Bates Family Part 8

[paulypepper]

On 2/5/2016 at 3:31 PM, SassyPants said:

Of importance: for people who are so religious, you'd think that they would be connected to A church and A congregation, and therefore, they would all get married in THAT church. I know many people venue shop, but I think those tend to be people who do not fly a religious flag at every opportunity possible.

Now maybe this is the Catholic (at least at some point) in me speaking out.

Part of religion is about coming together and being part of a community.

If you're not religious and just venue shopping, that's a different issue.

Where do these people worship and why are the weddings not held in those places????

Thank you for bringing that up. I see this on these shows and I'm like...don't you have a regular church you go to and why would you not get married there? Not to mention it seems they always have so many hundreds of people invited and coming to the wedding. Do any of us REALLY know 800 or more people?

This is the Protestant speaking in me, so really we're not that different at all..

[singsingsing]

It's easy to know 800+ people when you're a fundamentalist. 

[HRM1216]

They probably definitely know--or are acquainted with--800+ people simply because their friendships are generally made with other families that have a high number of kids. And seeing as the Bates are semi-famous, especially in their groups, they know people will come just to socialize with them and others. 

[OnceUponATime]

21 minutes ago, paulypepper said:

don't you have a regular church you go to and why would you not get married there?

I know a lot of christian people who have church shopped for their weddings. Sometimes it is because they are getting married in their hometowns and not where they live, other times it is because they go to a really ugly church (old warehouse and the likes) and would prefer something prettier. Or random things like their church meets in a school hall and that isn't really a place to get married (and possibly wouldn't be allowed). I find it weird to think they would be judged for wanting to make their wedding day to their preference.
 

[tumblr]

16 hours ago, Pretzel said:

She must have been really trying to get them to tape her. And when they didn't she was probably severely disappointed! 

https://youtu.be/2uiAEv4Hdi0

We discussed this a few pages back but I'm wonderning who else caught the bit of Erin at the end, saying "She [Michael] read the encyclopedia when she was little, at least that's what she told me"? 

Whitney looked embarrassed, Erin seemed amused and Michael was like "Am I supposed to be [nervous]?". I am now convinced that Michael didn't want to imply that she didn't think of sex at all, but that she doesn't think of it as something she should be nervous about.

Having Erin say "the first kiss was a big thing and then after the wedding and the big shebang[...]" reminded me of way back when they were newlyweds. Someone on FJ remarked that Erin looked a little uncomfortable in post-wedding pictures and in pictures weeks and months after. I'm now thinking that was probably true, and she may have found it harder to adapt to the new-found level of intimacy. After all, she was the poster child for the devout, hard-working, talented and pure fundie princess. She suddenly turned into somebody's wife and had to jump into intimacy right away. 

I definitely saw it as Michael hadn't thought to be nervous about the wedding night. 

A lot of the fundie lite types I went to high school with said things along the lines of 'If you wait until your wedding night it won't hurt or be awkward because that is who and when god wants you to have sex' 

[singsingsing]

Two of my friends have gotten married in the past few years, and they both got married somewhere other than where they usually went to church. In both their cases, their families lived out of town, and I think they mainly wanted to choose a location that would be better for their families.

But sometimes your home church is just not able to accommodate the number of guests you plan to invite, and you don't necessarily have to have a huge wedding for that to be the case. I'd estimate that my church could accommodate maybe... 300 people. And I'm guestimating. Now 300 is a good sized wedding, for sure, but it would be pretty packed. And what if you both have large families? What if you have a lot of friends, and you're inviting kids and giving all the singles a +1? The guest list can quickly add up and just make it impractical to get married in your own church, so you have to look elsewhere.

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, OnceUponATime said:

I know a lot of christian people who have church shopped for their weddings. Sometimes it is because they are getting married in their hometowns and not where they live, other times it is because they go to a really ugly church (old warehouse and the likes) and would prefer something prettier. Or random things like their church meets in a school hall and that isn't really a place to get married (and possibly wouldn't be allowed). I find it weird to think they would be judged for wanting to make their wedding day to their preference.
 

I am anti the shopping of churches for aesthetic reasoning alone- that is crass, IMO.

Secular places fine. Do most religious houses provide civil services? Aren't there religious tenets involved?

 

[OperaRocks]

On 2/5/2016 at 4:00 AM, Alye said:

Does anyone know if the episode is up online anywhere? It's not where I usually watch it.

I'm searching, too. Usually [redacted] and [redacted] have multiple links. UP must have a tight handle on this episode. Please advise should you find a link. Thanks 

[martian]

2 hours ago, singsingsing said:

It's easy to know 800+ people when you're a fundamentalist. 

 

2 hours ago, HRM1216 said:

They probably definitely know--or are acquainted with--800+ people simply because their friendships are generally made with other families that have a high number of kids. And seeing as the Bates are semi-famous, especially in their groups, they know people will come just to socialize with them and others. 

Just my thought, but these "everybody invited" weddings are also prime courting opportunities almost on the scale of a Regency or Victorian London season or debutante ball.  Maybe that's just an understood part of the reasoning and culture for the fundies involved.  As in the song a particularly toolish Jane Austen character once quoted, "Going to One Wedding Brings on Another".

[OnceUponATime]

30 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I am anti the shopping of churches for aesthetic reasoning alone- that is crass, IMO.

Secular places fine. Do most religious houses provide civil services? Aren't there religious tenets involved?

 

I think if the churches are fine with it (some even let your own person do the ceremony) then who cares? I know that not all churches allow it. My church-going friends are ones who believe the 'church' is the people and not the building so really it doesn't matter to them where the location is. If they want to have a nice building which leads to nice wedding photos/videos I say go ahead if that is important to them. It's a lot easier to go to a pretty church that doesn't involve excessive decorations than to try and decorate an ugly building to someones liking.

I know of pastors who have knowingly officiated at atheist's weddings. They even let them get married inside the church (and yes they still require them to undergo the biblical premarital counseling that they require everyone they marry to do). I also unfortunately know a lot of Christians who find these actions despicable/evil/sinful.

At the end of the day I think it is most important that the couple in question are happy and stressfree. If the venue is really important to them for whatever reason, and the place allows them to marry there, then I am happy for them.

[hollywood]

So if the bates boys are so into football will they be watching the superbowl? Will they be watching the halftime show featuring Beyonce?

[accountingstar]

I am shocked that Lawson's new song charted.

Quote

lawbatesThanks again! Y'all helped #IWillAlways climb to #46 on the country charts yesterday!

Quote

lawbatesGUYS!!! THANK YA'LL SOO MUCH! #IWillAlways is #68 on @itunes now! Tag a friend & see if we can get it in the top 40!

 

 

Mama Jane and Papa Bill. Mama Jane that is a short skirt. My mother isn't fundie but even she would say something about it being too short for anyone over the age of 30.

 

Erin was decorating recently. I like that her style is evolving.

 

 

 

 

 

[sunshine]

1 hour ago, hollywood said:

So if the bates boys are so into football will they be watching the superbowl? Will they be watching the halftime show featuring Beyonce?

I'm sure they will find a clever way to avoid it.

[elliha]

Just now, sunshine said:

I'm sure they will find a clever way to avoid it.

Or pretend they avoided it...

[singsingsing]

"Too short for someone over the age of 30"? What century is this?

[catlady]

31 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

"Too short for someone over the age of 30"? What century is this?

thank you, SSS.  i work with a lot of women over age 30 of various body types, and most of them wear similar skirts, and they always look very nice.

[withaj]

1 hour ago, accountingstar said:

Mama Jane and Papa Bill. Mama Jane that is a short skirt. My mother isn't fundie but even she would say something about it being too short for anyone over the age of 30.

 

Uh, what? IMO, That is a totally appropriate knee-length skirt on anyone.

33 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

"Too short for someone over the age of 30"? What century is this?

Thank you.

[sophrosyne]

On February 6, 2016 at 7:10 PM, Fascinated said:

I think I'd be terrified. 

As if answering our fascinated speculation, our fundie Bates put the meat to the matter for us at the candle-making party at Erin's house in "15 Kids and an Empty Nest" (episode before the wedding episode, and about 15:00 into the episode). Here's a transcript (for real):

Female voice off camera (maybe Whitney) about Michael: "Do you think she's nervous?"
Erin: "Wouldn't you be?"
Female voice off camera (probably Tori): "I wouldn't be nervous about the weddin'."
Whitney laughs hard, says "Alright!"
Erin: "Would you please expound on what you mean?"
"On what?" says Michael, joining the group.
Erin: "Are you more nervous about the wedding or after the wedding?" (giggles)
Michael, nearly slightly terse: "I'm not nervous about either."

Cut to later interview with Erin. 
Erin reports that she was nervous about her wedding, the kiss, and after the wedding "the big shebang" [pretty funny naive fundie slip, Erin…. "She-Bang"… banging the she…]. "But she [M] says she's not nervous about nothin', so she's better than I was."

Cut back to the earlier 'is she nervous?' conversation.
Erin: "She's not nervous about either; she's got this under control."
Michael: "Am I supposed to be [nervous]?"
Erin: "She read the encyclopedia when she was a girl…" Michael laughs.
Female voice (probably Carlin or Tori) off camera, "Okay seriously guys, we're leaving this conversation where it's at.
Erin continues, "...that's what she told me."

Cut to later interview with Michael.  
Michael: "Erin thinks about things that never cross my mind. Maybe other people are thinking it; I don't know," raising her eyebrows, chortling, shrugging.

[Pretzel]

16 minutes ago, sophrosyne said:

As if answering our fascinated speculation, our fundie Bates put the meat to the matter for us at the candle-making party at Erin's house in "15 Kids and an Empty Nest" (episode before the wedding episode, and about 15:00 into the episode). Here's a transcript (for real):

 

[cut]

Cut to later interview with Michael.  
Michael: "Erin thinks about things that never cross my mind. Maybe other people are thinking it; I don't know," raising her eyebrows, chortling, shrugging.

Thanks! To me it still sounds like Michael's referencing the being nervous part. Like, why would she have to be nervous if she's getting married to the man she loves and is looking forward to all aspects of marriage? But that's just my interpretation, other people might have a differing opinion. 

[princessmahina]

I think the skirt is a bit short in general (not because of her age), but if that's what she wants to wear, then I'm glad she's wearing what she wants, and not what her children/in-laws think she should be wearing. 

[accountingstar]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

"Too short for someone over the age of 30"? What century is this?

We are in the century where women can finally wear PANTS!! My mom hates skirts because she was forced to wear them to Public School in the US. 

Almost all of the women at my work wear pants.

Quote

For a period in the 1970s, trousers became quite fashionable for women. In the United States, this may be due to the passage of Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972, which ruled that dresses could not be required of girls. Dress codes changed in public schools across the United States.

Women were not allowed to wear trousers on the U.S. Senate floor until 1993.

 

[actuallyjessica]

I found it difficult to get a read on Michael during that situation. I keep going back and forth on whether she was being naive and didn't really know why the married girls would be asking if she were nervous, whether she was being sanctimonious and thought her sisters were being hussies to even bring the subject up, or whether Michael was 100% ready to enter the next step of her relationship, which consisted of being physical with her husband.

I'm leaning more toward the sanctimonious option though, because that's generally how I see Michael. The way I see the married girls is this: Michael looks down on Erin, because she thinks she's an immodest hussy who shows her lower legs, chased after her man and got married before her. Erin looks down on Alyssa, because she thinks she's a pants-wearin', sleeveless hussy who more than likely got somewhat physical before marriage. There's definitely tension between the three, and I would love to hear what Michael thinks of Alyssa. LOL.

[socalrules]

That is my favorite fundy reality show moment. It's the closest we will ever get to a real, almost normal conversation on one of these shows. It was a real sister/friend conversation. I got the idea that Michael didn't realize they were talking about sex when she first answered. She didn't put two and two together until later. Michael is likely one of those people that just wouldn't normally talk about sex to others and that is ok. That's exactly how I am as well. Tori and carlin on the other hand, I bet they have very non-fundy conversations with each other and that's ok too. Sex is a personal activity and people shouldn't be forced to discuss it if they don't want to but allowed to if all involved are comfortable with it. 

[Snarkle]

As for churches, I don't have a problem with people church shopping.  In our heavily Catholic area, it's not uncommon to go to one parish for services but get married in a different one within the archdiocese because of location, availability, family connection, or whatever.  The difference is if it's your home parish you usually get a break on the church rental costs vs. if you are from outside of the parish.

We go to a UU church which is very old and charming and a number of couples from outside of the church have been married there because of the sanctuary's aesthetic appeal and our modern hall available for receptions.  Oftentimes our reverend isn't the one who performs the ceremony, either.  Basically as long as the church is available, they are happy to rent it out to anyone to make some money.

The church Michael was married in clearly didn't have any specific use rules regarding ceremony, etc., either, because they had Gil perform the actual ceremony and not one of the church's clergy.

[HRM1216]

@actuallyjessica I kind of have the same dilemma as you and always end up on the "sanctimonious" option as well. The other girls just seem to be more open about that conversation in general, even with the unmarried sisters around, and I think Michael probably found it distasteful and also a reminder to her that her sisters/sister-in-law are just not quite as holy and devout as she is herself. Or at least definitely not as modest. 

I will say, however, that I don't think there is as much tension as some others do. I think tension is a two way street and I really think although I find Michael a little judgey I'm betting Alyssa and Erin are both content enough with their own lives to not really let her sanctimony bother them.