Jessa, Ben & Spurgeon Part 3

[Alicja]

10 hours ago, mizandry said:

It's the context through which I read most of her updates, because I'm concerned for this next generation of Duggars. Jill loves the crap out of her parents, and seems unwilling to challenge them in any conceivable way. Much of the praise towards her from Jim Bob and Michelle seemingly comes in the form of depicting her as the Example Child, who is an example because of things like being terrified enough of her father's anger to run and hide from him as a child and instantly obeying her parents with little question as to why, repeating all the party lines to her siblings because her parents are The Duggars, aka their God and primary role models for how to live life and avoid hellfire. She seems to operate almost entirely out of fear and that has consistently made me a bit sympathetic and concerned for her and her decision-making abilities.

 

these have been my thoughts on Jill for a while now, thanks for putting them into words

she does seem like an especially sensitive person, and probably internalized the message that disobeying your parents = disobeying God, unlike Jessa, who seems to be branching out on her own and experimenting with ways that are different from her parents. 

I think Derrick is helping her with that fear a little bit, but these things take time, so I'm not holding my breath.

[SassyPants]

10 hours ago, Kjaerringa said:

When I taught near Lafayette, Indiana, I had twins....Stormy Dawn and Misty Dawn.....and in the same class had a girl named Summer. In another grade, I had Spring, Rain, and Willow.

Those sound like names Todd and Sarah Palin would have considered.

[MyMilkshake]

 I just watched the video of Ben with the little guy (I can't bring myself to call him that awful name), and OMG, is he adorable! He looks like a very happy and loved baby.

So nice to see Ben showing that level of involvement and interest in him. He's seemed so distant up to this point?, while Jessa seems like she's been over the moon with him since day one.
I hope they make some moves away from the cult life and have good lives.

[EmmieJ]

18 hours ago, mizandry said:

1) I too am pleasantly surprised by how loving and genuinely connected she seems to be towards her baby* and 2) HE IS JUST TOO CUTE. TOO. CUTE. I can't stop playing this video because it's really doing things to my heart. As much as I judge the crap out of Ben... I really hope he's being hands-on like this all the time (

 

18 hours ago, Valerie3kids said:

Jessa seems much more engaged with her child and more in tune with her child. We have gotten a lot of "it's so hard to do with a baby" from Jill.

What I "feel" when I see the snippets posted on Jessa's instagram is a tenderness towards Spurgeon that I connect to and remember as a new mom myself.  I was so fascinated with every little thing my sweet baby did and I loved interacting with him, playing with him, etc.  In other posts, I've also commented that I see a true bonding and loving relationship between Anna and her children, with Josh being at least affectionate toward his children, rather than a strict disciplinarian.

What I see from the snippets shared by Jill is more often than not, someone else is holding Izzy, while Jill clings to Derrick.  When she is carrying him, it's so often in one kind of holder or another, rather than just in her arms.  I don't know - it's just a different vibe I get from Jill's pictures than I do from Jessa's.  And I can't forget that swaddled Izzy, crying so hard, while his mom takes a picture and then posts it for some reason I cannot fathom.

[EmmieJ]

18 hours ago, ksgranola1 said:

That is a very daring insinuation you are making based on a few snippets of video of Izzy. Remember that we have seen many more pictures of Izzy smiling and happy than we have of him crying. And Derrick is there; he grew up in a loving home & adores Izzy. He would not allow his child to be abused. What's wrong w/him being on a blanket w/a few toys around him. Maybe the floors are cold. You are assuming b/c he is on a blanket, that he is being "blanket trained?" That's really a stretch. I don't think Jill is the pinhead you are claiming she is. We don't really know what the hell they do down there. But I wouldn't assume it is as useless as has been portrayed here. Of course Jessa is enamored by her baby. He is her first and he seems content. Jill on the other hand, has chosen to pursue something other than SAHM. I'm just sick of the unsubstantiated bashing that goes on here. At least bash on something legitimate.

What else is Jill pursuing besides being a SAHM?  She stopped taking Spanish lessons at home because she could not apparently time those lessons for when Izzy might be down for a nap, or hire a local teenager to watch Izzy for an hour or two each day so she could have her lessons without interruption.  I don't think she has any regular "duties" related to mission work (nor does Derrick for that matter).  I know she got some kind of midwife certification awhile ago, but I don't think she is doing anything with that right now.  And unlike you, I do think they are doing nothing of any real use to anyone right now.

As to Derrick "would not allow" his son to be abused?  Well, I no longer trust Derrick's judgment in anything.  If he thinks JimBob is a good example of how a father behaves, what does that tell you?  After all, we know the Duggar kids were punished with a rod.  If Derrick is so enamoured of JimBob, then hell yes, he would approve of the "spare the rod, spoil the child" method of child-rearing.

[Shadoewolf]

Had to go back a few pages to figure out where the video was posted.....

Spud is too cute!! I see a LOT less of JB in him than I do in Izzy. Good to see Ben singing to him, and Jessa talking to him in a somewhat "normal" voice rather than Michelle's annoying baby blather. Maybe a TEENSY, TINY bit of hope for him, aside from his name anyway.

[Sweet Fellowship]

Interesting to see the tables turned. I think a few of us thought Jessa would be cold towards her child and more interested in taking selfies, whereas Jill would be very attached and motherly.

It seems to me that Jessa is more in love with Spurgeon than Jill is with Israel.

Of course I could be wrong in my judgement. We only see a portion of their lives.

[Chickenbutt]

I had 2 boys...as babies, one was easy, slept well, self soothed, giggled and laughed. The other cried all the time, had colic, threw up on me, never slept more than 20-30 minutes at a time and had to be held all the time. My goal in life was to find someone, anyone, else to hold my screaming kid.

I find it hard to assess parenting from a few pictures. Who knows what either child is like in day to day life. Izzy may be a "hard" baby who is sucking up all of Jill's energy and Baby Seewald (don't have a nickname for him..lol) is the "easy child" who honestly is much easier to love.

Clarification: I am in no way saying, or implying, that Jill does not love her baby.  

[SassyPants]

7 hours ago, Alicja said:

these have been my thoughts on Jill for a while now, thanks for putting them into words

she does seem like an especially sensitive person, and probably internalized the message that disobeying your parents = disobeying God, unlike Jessa, who seems to be branching out on her own and experimenting with ways that are different from her parents. 

I think Derrick is helping her with that fear a little bit, but these things take time, so I'm not holding my breath.

Jill was always the good one. She was the rule follower extraordinaire and clearly a very compliant and easy child to raise. If her parents told her to pray and forgive, she prayed and forgave.

When J/D announced their pregnancy, they had a photo of little baby girl shoes in the picture. At the time of their gender (their word) confirmation, Jill mentioned that she thought she was having a girl, but Derick thought boy. I think Jill wanted a girl- so #1 disappointment.

FF to the end of pregnancy- post dates, huge baby. Speaking from experience, no wants a post dates baby, much like no one wants a preemie. I think it's every woman's dream to deliver a couple of days early. Disappointment #2

Move on to the plans of all natural, drug and intervention free and home birth { I doubt it even entered Jill's mind that this might not happen for her]- Well, we know how that ended some 3 days later. Disappointment #3

Derick has surgery, quits WM and BAM the molestations are revealed. Disappointment #4

Recovering from a having a huge baby is hard- said baby needs care 24/7- hubby is also recovering, no one knows if the show will continue. There is no steady income. Disappointment #5

Show cancelled. #6

The Dillards flee and AM is revealed. #7

People no longer care for the Duggars- lots of negative press- still no income/job #8

Isolation, language difficulties. #9

Drops out of class #10

LOTS of disappointments in 1 year for a person who always saw herself as perfect. Maybe questioning why following the rules is no longer working.

Jessa, OTOH,  sounds as if she developed a hard outer shell and some individual coping mechanisms beyond keeping sweet. Yes, she gets labeled a biotch, but at least she can somewhat function in the real world. Blanket training only made her stronger and more resilient. And no, I have no proof that Jessa, specifically, was blanket trained.

[lovemygsp]

14 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

I had 2 boys...as babies, one was easy, slept well, self soothed, giggled and laughed. The other cried all the time, had colic, threw up on me, never slept more than 20-30 minutes at a time and had to be held all the time. My goal in life was to find someone, anyone, else to hold my screaming kid.

I find it hard to assess parenting from a few pictures. Who knows what either child is like in day to day life. Izzy may be a "hard" baby who is sucking up all of Jill's energy and Baby Seewald (don't have a nickname for him..lol) is the "easy child" who honestly is much easier to love.

Clarification: I am in no way saying, or implying, that Jill does not love her baby.  

i had that baby from hell too and frankly I see myself in Jill right now. I hope she's not suffering from Postpartum depression but if she is she is getting help. Which I kind of doubt because jesus. 

[SassyPants]

The difference between an easy baby and a hard baby is like night and day.

I had one that only slept at night- but never, not one wink, during the day except when held. OK, bring on the Snugli (wrap in the 80s). She lived in that thing, literally it was part of her (and my) wardrobe for the first 5 mos.

Second kid, slept through the night from day 3- literally. Loved his crib and for the first 2 years slept close to 20 hours a day. Easiest.child.ever.

Now we have a GD (Child of child #1). Claire does not nap- never has, unless held. I kept telling my daughter to put her in the crib and close the door- she refused to do it. I feel so sorry for her babysitter-luckily, it's a lady that comes into her home, but still. 

Oh and kids that do not nap are generally cranky in the late afternoon.

It's a horrible cycle.

[Chickenbutt]

I was so overwhelmed with my cranky baby. I did not have PPD, but was sleep deprived, worn out and bitchy. Hubby did what he could when he was home, but the majority of care fell to me. Interestingly enough, as they grew, the cranky baby became a mellow, self assured, easy going child. The "good" baby became the toddler and child from hell.....ADHD, slight OCD, class clown, outgoing, funny and into everything. Thankfully they grew into great adults. The cranky baby continues to be easy going, self assured and doesn't cause me a bit of worry. The good child is a whirlwind of activity, busy, disorganized and quite frankly, a mess. But he is my mess....lol

[SassyPants]

8 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

I was so overwhelmed with my cranky baby. I did not have PPD, but was sleep deprived, worn out and bitchy. Hubby did what he could when he was home, but the majority of care fell to me. Interestingly enough, as they grew, the cranky baby became a mellow, self assured, easy going child. The "good" baby became the toddler and child from hell.....ADHD, slight OCD, class clown, outgoing, funny and into everything. Thankfully they grew into great adults. The cranky baby continues to be easy going, self assured and doesn't cause me a bit of worry. The good child is a whirlwind of activity, busy, disorganized and quite frankly, a mess. But he is my mess....lol

My easy one was also a class clown- but other than that, was really easy.

[EmmieJ]

56 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

LOTS of disappointments in 1 year for a person who always saw herself as perfect. Maybe questioning why following the rules is no longer working.

You make a good point. 

[twinmama]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

The difference between an easy baby and a hard baby is like night and day.

I had one that only slept at night- but never, not one wink, during the day except when held. OK, bring on the Snugli (wrap in the 80s). She lived in that thing, literally it was part of her (and my) wardrobe for the first 5 mos.

Second kid, slept through the night from day 3- literally. Loved his crib and for the first 2 years slept close to 20 hours a day. Easiest.child.ever.

Now we have a GD (Child of child #1). Claire does not nap- never has, unless held. I kept telling my daughter to put her in the crib and close the door- she refused to do it. I feel so sorry for her babysitter-luckily, it's a lady that comes into her home, but still. 

Oh and kids that do not nap are generally cranky in the late afternoon.

It's a horrible cycle.

This is my twins. They didn't sleep through the night, but they would sleep until we woke them every 3 hours to eat (preemies, doctors told us to do that for a while), then they'd be back asleep in seconds. And it felt like they napped all day too. I did have postpartum depression, until I got treatment when they were 7 months old. I don't know how someone could handle PPD with a child that doesn't nap. I could barely handle it with two who did nap consistently. 

Gotta say, while I don't want any more kids for more serious reasons, part of me is also scared to have a child who doesn't just smile at you and fall asleep when you lay them in the crib at night! And so people don't think I'm bragging or they're perfect, they're 4 and one still gets me up at least once a night for random things. Blech. Still go to bed easily though.

[bjr70]

On 2/4/2016 at 10:59 PM, bashfulpixie said:

On 2/4/2016 at 10:42 PM, bjr70 said:

Yeah it was definitely Prudence.

 

I went to school with sisters Prudence and Patience. There was also Cricket and her sister Rainbow, and Stormy, Misty, and Cloudy. In a school with just under 400 kids. [emoji15]

Rainbow, Stormy and Cloudy?  Did you go to school with the My Little Ponies?  Or the Care Bears?  All joking aside, why would someone do that to their child?

I wish I knew. It was a "bedroom community" for a larger city, but had a big rural population. It's a bizarre place.

[PennySycamore]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

The difference between an easy baby and a hard baby is like night and day.

I had one that only slept at night- but never, not one wink, during the day except when held. OK, bring on the Snugli (wrap in the 80s). She lived in that thing, literally it was part of her (and my) wardrobe for the first 5 mos.

Second kid, slept through the night from day 3- literally. Loved his crib and for the first 2 years slept close to 20 hours a day. Easiest.child.ever.

Now we have a GD (Child of child #1). Claire does not nap- never has, unless held. I kept telling my daughter to put her in the crib and close the door- she refused to do it. I feel so sorry for her babysitter-luckily, it's a lady that comes into her home, but still. 

Oh and kids that do not nap are generally cranky in the late afternoon.

It's a horrible cycle.

Did we have the same kids?  My first lived in the Snugli and my second slept through the night in the hospital and always slept well.  Mine were both girls, though, so I suppose we didn't have the same kids.

[withaj]

I was a terrible napper. I still remember sitting in a crib at my nanny's house waiting for nap time to be over. (Sometimes I escaped and ate sugar out of the sugar jar.) And naps in Pre-K -- heaven forfend! I spent a lot of time on a cot staring at the ceiling.

[Valerie3kids]

1 hour ago, withaj said:

I was a terrible napper. I still remember sitting in a crib at my nanny's house waiting for nap time to be over. (Sometimes I escaped and ate sugar out of the sugar jar.) And naps in Pre-K -- heaven forfend! I spent a lot of time on a cot staring at the ceiling.

I always loved naps and I still do. Fascinating the way life works for different people.

[withaj]

14 minutes ago, Valerie3kids said:

I always loved naps and I still do. Fascinating the way life works for different people.

Oh, I love naps NOW. Any adult who doesn't is a mystery to me. But naps were not happening for me during napping-age childhood. My sister, on the other hand, was a marvelous napper.

[Georgiana]

I think root issue is the difference in critical thinking between the girls.

I have never heard an original thought from Jill in her life.  At home (and even now) she parroted what her parents said and gone along 100% with what their plan was.  She married the first guy JB showed her.  Her wedding/pregnancy was just whatever was trending on Pinterest.  Now that she is a mother, she is just doing exactly what she learned at the TTH.  She's parenting like a robot, and I don't know if it ever occurs to her to ask "IS this age appropriate?  IS this something I found beneficial as a child?"  

Now, I am not saying that Jessa is a critical thinking champion, but unlike her sister, she HAS shown that she is able to think for herself.  She set her own boundaries with Ben.  She didn't have her first kiss in front of everyone.  Her instagram, while deplorable, shows her occasionally deviating slightly from the pure party line.  She's not always sweet, she wears shorts to swim, etc.  No, it is not far.  I don't see her going fundie-ite.  But she has shown that at least sometimes, she reflects on things and makes her own decisions for herself and for her life.  

But what all this means is that Jessa is able to look back on how she was raised, evaluate whether or not it was beneficial, and adopt or change methods to fit her life now.  Jill, on the other hand, is trying to shoehorn Michelle's "parenting" style into an entirely different situation where it doesn't work.  She doesn't know how to cope without Derick around all the time, she seems lost being one on one with a baby instead of having siblings to help entertain the child, etc.  

[Chelio93]

My son was born at 32 weeks and spent a month in the NICU.  Without the noise and chaos that kid couldn't sleep. It took a month at home before he became comfortable with the silence.  My daughter was full term.  She is still keeping me up at night.  She is 8 with her own bedroom.  Cordwood is outside

[missegeno]

8 hours ago, withaj said:

Oh, I love naps NOW. Any adult who doesn't is a mystery to me. But naps were not happening for me during napping-age childhood. My sister, on the other hand, was a marvelous napper.

I have no idea how I did with naps as a young child, but I cannot take naps now as an adult. If I fall asleep, I am out for 6-9 hours. Even if I just woke up from a full night's sleep, I'm out for the duration. It is nice because it also means I rarely have trouble sleeping through the night, but I am fascinated by people who can lay down, fall asleep, and be up and awake within the hour!

I once asked my partner to make me wake up from a nap that I was going to take. He removed the blankets, tickled me, and poured cold water on me before I would loosen my deathgrip on the pillow. I was grumpy the whole rest of the day and he now refuses to let me nap during the day. I'm fairly nice when I'm sleepy, but cut my sleep short and I'll cut you.

[Finduilas]

Just watched last video of S.Elliot and Ben (which is ridiculously cute) and I wonder if anyone agrees with me that S.Elliot looks more ... aware and talkative (not sure of the proper words in English for baby-related stuffs but basically 'like a kid who is being properly intellectually stimulated') than Israel ? I don't mean it in a judgmental way toward Israel or anything, I just find it striking that Jessa's kid seem to be getting more positive attention while we could have expected him to be a trophy baby no one talks to.

And he is so damn cute. 

[OyToTheVey]

22 minutes ago, Finduilas said:

Just watched last video of S.Elliot and Ben (which is ridiculously cute) and I wonder if anyone agrees with me that S.Elliot looks more ... aware and talkative (not sure of the proper words in English for baby-related stuffs but basically 'like a kid who is being properly intellectually stimulated') than Israel ? I don't mean it in a judgmental way toward Israel or anything, I just find it striking that Jessa's kid seem to be getting more positive attention while we could have expected him to be a trophy baby no one talks to.

And he is so damn cute. 

I completely get what you're trying to say. Spurgie is present and aware. Israel never gave off the vibe that he's aware of his surroundings. But I also think it's because of 2 completely different parenting styles. Jill isn't always aware of her surroundings either.