Armed Protesters take over Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge

[SpoonfulOSugar]

10 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

Scroll down to Day 23/January 24 (or a word search on "sumo").  Honestly, it was like the circus was in town.  I feel for the local residents.

Well, that IS an eyeful.  

 

On another subject, I've seen several posters on message boards claiming that the buildings on the refuge were "abandoned."  Is this another case of redefining common words with Bundy meaning, or are they talking about something I am not aware of?

[CTRLZero]

1 minute ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

the buildings on the refuge were "abandoned."

That's an interesting concept.  I imagine they are not as busy there during the winter months so maybe some buildings are shuttered for a seasonal period of time, but I know there is a lot of activity with researchers, birders (Audubon Society, etc., hold classes there), tour groups, and so forth, plus government offices of some sort.  But abandoned, I think that must be a Bundyism.

[Howl]

Winter is the off season at the refuge, which I'm sure does not occur to a lot of people posting on patriot message boards, so not all buildings would be in use.  Winters out there do not look inviting. 

The refuge was closed during the winter holiday when the occupiers went there, and since this planned for such a long time, I'm sure the leaders were well aware of this.  I'm guessing they also knew they were heated! bunk-house style accommodations and a kitchen -- why, just PERFECT!  What more could an occupier ask for?

On the far side of the refuge, a seasonal fire fighter's camp was locked up tight  for fear the occupiers would try to colonize it. 

There is some footage of an occupier sweeping up an empty barn at the Refuge. 

@SpoonfulOSugar, that link you provided was amazing.   I read all the way through, and was almost asleep by the end, just because it was late when I finished.  It is indeed a long and complicated tale, but had many details I was not aware of before.  I thought the bird photographer's letter (we know who you are and we know what you're doing) was one of the more amazing, utterly BAD ASS  things I have ever read.  

Also, on a separate note, sealed indictment(s) were issued yesterday.  There was much pearl clutching among the lawyers who can't yet see the contents, but they may be unsealed today (Thursday).  

 

[CTRLZero]

I agree, that link is a wealth of information and opinions.  We know some bad ass birdwatchers, and they would stand proud with the photographer's statement in Addendum 1, including:

"With our powerful cameras, and ability to move unseen in the wilderness, we have found and documented your illegal hunts, your illegal traps and all sorts of illicit activities, and are constantly feeding that information to law enforcement, and we have finally got many of you poachers on the run and into jails. And I for one am a westerner sick to death of you welfare queens and cheats living off of BLM land, illegally gutting our wilderness and our wildlife..."

[Howl]

@CTRLZero, my bestie works for a birding-specific tour company and I'm getting ready to send her the text of the letter to share with her co-workers. 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

The indictments have been released.

Edit:  Full text here:  http://www.scribd.com/doc/297973639/Bundy-Indictment

It's the original 11, plus the 4 holdouts, plus one who was arrested earlier in a refuge truck:

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/federal_indictment_against_amm.html

[CTRLZero]

39 minutes ago, SpoonfulOSugar said:

The indictments have been released.

Thanks for the links!  This bunch for the most part look like typical career criminals - no fixed address (unless living with mom or grandma), no employment (current or prospective), sleep with guns...

I wonder why they ever thought this was a good idea.

[Howl]

Quote

OregonLive!

BURNS – The four remaining holdouts at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge say they are down to a single link to the outside world – an FBI-provided cell phone.  

Our favorite Chatty Cathy, David Fry,  

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said in a radio program interview taped and broadcast Wednesday that the occupiers were told service to their personal cells would be disrupted.

"One of the FBI guys put a cell phone, one of the FBI cell phones, in a car up here that I picked up," Fry said. "They're going to cut off all our personal cell phones soon."

If true,  it's intriguing that it's a development that roughly coincides with the inclusion of the Final Four in the indictment usealed this morning.  Oh, to be a fly on the tarp when they get the news. 

 

 

[AmazonGrace]

Interesting that they're so paranoid and yet willing to touch  an "FBI provided cellphone"

[AmazonGrace]

Prayer in this video 

 

(paraphrased)

god you and i know my position in your army, so i'm calling for the winds to come forth from north and south and east and west, bring guardian angels, cause them to see the battle they're going to came against if they touch these kids and in the mighty name of jesus I call a hedge of protection all around them we praise you we thank you for their bravery ,. make the angels do something that these men will run away like the scared rats they are, bring out all the secrets and all the corruption, in jesus name let the armies march down here, i thank you that this miracle is going to be one that you get all the glory and honor for, i'm not special but these kids are, i'm trusting you to cast every demon to hell, in jesus name 

 

Which of the occupiers are "kids"? 

[CTRLZero]

6 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

god you and i know my position in your army, so i'm calling for the winds to come forth

I guess his position is Windbag.

It's scary how many of these people are out there.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

2 hours ago, CTRLZero said:

I guess his position is Windbag.

It's scary how many of these people are out there.

It sure is.

Couple of other interesting elements:  

1.  Ammon's lawyers are fundraising for him here

https://www.fundedjustice.com/en/projects/28054-Ammon-Bundy---Legal-Defense-Fund

It seems to me that if they were really getting soooooooooooo much support, he'd have more $$$ coming in.  (I'm very glad he doesn't.)

2.  Youtube from the attorneys as well

 

It seems to me that they might be better served being quiet at this point, but . . . IANAL.

 

[Howl]

Well, Ammon Bundy didn't really need to be in court yesterday because the indictment was still sealed, correct?  I think most normal people can see through his "I'm a political prisoner" shtick;  it might play well in Bundy-stan but don't think it will play well in Peoria -- or to a judge. Although he can control his own narrative by sending out recordings through his attorney,  I hope it will sink in a some point that he is no longer calling the shots and he has a snowball's chance in hell of getting what he wants out of this.   

@AmazonGrace,  David Fry would be The Kid based on his emotional age rather than his chronological age, which I think is 27 or 28.  The Andersons are in their 40s.  Jeff B is late 40s, early 50s?

 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

There WASN"T a hearing yesterday.  The hearing he wanted to be there for was stricken.  It was a moot event, so he didn't need to be transported.  I feel exasperated reading all the angst about how his rights are being ignored and how not allowing him bail is some great miscarriage of justice.

It really makes me want to tell them how ridiculous they sound . . . but of course, there's no point in that.

Anyone think the judge will issue a gag order?

[Howl]

Con man, YouTube gasbag, self-styled "reporter",  megaphone screamer and general douche canoe Pete Santilli isn't going home: 

Quote

OregonLive!

U.S. District Court Chief Justice Michael W. Mosman affirmed a decision to detain Pete Santili pending trial, saying he was disturbed by several remarks Santilli made during his online broadcasts promising to shoot federal officers if they came to take him or his guns away.

Someone commented that Pete's full-camo-occupier outfit was topped off by a fishing vest rather than a tactical vest, which is a major misstep with this crowd, which could mean he's actually undercover FBI, or agent provocateur, and the whole deal is a  false flag operation or something.   On a lighter note, his fishing vest sported a "Domestic Tourist" patch.  Get it?  They're just normal, heavily armed, fanatical government hating tourists visiting a wildlife refuge! and NOT domestic terrorists! 

 

@AmazonGrace

Quote

   Interesting that they're so paranoid and yet willing to touch  an "FBI provided cellphone"

Tee hee.  The FBI must be high fiving like mad at the gullibility of these guys.   I can't even imagine how many FBI betting pools are going on right now. 

 

@SpoonfulOSugar 

Quote

Anyone think the judge will issue a gag order?

Interesting point.  Do any of the judges' release orders prohibit use of social media by the defendants?  Bundy's lawyers are allowing him to speak through turning attorney-client privilege on its head.  There are first amendment rights and issues all over the place. Shawna Cox's attorney is arguing freedom of religion in an appeal to allow Shawna to attend LaVoy Finicum's funeral this afternoon.  

[SpoonfulOSugar]

On 2/5/2016 at 9:34 AM, Howl said:

Interesting point.  Do any of the judges' release orders prohibit use of social media by the defendants?  Bundy's lawyers are allowing him to speak through turning attorney-client privilege on its head.  There are first amendment rights and issues all over the place. Shawna Cox's attorney is arguing freedom of religion in an appeal to allow Shawna to attend LaVoy Finicum's funeral this afternoon.  

Cox was allowed to go to the funeral, but was prohibited from gathering or speaking out.  I don't think anyone at this point has been prohibited from using social media, though.

Cliven Bundy was at the funeral with armed guards.

Lots of media coverage of the funeral.  I found the Oregonian's coverage to be a bit over-the-top; the NY Times was more objective.

Most interesting to me right now is this, written by John Sepulvado and colleagues of the OPB:

http://www.opb.org/news/series/burns-oregon-standoff-bundy-militia-news-updates/legal-ethics-ammon-bundy-lawyer-oregon-refuge-occupation/

Not just an ethical issue to me - if they were really advising in the early stages, I wonder if they can't be considered part of the conspiracy.  (Attorney client-privilege doesn't apply if you advise a group of people to break the law, does it?)

Also, it still seems that nothing will be done to "rescue" the FabFour today.  BJ Soper was organizing a group to go in and escort them out arm-in-arm, but he's stood down.  

I snoop a bit on the FB pages, but I run out of give-a-damn.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Just posted on the Oregonian:

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/30_minutes_of_chaos_witness_de.html#incart_most-commented_pacific-northwest-news_article

Haven't really digested it yet, but clearly, standing mute is NOT the game plan for these jokers - and any prohibitions on interviews either don't exist or aren't being followed . . . . . 

[Howl]

Been wondering what went on in the truck when Ryan Payne  jumped out and they raced away from the first stop and now I know.  Ryan Payne was smart to bail out.  Somehow, I doubt the he was shot at while his hands were out the window.  Still a mystery why the Bundy "body guard" in the Jeep was released with no charges, but likely by that point in time, LE knew exactly who was in the vehicles and who they wanted to arrest. 

Also, I'm assuming that the contents of Ryan Bundy's phone and Cox's phone will come out with the police report that is still a month to a month and a half away.  However, if they were all hunkered down there won't be much video, but the audio will be interesting.   

Reading the Cox version, it sounds like Victoria Sharpe spend most of the time yelling and screaming; she's the one that claimed that the truck was peppered with hundreds of rounds and LaVoy Finicum was shot with his hands in the air.

Quote

 

Payne rolled down his window and thrust his hands out. "That very second, I see a red laser light, right by the mirror," Cox said. "I heard the ping – they shot at him. He jumped back.  I thought it hit his bracelet."   Victoria Sharp panicked at the noise.  "They're shooting at us!" she screamed.

Finicum told the women to get out if they wanted to, but Sharp was terrified of being shot. Cox said her motherly instinct took over and she chose to stay to protect Sharp.

Sharp was screaming "They're trying to kill us" and then at the top of her lungs yelled at police to stop.   Cox joined in and the firing did stop. 

 

That girl must have a serious set of pipes.  

If I'm understanding correctly,  the time between when Finicum speeds away and when he is shot and everyone is out of the truck is under 5 minutes and maybe less.  

Y'all may recall that the episode was recorded by a north-bound motorist on his way to John Day who was stopped on the south side of the second road block;  he heard only 5 or 6 shots total. 

Wonder what's up with Ammon's lawyers?  I'm think they saw this as their big chance and they were doing some constitutional ambulance chasing. 

LaVoy's attorney was Todd MacFarlane, who also visited the occupation and blogs (and blogs, blogs, blogs, blogs, blogs and blogs some more) at pahvantpost.com/   

Apparently,  Cliven Bundy dislikes Todd MacFarlane, dating to  before the events in Bundy-stan in 2014, although he's known the Bunys for more than 20 years. 

 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

This is an interesting analysis.  I think I would have placed some elements differently, but it is what it is:

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/02/post_6.html

My burning question (the one on my mind this second) is what LaVoy was carrying that particular day . . . the "he left all his weapons at camp" meme doesn't match Cox's story.  I think he had the weapon under his left arm just as the FBI reported.

[Howl]

When I first watched the video, I had not read anyone's interpretation of LaVoy's movements after he exited the truck.  What I did see is a man who looked one way and saw an armed law officer;  looked the other way and saw another law officer, and at that point knew it was all over - a surrender or die moment. 

This is a guy who is always shown armed -- a gun at his right hip, a holstered gun under his left arm,  always a knife in a scabbard front and center, maybe all three at once.  I don't think he set off  to John Day unarmed; it would be totally out of character. That said, reports are he had a 9mm in a gun pocket in his jacket.  I googled "gun pocket in jacket" and came up with a ton of photos; they are called tactical jackets at Cabela's and are designed for concealed carry: 

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Designed specifically for fast access to a concealed handgun, this jacket features two vertical Quixip® zippers on the sides

One thing from the link you posted that was new to me is that he was yelling for LE to shoot him as early as the first time he stopped and that would have been relayed to officers at the 2nd road block.  If that doesn't telegraph suicide by cop, I don't know what would 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

This is a guy who is always shown armed -- a gun at his right hip, a holstered gun under his left arm,  always a knife in a scabbard front and center, maybe all three at once.  I don't think he set off  to John Day unarmed; it would be totally out of character. That said, reports are he had a 9mm in a gun pocket in his jacket.  I googled "gun pocket in jacket" and came up with a ton of photos; they are called tactical jackets at Cabela's and are designed for concealed carry: 

That's a fascinating find.  Here's a picture of LaVoy:

Here's an Amazon tactical jacket:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00URS7WSI/ref=twister_B00URQAFQG

 

[AmazonGrace]

David Fry is communicado again: 

 

 

[Howl]

@AmazonGrace, Awesome find!  David Fry, alas, doesn't sound dispirited in the least.  Sad that the thing these guys do best is......nothing.   Derp.   Seriously, FBI, send these guys a six pack or Big Macs laced with LSD and get this over with.  We're hurting out here, FBI,  Waiting for Godot. 

I woke up this morning thinking about the Final Four and that led to thinking about the Wizard of Oz and how each one of these holdouts simply lack courage to face their lives, like the Cowardly Lion and lack Wisdom, like the Scarecrow, on the best way forward -- the best way forward, of course, is moving on out and surrendering and facing up to the circumstances they've created in their lives.  

On the other hand, each of the Oz characters already possessed the characteristics they wished for; these guys, maybe not so much. 

 

Or what about this: Build a little permanent occupation spot for them with a little shed and tarps, off to one and let them stay, but never leave.  They could become a permanent exhibit at the Refuge and never have to surrender -- like a living history exhibit, a domestic Guantanao.  Win win! 

 

 

 

[AmazonGrace]

@HowlLike a zoo? Please don't throw Cheetos at the occupiers, their regular snack time is at 4pm.

[salex]

On 2/3/2016 at 5:50 PM, Cleopatra7 said:

Given that most, perhaps all, of the "protesters" are Mormon, I'm not sure what Franklin Graham thinks he can do. The entire point of the Latter Day Saints movement is that mainstream Christianity had become corrupt, and Joseph Smith restored Christianity to how god intended. If anything, Graham would be a symbol of everything they're against.

He can get his name in the news.