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Bates Family Part 8


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7 minutes ago, socalrules said:

That is my favorite fundy reality show moment. It's the closest we will ever get to a real, almost normal conversation on one of these shows. It was a real sister/friend conversation. I got the idea that Michael didn't realize they were talking about sex when she first answered. She didn't put two and two together until later. Michael is likely one of those people that just wouldn't normally talk about sex to others and that is ok. That's exactly how I am as well. Tori and carlin on the other hand, I bet they have very non-fundy conversations with each other and that's ok too. Sex is a personal activity and people shouldn't be forced to discuss it if they don't want to but allowed to if all involved are comfortable with it. 

It's also something where people tend to project their own worries, hang-ups, etc., and in fundie circles that's even more amplified.  Michael seems pretty practical anyway, so she probably approached the wedding and the honeymoon with the same attitude.  Their honeymoon pics looked pretty intimate (pics of them kissing), so they must have figured things out rather quickly.  It's not like it's been centuries since Awkward Virgin Honeymoons were the norm - I keep thinking of the scene in the movie Yentl where everyone is waiting for the marriage to be consummated and to check the sheets for said proof.  A close friend of mine had dated her (now) husband for a good five years before they were married and waited until her wedding night to lose her virginity (still not sure if it was her husband's first time, but I doubt it).  I remember asking her if she was nervous and she said yes, but when I saw her the day after the wedding she was smiling in a knowing way.  It's just individual how people react, IMO.

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This is how I understood it:

2 hours ago, sophrosyne said:

As if answering our fascinated speculation, our fundie Bates put the meat to the matter for us at the candle-making party at Erin's house in "15 Kids and an Empty Nest" (episode before the wedding episode, and about 15:00 into the episode). Here's a transcript (for real):


Female voice off camera (maybe Whitney) about Michael: "Do you think she's nervous?"
Erin: "Wouldn't you be?"
Female voice off camera (probably Tori): "I wouldn't be nervous about the weddin'."
Whitney laughs hard, says "Alright!"
Erin: "Would you please expound on what you mean?"

Everyone in the room heard the conversation and knows they're talking about sex.

"On what?" says Michael, joining the group.

Michael wasn't in the room, didn't hear what they were saying earlier and has no idea what they're talking about.

Erin: "Are you more nervous about the wedding or after the wedding?" (giggles)

Michael thinks with "after the wedding" Erin is asking about being married in general. She doesn't think she has anything to be nervous about as she's marrying the man she loves and is looking forward to married life.

Michael, nearly slightly terse: "I'm not nervous about either."

Cut to later interview with Erin. 
Erin reports that she was nervous about her wedding, the kiss, and after the wedding "the big shebang" [pretty funny naive fundie slip, Erin…. "She-Bang"… banging the she…]. "But she [M] says she's not nervous about nothin', so she's better than I was."

Cut back to the earlier 'is she nervous?' conversation.
Erin: "She's not nervous about either; she's got this under control."

Michael still hasn't caught on to what this is about.

Michael: "Am I supposed to be [nervous]?"
Erin: "She read the encyclopedia when she was a girl…" Michael laughs and looks embarrassed

This is where Michael realises what they've been talking about the whole time and is embarrassed about it.

Female voice (probably Carlin or Tori) off camera, "Okay seriously guys, we're leaving this conversation where it's at.
Erin continues, "...that's what she told me."

Michael probably did read the encyclopedia as her sex ed.

Cut to later interview with Michael.  
Michael: "Erin thinks about things that never cross my mind. Maybe other people are thinking it; I don't know," raising her eyebrows, chortling, shrugging.

She's trying to play it off and kinda failing. We don't know what the producer (or interviewer or whoever) said to her beforehand, so we don't really know what she's reacting too. I don't know whether she's pretending not to know that the convo was about sex – so saying she doesn't know why anyone would be nervous about married life – or if she's saying she never even thought about sex so she doesn't have anything to be nervous about or whether she's pretending to be überconfident with no worries at all about "the big shebang". It seemed a bit like she was reacting to the fact that Erin was thinking about the fact that her sister would be consummating her marriage pretty soo, as opposed to Michael who doesn't usually think about other people's sexlife. In any case, it seems like she didn't really want to talk about it on camera.

 

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On 2/6/2016 at 0:33 PM, JoyfulSel said:

There was a kind of funny quick moment where James makes a face into the camera, but I can't remember who else was in that scene, maybe Brandon and Gil ?

Before the "weddin" (as Michael kept calling it), Michael was having pictures taken while she stood on a set of stairs w/ her back to the camera. Gil walks cross the floor w/ one of the 2 littlest boys and it looks like he's holding the outfit the little boy will be wearing. Gil stops to look at Michael, and says something about it's "gonna make me cry". As he starts to continue walking away, (I think it's) James Duggar is right behind him, makes a face and a funny noise.

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I'm still not quite sure yet what to make of Michael, but I remember at our wedding saying to my husband on the ride home "Do you realize that every one of those people knows we're going to be getting laid within the hour?" Now, I'm far from modest, and dirty jokes have been my forte for as far back as I can remember ... but it was just disturbing on some level to think about everyone picturing us having sex. So, I can imagine how someone as prim and virginal as Michael would just totally play it off and hope the conversation stops.

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Per their Instagram page the Bateses all watched the Super Bowl! You think the halftime show too?! 

 

Also, Lawson thinks Jeep wins for best Super Bowl commercial. So he obviously didn't turn it off during commercials. 

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I totally thought Mama Jane was trying to dab in the picture.

Also this is just me being annoying but for some reason I just was not a fan of how her hair was styled (Michael I mean), something about the random front strains weirdly bother me.

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I can't tell whether Michael didn't know what was going to happen on the wedding night (sex), or whether she was genuinely scared and uncomfortable and was brushing it off as if it was something she didn't think about at all. I just can't imagine kissing a guy for the first time, leaving my family to live several states away,  and having sex all in one day. I'm not sure there's really a way to really avoid fear in that situation.

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On February 7, 2016 at 10:30 AM, OnceUponATime said:

I think if the churches are fine with it (some even let your own person do the ceremony) then who cares? I know that not all churches allow it. My church-going friends are ones who believe the 'church' is the people and not the building so really it doesn't matter to them where the location is. If they want to have a nice building which leads to nice wedding photos/videos I say go ahead if that is important to them. It's a lot easier to go to a pretty church that doesn't involve excessive decorations than to try and decorate an ugly building to someones liking.

I know of pastors who have knowingly officiated at atheist's weddings. They even let them get married inside the church (and yes they still require them to undergo the biblical premarital counseling that they require everyone they marry to do). :pb_surprised: I also unfortunately know a lot of Christians who find these actions despicable/evil/sinful.

At the end of the day I think it is most important that the couple in question are happy and stressfree. If the venue is really important to them for whatever reason, and the place allows them to marry there, then I am happy for them.

 It was important to my groom & I to have our wedding and reception both in one place to keep things simpler logistics-wise (and cheaper) and since we wanted to serve different local wines at our reception, we ended up getting married at a garden venue. We just didn't want to have awkward negotiating about having alcohol served in a church. The pastor who married us was fine with going off-site. It was my parents who gave us shit for not getting married in a church because we wanted an alcohol-fueled party. 

I wonder if it were really up to just the fundykids, would the weddings be different. Like if you only invited 400 close friends and family instead 800 to include your parents' acquaintances, they'd be able to afford nicer options for everything... But again I realize with them it is less about the event and more about starting "new seasons of life." Still, I feel like if you are going to ask people to travel hundreds or even a thousand miles for a 20 min ceremony, they deserve a good spread after.

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26 minutes ago, Alye said:

400 close friends and family? I doubt I know 400 people. Weddings in my family have never been over 100 people,

I have a huge family and to get to 400 would still be a bit hard. My husband has a family that is small enough to fit into a shoe box so to reach 400 I would probably have to start inviting second cousins I haven't even met for 20+ years. Even if we would invite people at work with +1 I doubt we would get to much over 150 people that way. Our close friends are not more than 10-15 people between the two of us.

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21 minutes ago, elliha said:

I have a huge family and to get to 400 would still be a bit hard. My husband has a family that is small enough to fit into a shoe box so to reach 400 I would probably have to start inviting second cousins I haven't even met for 20+ years. Even if we would invite people at work with +1 I doubt we would get to much over 150 people that way. Our close friends are not more than 10-15 people between the two of us.

You're forgetting that you need to invite all your colleagues and your parent's too(whole families included). Plus all of the church and their families, plus everyone who homeschools using the same curriculum as you. I think a fundie's definiton of close friend may differ to ours. More like "we were at JTTH together. BFF:my_heart:"

I'm not sure it would be easy for the Bates to make their list smaller. You'd risk offending someone, and that might not end nicely. It probably seems to them a bit impolite to only invite half of someone's quiver - and then you have the problem of not only deciding who but also communicating that in a way without sounding skint/tightassed/hurting their feelings. They possibly have also previously invited your whole family to their arrow's wedding, so you feel a bit obliged to do the same. And if you invite all the duggars because you all went to their wedding, and then only invite one R-kid because none have been married yet (so you can't feel obliged by that to invite them all) that might seem a bit unfair. 

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When Ben and Jessa got married, didn't Ben say something in a TH about "I invited EVERYONE I know...even this guy I moved a sofa with once."
It illustrated to me that with these people it's more about quantity than quality.  And THE GIFTS!

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So where were the Bates watching the Superbowl game last night? Is that their parents bedroom? Or are they in a hotel?

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18 hours ago, singsingsing said:

"Too short for someone over the age of 30"? What century is this?

I agree!!! Mama Jane's outfit made me wonder if she's been cheering on Alyssa's short skirts and sleeveless tops all along and maybe even before her marriage. It's been mentioned several times that Alyssa is really close to her grandmother.

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1 minute ago, MissBitters said:

I agree!!! Mama Jane's outfit made me wonder if she's been cheering on Alyssa's short skirts and sleeveless tops all along and maybe even before her marriage. It's been mentioned several times that Alyssa is really close to her grandmother.

The episode where they all descend on Mama Jane's house made me see why Alyssa and she must get along so well. Mama Jane is a no-bullshit kind of lady.

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I finally watched the second season. I just for the life of me can't figure out why a girl from the Bronx wants to be that religious. I know many many people in the Bronx and they all like a good time and bars. I just can't figure out how one can be sheltered in this city.

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11 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

I totally thought Mama Jane was trying to dab in the picture.

Also this is just me being annoying but for some reason I just was not a fan of how her hair was styled (Michael I mean), something about the random front strains weirdly bother me.

Someone either in this thread or the wedding thread said that it is possible she kept her hair in front like that because she didn't like the alteration work on the dress, which makes a lot of sense to me. It's a beautiful dress and I don't think the alterations were horrible but as a seamstress herself she is likely to be a lot more nit picky about that kind of thing. 

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15 minutes ago, OyToTheVey said:

I finally watched the second season. I just for the life of me can't figure out why a girl from the Bronx wants to be that religious. I know many many people in the Bronx and they all like a good time and bars. I just can't figure out how one can be sheltered in this city.

Have you watched the Wolfpack documentary?  That ran through my mind throughout that film... HOW CAN YOU SHELTER A FAMILY OF KIDS IN NEW YORK CITY?  Basically, you imprison them.  

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45 minutes ago, OyToTheVey said:

I finally watched the second season. I just for the life of me can't figure out why a girl from the Bronx wants to be that religious. I know many many people in the Bronx and they all like a good time and bars. I just can't figure out how one can be sheltered in this city.

Aren't there large Hasidic neighborhoods in the Bronx? And doesn't the Bronx have a population about 1.4 million?

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4 minutes ago, HereticHick said:

Aren't there large Hasidic neighborhoods in the Bronx? And doesn't the Bronx have a population about 1.4 million?

I'm not sure if their is one in the Bronx but their is a huge one in Brooklyn. 

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When I went to NYC I didn't get the chance to leave Manhattan but I was taken by how much diversity there was even as a tourist. Tons of different types of places of worship, a restaurant for every country, a store for anything that could be sold and so many different types of people on the street. 

I don't think it would be possible to prevent your kids from seeing all that, but if you don't allow them to socialize out side of your church it probably wouldn't be too hard to convince your kids they are all evil and should be avoided. I am more curious about how this lines up with their daycare business though, they can't only be watching fundie kids so whose do they watch? What would they do if jewish, catholic, hindu or muslim parent asked about placing their kid there? 

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I also disliked Michael's hair but it seems like the go to fundie bridal hairdo.  Showing off their godly feminine locks.  I don't remember Erin's hair but Jessa and Jill had the same long flowing locks. So did Alyssa and Erin. 

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1 hour ago, HereticHick said:

Aren't there large Hasidic neighborhoods in the Bronx? And doesn't the Bronx have a population about 1.4 million?

The Hasidic neighborhoods are here in Brooklyn and they go to their own schools. It's much easier to find a Hasid that hasn't even talked to anyone outside their culture. But Ashley and Anastaisa just seems like very conservative Christians. That's why I'm weirded out by their desire to isolate themselves with fundies.

19 minutes ago, tumblr said:

When I went to NYC I didn't get the chance to leave Manhattan but I was taken by how much diversity there was even as a tourist. Tons of different types of places of worship, a restaurant for every country, a store for anything that could be sold and so many different types of people on the street. 

I don't think it would be possible to prevent your kids from seeing all that, but if you don't allow them to socialize out side of your church it probably wouldn't be too hard to convince your kids they are all evil and should be avoided. I am more curious about how this lines up with their daycare business though, they can't only be watching fundie kids so whose do they watch? What would they do if jewish, catholic, hindu or muslim parent asked about placing their kid there? 

This. It's practically impossible in the Bronx to prevent kids from seeing 'other'.

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