishment that Lori and her Glee Club of Baby Terror promote would NEVER work on Kid. You know what does? Explaining and reasoning using verbal communication. Shocking, I know. When Kid is wrapped up in their play, it's hard to pull them away - even for meals or washroom routine. The best solution is to explain that it's time for lunch or time to go to the washroom and provide a box for the Kid to use to store all the toys they were using away. Kid will put away all their toys quite happily and do what you asked them to do. Easy-peasy. Hauling them over without a word doesn't work (as a supply learned one day x_x) so I assume that smacking them when they refuse wouldn't help much either.

What's so difficult with treating kids like they are people? They are people, little people who are developing every single day that passes. I'd rather the kids entrusted in my care learn that people are able to communicate what they want and what they expect, that hitting is NOT okay and that they are safe to play and learn in the environment they are put in. I teach them like I'd teach my own. I don't see any of the above happening if physical discipline was used. I really don't.   
 

    I had a really long response similar to this in the last thread. If we were at the park and one of my three daughters were misbehaving or being rude I could firmly tell them "no" and if it continued put them in a time out or something. My son would absolutely flip his lid at that and create a scene that would cause Lori to gleefully clutch her pearls . I always had to pull him aside and explain things to him, then let him calm down. I am not exaggerating when I say I get complimented on his behavior all the time. The parents of his classmates tell me how much thier child likes him. He figured out he gets lots of attention for being nice and having good manners. Adults in my community praise kids loudly when they show good manners, it makes other kids want praise too. 

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I was the child who at 12 years of age thought it was ok to kick/punch/bite someone else as long as you were retaliating (aka the other person kicked/bit/punched you a few times first). I really did believe this because of how smacking was done at home. My older siblings knew they were believed over me so any time 'we' got in trouble, they would blame me for starting it, I would get smacked, they got off without punishment.
How I learnt that that was not ok? A guy was beating me up and wouldn't stop. I kicked him, he started crying and ran to tell a teacher. well one of my teachers at school spent the time (they didn't need to) to ask me why i thought what I had done was ok? To which i answered "at home the only person who gets in trouble is the person who starts it, so it can't be wrong to fight back." This nice teacher instead of punishing me, explained to me that no matter what it is never ok to get physically violent with someone else, gave me a warning (which included if she ever hears of something again the initial episode will get recorded too) and never mentioned it again.

TL;dr: smacking doesn't always lead to the associations to 'wrong sinful ' behavior that you may wish. be careful.

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I asked some of my friends why they got their kids vaccinated for chiken pox. They all said things along the lines of not wanting their kids to get sick from am illness that can be prevented. My sister said the same. She remembers when we were both very sick when we had the chicken pox (no vaccine back then). No way in hell did she want her kids to go through that.

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The chicken pox vaccine was very new when I asked our kids' doctor about it. I think it had been released just months before. He advised me to wait because he was uncomfortable with unknown side effects of the vaccine. My kids did get chicken pox and, fortunately, they were fairly mild cases. If they were young now, I would vaccinate them just like I did with all the other longstanding vaccines. 

Side note: I was the only one of my mother's four kids who did not have the mumps. The vaccine was released after the older three had them and my mom marched me to the doctor and had me vaccinated as soon as she coould. She said there was no way she would watch another child suffer if she could prevent it. 

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i got the chickenpox around age 4/5, a few years before the vaccine was released in the states, and i was absolutely miserable. i had a high fever, was extremely itchy, and even have a small scar on my forehead left over from the blisters (it's not super noticeable, fortunately, especially if i wear makeup...even if i don't, though, unless you know where it is and and what it looks like so therefore what to look for, it's so faint you'd probably never notice it). i actually fared the best out of my siblings, scarily enough. yeah, i would never want my jellybean to go through that if he doesn't have to.

 

@polecat thanks for the biting during nursing tip, i shall store that little tidbit of info away. :) i also petition a new user title: flicking my child into submission.

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When will these women realize that NOTHING they tell Lori is kept confidential??  Same goes for the chat room.  It's only private when Lori doesn't consider it worth gossiping about.  If she thinks she can use your pain to promote herself as The Godly Mentor, she'll post it in a heartbeat.  If she thinks she can hold you up for ridicule and then watch with glee as her vultures readers devour you, you can just consider yourself tomorrow's blog fodder.  Makes me absolutely sick.  Godly Mentor my ass.  

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2 minutes ago, OnceUponATime said:

@browncoatslytherin "flicking my child baby into submission"

 

true, i forgot, they're supposed to graduate to switches around, what, 2 years old?

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I believe The Godly Monster's weapon of choice was what she referred to as a "leather strap".  A switch is more The Sadistic Pearl's speed.  

I hope all of them end up in nursing homes that treat them just as well as they treated their children.

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I was behind on the previous threads so a few comments from that thread....

First, did Ken get a "jesus phrase of the month" calendar or something?  What's with all the horse of truth stuff? 

Second, remember that Lori gave NO warnings about spousal abuse/domestic violence before Ken's visit here.   After going around for what seemed like an eternity, he finally conceded that there probably should be some kind of warning on the blog.

I think she had a "default" disclaimer up for a while at least.

@Koala I need to talk to you privately and you have PMs turned off.  Can you contact me at fluffybunny@freejinger.org please?   TIA

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9 minutes ago, Curious said:

I was behind on the previous threads so a few comments from that thread....

First, did Ken get a "jesus phrase of the month" calendar or something?  What's with all the horse of truth stuff? 

Second, remember that Lori gave NO warnings about spousal abuse/domestic violence before Ken's visit here.   After going around for what seemed like an eternity, he finally conceded that there probably should be some kind of warning on the blog.

I think she had a "default" disclaimer up for a while at least.

@Koala I need to talk to you privately and you have PMs turned off.  Can you contact me at fluffybunny@freejinger.org please?   TIA

I have had several people tell me that my pms are off.  How do I turn them on? 

 

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11 minutes ago, FundieFarmer said:

I'm surprised Lori didn't recommend spanking the chicken pox straight out of the kids. 

:pb_lol: i almost spit grape juice

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12 minutes ago, FundieFarmer said:

I'm surprised Lori didn't recommend spanking the chicken pox straight out of the kids. 

:laughing-rolling: <- because I couldn't find a snorting laugh. You just brightened my day immensely. Thank you

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11 hours ago, usmcmom said:

The chicken pox vaccine was very new when I asked our kids' doctor about it. I think it had been released just months before. He advised me to wait because he was uncomfortable with unknown side effects of the vaccine. My kids did get chicken pox and, fortunately, they were fairly mild cases. If they were young now, I would vaccinate them just like I did with all the other longstanding vaccines. 

Side note: I was the only one of my mother's four kids who did not have the mumps. The vaccine was released after the older three had them and my mom marched me to the doctor and had me vaccinated as soon as she coould. She said there was no way she would watch another child suffer if she could prevent it. 

A colleague got chicken pox at the age of 30 and wound up in the ICU.  About 30 years ago, shortly before the chicken pox vaccine was introduced, I noticed that the cases of the disease I saw among family and friends were far more severe than what I'd seen as a kid.  Several parents mentioned their kids with bad pox on their genitals. So, even though the vaccine came too late for my child, I'm glad it benefits others.

usmcmom, good for your mother! I had mumps at 11, and it was hell. A guy I know had them at 14, and it badly damaged one of his testicles.

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