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Armed Protesters take over Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge


violynn

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On 2/8/2016 at 3:30 PM, daisyd681 said:

So even if their lawyers successfully argue that this was a sit-in, like the protests of the '60s, they still destroyed government property, broke and entered, and quite a number of other offenses that were not anything like the sit-ins I heard about. It seems like the feds aren't trying to prosecute those that were simply there (sitting-in alone). It looks like they are arresting those that are breaking other laws.

Oh, there was plenty of property destruction in the anti-war activities of the 60's/70's. And the people involved were arrested, tried, and usually received the maximum sentences. Except for the relative handful who came from wealthy families and had excellent lawyers.

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51 minutes ago, church_of_dog said:

One of my friends, noting that Cliven Bundy was arrested in Portland, OR, rather than in Nevada, wanted to know how come he hadn't been on a no-fly list due to the earlier situation?

I wasn't sure if he had ever been charged with anything earlier -- I had the impression the feds had just backed away completely in response to his "standoff" at Bunkerville.  Does anyone know about this?

There was a "hiccup" when he attempted to board in Las Vegas, which meant he took a later flight (he was originally scheduled to travel with Fiore.)  Some speculation has ensued that the delay and separation was intentional.

He was not previously charged, no.  I've found relatively little information about him traveling outside of Bunkerville in the past two years.  My impression is that he has not generally been outside his "perimeter" and when he is, he's been surrounded by armed "guards."

 

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54 minutes ago, church_of_dog said:

One of my friends, noting that Cliven Bundy was arrested in Portland, OR, rather than in Nevada, wanted to know how come he hadn't been on a no-fly list due to the earlier situation?

 

I think the goal was to get him out of Nevada, in a situation where he and everyone around him would almost certainly be unarmed.

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http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/2_more_named_in_indictment_lin.html

 

They arrested two more, Geoffrey Stanek and Travis Cox.

Geoff Stanek facebook

https://www.facebook.com/geoff.stanek

there's this post (snipped):

Quote

...I need to know when you are coming to get your shit! I think it is really fucked up that you just dipped out, didn't pay us rent and so we had to cover your side of the bills! I want the rent money that you owe us and for you to get your stuff. You are supposed to be family but family doesn't doesn't skip out amd leave us hanging with all the fucking bills...

and this response:

Quote

Geoff has been standing Gaurd for your freedoms. He is an incredable brave an honorable man that put his life on the line for many. Please, give him the respect he has earned.

Salute the Gaurd!

http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/xQ_nzBQ_O-r/Anti+Government+Protestors+Occupy+National/MGzQYS5M65Z/Geoff+Stanek

Anti+Government+Protestors+Occupy+Nation

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This is interesting:

From Carol Bundy

To all of you who seem to enjoy reading and commenting about my family, the Cliven Bundy family, whether you think of us as positive or negative, I would like to say a few things. My family took a constitutional stand last April, a stand against a federal government that is out of control. We stood in the face of at least 200-armed men, hired by the federal government to destroy our way of life and our liberty.

What kind of government will allow armed men hired by the BLM, to point their guns at a family that is defending their established water and other rights? And then continue to point their guns at thousand of other Americans that came and stood with us?

OUR RIGHTS ARE DOCUMENTED IN NEVADA RECORDS AND SHOULD BE PROTECTED BY THE STATE OF NEVADA AGAINST FEDERAL OVERREACH AND FORCE. When should a state allow the federal government to “manage” their lands? The BLM tried to “manage” my family out of business, just like they did all my neighbors.

Now for the momma bear instincts! I have an amazing family. I have stood in awe and admiration as I have watched my family act and react to the course of events that have unraveled this past year. We are a normal family with an ordinary life and normal problems, we have been thrust into the limelight that makes our ordinary life and problems hit the headlines of the news and social media almost daily. My family does so much good and we are always ready to help anyone in need. We live modestly and enjoy being together as a family. I am sad that media and the press seem to relish in all the problems and seem to want to drag my family down and make us look like a bunch of unintelligent radicals that do not listen to anyone or obey any laws. That is just not so. My family loves this country. My family loves God. We long for peace and tranquility. And understand the need for law. We are not that type of people the media would like the world to believe.

Momma Carol Bundy

 

 

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1 hour ago, happy atheist said:

Bullshit, lady.

For just a second, I thought that was directed at me.  LOL

It's frightening to me how many people on FB are supporting this line of malarkey.   I'd like to tell them all what utter idiots they come across as - but of course, that would not be productive.  But a girl can dream, right?

Edit:

Nice wrap up by Les Zaitz:

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/protesters_gone_fbi_agents_in.html#incart_river_home

It's been fun following some of these reporters on Twitter - humor, passion, commitment to the trade . . . . 

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6 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

Oh, there was plenty of property destruction in the anti-war activities of the 60's/70's. And the people involved were arrested, tried, and usually received the maximum sentences. Except for the relative handful who came from wealthy families and had excellent lawyers.

And they weren't armed to the teeth and glorifying martyrdom..... 

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The final four holdouts in the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge appeared one by one in federal court Friday afternoon, a day after they surrendered to end a 41-day occupation of the federal bird sanctuary.

Nevada Assemblywoman Michele Fiore, who helped convince them to give up, waved to each from the front row of the packed courtroom in Portland.

David Fry, 27, the last of the occupiers, was led into court wearing a thick full-length anti-suicide smock, his arms and chest bare beneath it.

At the refuge Thursday morning, Fry had said he was feeling suicidal and wanted to die a free man during a livestream broadcast heard by tens of thousands of listeners.

 

 

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I wrote:

Quote

Oh, there was plenty of property destruction in the anti-war activities of the 60's/70's. And the people involved were arrested, tried, and usually received the maximum sentences. Except for the relative handful who came from wealthy families and had excellent lawyers.

to which onlyme responded:

2 hours ago, onlyme said:

And they weren't armed to the teeth and glorifying martyrdom..... 

You know, that's an excellent point. I don't know anyone from that time, including the members of the Minnesota Eight, and other radical groups, who owned a gun of any kind.

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@AmazonGrace, the Valentine's Day cards are funny! (Except the LaVoy Finicum one. Anything about him just makes me sad.)

On another silly note, Ammon Bundy got his own personalized donut from Voodoo Donuts in Portland. 

Afterthought--Has anyone else read the Joe Pickett novels by C.J. Box? They're set in Wyoming and include characters a lot like the Bundys and their associates. I wonder if any of this occupation makes it into a Joe Pickett story someday.

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13 hours ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

There was a "hiccup" when he attempted to board in Las Vegas, which meant he took a later flight (he was originally scheduled to travel with Fiore.)  Some speculation has ensued that the delay and separation was intentional.

He was not previously charged, no.  I've found relatively little information about him traveling outside of Bunkerville in the past two years.  My impression is that he has not generally been outside his "perimeter" and when he is, he's been surrounded by armed "guards."

 

That's what I read also. He rarely left the ranch and when he did,  he was armed and accompanied by several armed men---12-15 guns on or around him at all times. 

He was searched at the gate in the Nevada airport. The FBI did not want to take any chances of there being an armed confrontation in a crowded airport when they arrested him. And he was arrested by a SWAT team. 

I'm guessing they've had his name flagged so that they'd be notified the minute he bought a plane ticket. Inside the airport past security is the perfect place to arrest him;  he and anyone traveling with him would be unarmed but the federal agents could have all the weapons they want. 

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4 hours ago, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

@AmazonGrace, the Valentine's Day cards are funny! (Except the LaVoy Finicum one. Anything about him just makes me sad.)

 

Agreed, they should have taken him off the lineup for the valentine cards once he turned up dead.

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Well, a look back in time is, uh, timely.  I've been googling around trying to find lawyers blogging (speculating) about the proposed Ammon Bundy defense strategy, but didn't find much.  However, all was not lost.  On page 5 of my google search, I found this little gem going back to the original Cliven Bundy standoff in 2014.  It is  a Ted Cruz interview by Texas radio host Chad Hasty from Lubbock, Texas in which Ted blames the Cliven Bundy standoff on....OBAMA!   

Quote

 

Cruz said that since Obama took over, “we have seen our liberty under assault” from a government “hell-bent on expanding its authority over every aspect of our lives.”

He went after Obama for eroding the nation’s constitutional liberties and not understanding the point of the federal government is to be protecting people’s liberties, “not using the jackboot of authoritarianism to come against the citizens.” So the Bundy standoff, Cruz said, “is the unfortunate and tragic culmination of the path that President Obama has set the federal government on.”

 

As if I needed even one more reason to really despise Ted Cruz.  If you want to hear this in Ted's own voice: mediaite.com/online/cruz-bundy-standoff-culmination-of-obamas-jackboot-of-authoritarianism/

On a somewhat related note, a neurologist discusses Why Ted Cruz's expression makes me uneasy in Psychology Today.  My favorite part of the article is at the beginning.  I know it isn't germane to this thread, but the text highlighted below can't go unmentioned. 

Quote

It's surprising how many colleagues and former associates say they "loathe" him. A Bush alumnus told The New York Times' Frank Bruni, “Why do people take such an instant dislike to Ted Cruz? It just saves time.” .... According to The Washington Post, screenwriter Craig Mazin, Cruz's former Princeton roommate, has called him a "huge asshole," and "creepy." He's Tweeted, "Getting emails blaming me for not smothering Ted Cruz in his sleep in 1988." 

psychologytoday.com/blog/the-fallible-mind/201601/why-ted-cruz-s-facial-expression-makes-me-uneasy

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@SpoonfulOSugar, I had the chorus of that ballad stuck in my head while I was falling asleep last night. I don't know whether to blame you or the songwriters. :my_biggrin:

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On 2/13/2016 at 2:49 AM, WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo? said:

@AmazonGrace

Afterthought--Has anyone else read the Joe Pickett novels by C.J. Box? They're set in Wyoming and include characters a lot like the Bundys and their associates. I wonder if any of this occupation makes it into a Joe Pickett story someday.

Just looked at these novels on Amazon.  The guy is prolific, and sounds like my kind of reading.  He also has a new book coming out in early March.  Thanks for  the tip! 

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@Howl, I've enjoyed all his novels, but the third Joe Pickett book,  Winterkill, got a touch weird for my taste. It wasn't the start of a trend. He has avoided that X-Files or Twilight Zone vibe since then.

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10 minutes ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Is a "suicide smock" a euphemism for a straight jacket?

No, I don't think so.

It was described as being much longer and not restricting his arms.

Let me see if I can find the artist's renderings.  (No cameras in the courtroom.)

This is similar:

b201ff_ed9a099dc5cf4f1dbd8a5ed5f65b86d1.

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1 minute ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

No, I don't think so.

It was described as being much longer and not restricting his arms.

Let me see if I can find the artist's renderings.  (No cameras in the courtroom.)

This is correct.  Straight jackets are meant to restrain the patient's or inmate's movement.  Anti-suicide smocks are basically a really ugly sheath dress that is made of a special material that can't be rolled, twisted, etc.  It is basically to prevent hangings, but not to protect others from the patient or inmate like a straight jacket is.

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On 2/12/2016 at 3:44 PM, AmazonGrace said:

is that a recent post, about the rent? because i'm pretty sure i'm on the right fb page (i have to search on the app on my phone as i can't access fb on this computer and if i try to follow the link on my phone, it doesn't open the app only safari, which only has an old password stored and preggie brain cannot remember current password) and yet i don't see anything about that. was it possibly removed?

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