Mandatory Fitness

[Curious]

11 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

I don't know why it's bugging you. 

I am aware that fat does not equal lazy. There are, however, studies that show that exercise has an effect on brain function. And it makes sense. Exercise help other organs, why not the brain? 

I don't know why you are taking it so personal. It's not. 

And I said that 10,000 steps isn't a lot for a healthy college student. It's not a lot for anyone who actually walks more than to their house, to their car, to their desk, to the lunch room, to their desk, to their car, to their house, to their couch. 

I personally think this is a pretty cool way to try and get young people moving again. Americans are ridiculously sedentary. I'm not talking about people with disabilities, of course. Just the average US office worker. 

I'm not sure about tying it to grades. It's really easy to forget to put on the fitbit, and I don't know if the new ones are waterproof, but I've destroyed a few myself. 

I'm not taking it personally.   I used a personal example as anecdotal evidence that the suggestion that not being physically active = lower academic standing.   

This is not the only fitness type topic where it sounds a bit like you think fat=lazy.  I'm not sure you've ever come right out and said that, but the insinuation has been there.  That may not be your intent, but it's the way you sometimes come across, IMO.

I don't have much frame of reference for what 10,000 steps looks like given that I haven't  walked more than a few feet at a time since 1997.   It's entirely possible that before I was disabled I routinely walked 10,000+ steps, but that sounds like a lot of "required" steps to me.    The closest thing I could compare to currently is the (recumbent) step machine I use at PT.   So using that as an example, I currently do somewhere between 800-1500 steps in 15 minutes.    I realize that is a pretty wide range.  It depends on where I do the stepper in my PT routine.  The more tired I am the less steps.   Let's say I average 1000 steps in 15 minutes.  For me to do 10,000 steps it would take 2.5 hours, assuming I managed to keep up the 1k/15 minutes rate.

I'm not sure that I spent 2.5 hours walking every day before I was disabled.  Maybe I did when you add up all the things you say: walking to car, to house, around work, etc, but looking back at that time, I'm still a bit dubious about whether I was easily walking 10k steps per day.  Some days, I have no doubt, but daily overall, I kind of doubt it.   Granted I've had back problems since middle school so I may not be the best example, but when I was working/a college student, I don't think I was all that much less active than fellow students/co-workers in terms of walking.

Just some other tidbits:  I have never smoked and I used to drink very minimally and now don't drink at all.

WTF is up with no tea?  You can drink decaf (which also goes for coffee, but I don't drink that).  I'd never last some place I couldn't drink tea.  Forget the rest of the stuff, you will pry my ice tea from my cold dead hands

[OnceUponATime]

I don't think 10,000 steps is something the college pulled out of their own ass. I'm saying this because a few years  ago my work present at the end of the year was one of those crappy step counter things (other years it was things like fire blankets). With it came a booklet stating how 10,000 steps is apparently a healthy fitnessy goal for every day. A quick google search says 10,000 steps comes from japan and was never scientifically based.

As for distance it is apparently 5ish miles. When I was cleaning (standing on my feet all day and walking) I was doing anywhere between 9000 and 14500 steps a day at work. It's doable but not always easy (I like walking).  The most steps I had measured in one day was about 50k which was achieved whilst being a tourist in London(uk).

I'm a bit of a positive reinforcement person and wonder why they don't instead install a bit of friendly competition between the different majors for a trophy of  'best walkers' or something like that.
Yeah - where I used to work held a friendly competition with a similar company the town over to see which company walked the most in a month. Participation was optional (also not fitbit recorded) but most people joined in purely to try and best the other company.

 

[Tarantula_Mom]

When I was in school for my technical degrees, 10,000 steps would've been such a bad joke. Like, bitch, I'm not independently wealthy. I have to put in six hours at work, which is all sitting, then go to your classes, which are all sitting, and then read the damn book. I got two hours to feed my pets and take a shower because I read 3-4X as fast as the average person. Obviously I should've gone to Christian college, if they get 3 hours a day to walk around aimlessly.

[elliha]

13 hours ago, December said:

I've read it's not much better to be standing stationary all day, that it's best to be moving around (bit of sitting, walking, standing) at an office job. One of my former workplaces subsidized people getting those balance ball chairs, but it was optional. That's crazy your old workplace wanted to take away chairs like everyone has the same health needs -- seems like a lawsuit waiting to happen!

We have tables that can be raised and lowered and we can both stand and sit at work which is great but for me it doesn't work to stand up, I get more back pain from standing than sitting. 

[Vex]

What if a student has a disability or chronic pain or something? Are they exempt?

Honestly, I don't even like the idea of mandatory PE in universities. Students are adults who can make their own decisions about physical activities and their own fitness.

They've always been intrusive as hell with their students though, so it's not surprising. It really is unacceptable to monitor the students so closely. What's next - cameras in their dorm rooms?

[browncoatslytherin]

13 minutes ago, Vex said:

What if a student has a disability or chronic pain or something? Are they exempt?

lol you're so funny, all you need is prayer and gumption and through christ, you can do anything!

 

.........

 

sorry bout that puddle of sarcasm on the floor, i'll get that up 

[FundieFarmer]

Guys, 10,000 is Fitbit's recommended number of steps. I'm not kidding you. When you set up your Fitbit, it says that's what your goal should be based on *insert some health org here*'s recommendation. A normal person adjusts it based on what's reasonable for them.

Example: my job is really sedentary, so I set my goal for 6,000, which can really be a struggle on days I don't have my workout class. 10,000 is a downright struggle for me, because I literally stay glued to a monitor all day and because of other health aspects of life, am not always able to be super active when I come home.

So basically ORU is saying, "Buy a Fitbit and measure up to its baseline for everybody." Hopefully they let their students customize it for them, but I have low hopes for that. Getting my Christian college to make allowances for my health concerns was pulling teeth and they weren't as strict as ORU. This is a bit yikes to me.

Shameless plug: if you Fitbit, join us in the Fitbit group!! We have weekly challenges where I do not win but at least it's fun!!

[SpoonfulOSugar]

11 hours ago, Maggie Mae said:

Changing gears for a second. I would have never thought this was an issue. Oru is weird.

http://www.engadget.com/2016/02/04/christian-college-says-mandatory-fitbits-won-t-track-sex/

Several interesting remarks in the comments, but this one is worth sharing:

[nausicaa]

4 hours ago, Vex said:

Honestly, I don't even like the idea of mandatory PE in universities. Students are adults who can make their own decisions about physical activities and their own fitness.

 

This is my issue with it. No one is saying exercise isn't beneficial; I'm a bit of a fitness nut myself. 

I really disagree with the idea that colleges should function as nannies to young adults and teach them how to engage in all aspects of their lives. Part of being an adult in a free society is the right to make decisions that might not be the best for you. 

Studies also show that limiting social media exposure increases happiness and efficiency. Should all students be limited to checking Facebook only twice a week? Eight hours of sleep is also essential for maximum health. So should there be lights out at 10pm every night and no one is allowed to get up before 6am to go for a run?

[browncoatslytherin]

interesting comment. i take it oru students were required to track their activity before, and the fitbit will just make it easier now, i presume? that's the read i'm getting from that.

[Curious]

1 hour ago, browncoatslytherin said:

interesting comment. i take it oru students were required to track their activity before, and the fitbit will just make it easier now, i presume? that's the read i'm getting from that.

I guess this is a boon for the married folks.  They can now have sex count as physical activity and not have to give all the gory details to their professors

[sophie10130]

On 2/3/2016 at 0:58 PM, Crocoduck said:

ORU still very much adheres to the In Loco Parentis university model. They do not consider their students to be independent adults and therefore consider it appropriate to require certain types of dress and try to control free time as much as possible.

I suspect requiring 10,000 steps is a good way to take up a little more free time (and get students to expend some energy that might have gone to sexual thoughts!).

 

2 hours ago, nausicaa said:

This is my issue with it. No one is saying exercise isn't beneficial; I'm a bit of a fitness nut myself. 

I really disagree with the idea that colleges should function as nannies to young adults and teach them how to engage in all aspects of their lives. Part of being an adult in a free society is the right to make decisions that might not be the best for you. 

Studies also show that limiting social media exposure increases happiness and efficiency. Should all students be limited to checking Facebook only twice a week? Eight hours of sleep is also essential for maximum health. So should there be lights out at 10pm every night and no one is allowed to get up before 6am to go for a run?

This is why I'm upset. I've seen a lot of Christian colleges that require a physical education component for graduation. These schools are not like other colleges that most of the general population attend. These colleges have strict curfews, do not allow adult men and women to interact alone even off campus, have strict dress codes for class and walking around campus, will expel students if they are in pictures with alcohol anywhere in the picture, have regulations for hair, make up, piercings, and visible tattoos, have regulations for the types of media they consume (music must be christian, movies must be less than PG-13) etc. Along with the PE requirement, this is high school 1.5. Most of them even regress and are more strict than public high schools.

College for many people is the time to get away from their parents/guardians and live their own life for the first time. It's considered (by me and my peers at least) to be the halfway house to the real world. Students have to do their laundry on their own, make it to classes on their own, pass the classes without handing in homework assignments every day, meet people who challenge their world views, and have new experiences and make mistakes and learn from them on their own. They are given autonomy over their lives for the first time but in a relatively safe environment so that it's safer for them to make mistakes.

These Christian colleges allow their students to continue to live in their bubble until they are 21 or 22 years old (or older) even if they are married!

These people are graduating college as kids still. They are 21, have a college degree, but have never been challenged in their beliefs and have no idea what it means to live in the "real world." They've never been given the kind of freedom needed to know who you are and how you'll react and what it means to have self control.

 

I have a lot of thoughts about this because I grew up with fundie lite friends. I went to a heathen liberal school and they all went to different evangelical christian schools. This is my experience with 3 or 4 (maybe 5 or 6?) different christian colleges, and is not indicative of all christian colleges, obviously.

[Grimalkin]

4 hours ago, nausicaa said:

This is my issue with it. No one is saying exercise isn't beneficial; I'm a bit of a fitness nut myself. 

I really disagree with the idea that colleges should function as nannies to young adults and teach them how to engage in all aspects of their lives. Part of being an adult in a free society is the right to make decisions that might not be the best for you. 

Studies also show that limiting social media exposure increases happiness and efficiency. Should all students be limited to checking Facebook only twice a week? Eight hours of sleep is also essential for maximum health. So should there be lights out at 10pm every night and no one is allowed to get up before 6am to go for a run?

       I understand where you are coming from and this was my first reaction. However as a parent of a high school senior I would be happy if my kid was required to participate in a fitness class when they go off to college, and there were lots of interesting options and opportunities to do things they might not consider trying otherwise. college is a transition into adulthood, I think some sort of fitness class helps foster good habits for life. I took an Ethics class last year and I think that Is a class that could really improve anyone's  life, the idea of thinking decisions through, looking at the big picture, and how it affects other people. A little Nicomachean ethics thrown in and topped with some existentialism. I like to think or hope at least college is not all about what a specific career choice but having a basic understanding of a wide viariety of things that can positively influence your life wherever You end up.  

[Kate11]

2 hours ago, sophie10130 said:

 

This is why I'm upset. I've seen a lot of Christian colleges that require a physical education component for graduation. These schools are not like other colleges that most of the general population attend. These colleges have strict curfews, do not allow adult men and women to interact alone even off campus, have strict dress codes for class and walking around campus, will expel students if they are in pictures with alcohol anywhere in the picture, have regulations for hair, make up, piercings, and visible tattoos, have regulations for the types of media they consume (music must be christian, movies must be less than PG-13) etc. Along with the PE requirement, this is high school 1.5. Most of them even regress and are more strict than public high schools.

 

This! I agree with this so much! I went to a public high school, where I felt I was trusted and treated like an adult, even though I wasn't one yet. Then I went to a small Christian college. I had a curfew for the first time in my life (even when I was in high school my parents trusted me enough that I never had a curfew). We could only have boys in our rooms two nights a week for two hours, the boys had to sign in and we had to keep the doors open and the lights on. If I left for the weekend I had to sign out of the dorm and tell my RA where I was going. If we watched a movie in the dorm lobby it had to be less than PG-13, so it didn't offend the other people who might be walking by, and alcohol was not not allowed for anyone, even if you were over 21. For the first time in my life, I felt that I was not trusted and I hated that feeling. I looked seriously into transfering to a state school the summer after my first year, but I had an awesome scholarship that I would have lost, and it would have taken me an additional year to graduate, so I stuck it out. I moved off campus as soon as I could which really helped. Looking back, if I had the option to do it again, I would have chosen a different college. (I didn't do much research before picking a college)

[desertvixen]

10,000 is not necessarily easy to get, if your life isn't set up so you walk lots of places.  It's easier in the warm months, but when I was stationed in DC it was a pretty easy number to hit, because I could do things like take 15 minutes to walk to the post office - here in KY the PO is like 2 miles away, so not as easy to budget the time for the walk.

Also, not really applicable to a college campus, but a lot of places we've been are NOT set up to be walk-friendly - like the town outside Fort Knox where the major street in town is actually US31W, and there are NO crosswalks.

[Mercer]

10,000 steps wouldn't be difficult for me personally... but that in itself is kind of a problem, and is why I really think any sort of fitness education needs to be individualized.

I could do that many steps without much effort, but it would take time. (I don't run because of a knee injury from a car accident, so I would have to walk or jog it.) My life is busy. If I specifically had to grind out 10,000 steps every day, I probably wouldn't have time to do focused cardio, lift, swim, or pick up an exercise class. In other words, I would have to sacrifice a more challenging fitness activity to have time to do an easier one. That... kind of defeats the purpose of a fitness requirement.

That's why I really think anything like this needs to be one option out several. Students are going to be coming in with different ability levels and different starting activity levels. Treating everyone like they're the same means that not everyone's needs will be met.

[Maggie Mae]

16 hours ago, Curious said:

I'm not taking it personally.   I used a personal example as anecdotal evidence that the suggestion that not being physically active = lower academic standing.   

This is not the only fitness type topic where it sounds a bit like you think fat=lazy.  I'm not sure you've ever come right out and said that, but the insinuation has been there.  That may not be your intent, but it's the way you sometimes come across, IMO.

I don't think that. I think that fat = eating more calories than your body need for a long period of time.

Exercise is good for reasons beyond weight regulation. 

I also don't think that being sedentary = lazy. Lazy = lazy. I am a very lazy person. I only pay my bills on time because of auto-pay, I have filed my taxes in July, I have let my car registration expire and I tend to deal with it months later. I don't do crafts, my holiday decorations are still up, I would rather read FJ and reddit than cook or bake most of the time. I don't know the last time I took library books back on time, so I stopped going to the library. I shove all of my laundry in one load and wash on cold. I could go on. 

 

16 hours ago, Curious said:

I don't have much frame of reference for what 10,000 steps looks like given that I haven't  walked more than a few feet at a time since 1997.   It's entirely possible that before I was disabled I routinely walked 10,000+ steps, but that sounds like a lot of "required" steps to me.    The closest thing I could compare to currently is the (recumbent) step machine I use at PT.   So using that as an example, I currently do somewhere between 800-1500 steps in 15 minutes.    I realize that is a pretty wide range.  It depends on where I do the stepper in my PT routine.  The more tired I am the less steps.   Let's say I average 1000 steps in 15 minutes.  For me to do 10,000 steps it would take 2.5 hours, assuming I managed to keep up the 1k/15 minutes rate.

10,000 steps is roughly five miles. I think the idea behind the requirement is to try and walk more places vs walking. Before fitbit was a thing, my mom's work had pedometer challenges and she was told to do the 10K/5 miles a day; she usually had it before she came home from work, just from walking around doing her job. This was before computers were everywhere. If I do nothing other than go to work (and then sit at my desk), I get about 6K. 4,000 more to me doesn't seem unreasonable, more of a reminder to try and get up and walk around more. But that's me. 

For you, I would think that they would give you a different requirement, seeing as you have physical challenges that make walking more difficult. 

I also believe that Oral Roberts allows people to log other exercise. My fitbit doesn't know when I'm on my bike, so I would have to enter that separately. 

16 hours ago, Curious said:

I'm not sure that I spent 2.5 hours walking every day before I was disabled.  Maybe I did when you add up all the things you say: walking to car, to house, around work, etc, but looking back at that time, I'm still a bit dubious about whether I was easily walking 10k steps per day.  Some days, I have no doubt, but daily overall, I kind of doubt it.   Granted I've had back problems since middle school so I may not be the best example, but when I was working/a college student, I don't think I was all that much less active than fellow students/co-workers in terms of walking.

The average person walks about 3 mph, so 5 miles should take around 1 hour and 40 minutes.  

16 hours ago, Curious said:

Just some other tidbits:  I have never smoked and I used to drink very minimally and now don't drink at all.

WTF is up with no tea?  You can drink decaf (which also goes for coffee, but I don't drink that).  I'd never last some place I couldn't drink tea.  Forget the rest of the stuff, you will pry my ice tea from my cold dead hands

WTF no tea? what could possibly be the purpose of that restriction. 

[refugee]

On 2/4/2016 at 0:52 PM, HereticHick said:

Don't a lot of fundamentalist Christian universities essentially already do that?

For example, the honor code of Brigham Young University (one of the biggest private universities in the US by the way): https://policy.byu.edu/view/index.php?p=26

(snip) ...a matter of personal commitment, the faculty, administration, staff, and students of Brigham Young University, Brigham Young University-Hawaii, BYU-I, and LDS Business College seek to demonstrate in daily living on and off-campus those moral virtues encompassed in the gospel of Jesus Christ, and will:

Be honest

Live a chaste and virtuous life

Obey the law and all campus policies

Use clean language

Respect others

Abstain from alcoholic beverages, tobacco, tea, coffee, and substance abuse

Participate regularly in church services

Observe Dress and Grooming Standards

Encourage others in their commitment to comply with the Honor Code

Specific policies embodied in the Honor Code include (1) the Academic Honesty Policy, (2) the Dress and Grooming Standards, (3) the Residential Living Standards, and (4) the Continuing Student Ecclesiastical Endorsement Requirement. (Refer to institutional policies for more detailed information.)

 

I never would have made it through. I'm a slave to my morning coffee and afternoon tea.

So, do Mormons' tenets allow them chocolate? If so, it seems inconsistent, as chocolate is also a source of caffeine (if that's the reason for the tea/coffee ban).

[SpoonfulOSugar]

44 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

WTF no tea? what could possibly be the purpose of that restriction. 

https://www.mormon.org/faq/law-of-health

Too many individual answers to c/p.  Y'all have at it.

@refugee  To my knowledge, chocolate is allowed.  Someone else may be better informed.

I believe they also do herbal teas, but not 100 percent on that, either.

[Maggie Mae]

1 hour ago, desertvixen said:

Also, not really applicable to a college campus, but a lot of places we've been are NOT set up to be walk-friendly - like the town outside Fort Knox where the major street in town is actually US31W, and there are NO crosswalks.

Or bike friendly. TBH, this is why I try to encourage more people to bike and/or walk. I'm selfish and want more infrastructure built. I also think biking makes me a safer driver, and I am so f'ing sick of distracted drivers.  

[Jingerbread]

I'm against colleges making PE a requirement.  I'm not at all a sedentary person, and did two hours a day all seven days, but as an adult, I would not, and do not, think colleges have any right to be mandating any sort of health requirements on students.  That FitBit requirement should be banned.  I refuse to wear what I don't want to put on my body.  Forced biometrics devices upon my body and forced sharing are violations against my person and right to privacy.

[Maggie Mae]

6 minutes ago, Jingerbread said:

I'm against colleges making PE a requirement.  I'm not at all a sedentary person, and did two hours a day all seven days, but as an adult, I would not, and do not, think colleges have any right to be mandating any sort of health requirements on students.  That FitBit requirement should be banned.  I refuse to wear what I don't want to put on my body.  Forced biometrics devices upon my body and forced sharing are violations against my person and right to privacy.

It's a private college, and there is no requirement to go to that particular college, or even college at all. 

[meda]

It is a private college, but (assuming they are an accredited college that can accept state and federal government student loans)  it's still subject to federal civil rights laws including the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA).  I am not seeing how a student with limited mobility could be legally be subject to the Fitbit requirement

[hauntedoklahoma]

ORU is a stone's throw distance from me. 

I know a student attending there right now. She is not fundie, and quite likes the college.

In fact my kidney stone was lasered to death in the hospital that exists in the towers that are built according to the dimensions of the ark. 

[desertvixen]

@Mercer, ITA agree about having to sub in walking for a more rigorous exercise.  Personally, I prefer to use my elliptical, which burns more calories per minute than just walking.  (Best $600 on exercise stuff ever spent, because it removes my "don't wanna go anywhere" excuse)

@Maggie Mae, I don't like to bike as much, but I would be in favor of more bike-infrastructure.  We have some on-post, but nowhere near enough.