Armed Protesters take over Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge

[violynn]

Woke up to this terrifying news this morning:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/03/us/oregon-wildlife-refuge-protest/index.html

 

(CNN)A group of armed protesters have taken over a building in a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon, accusing officials of unfairly punishing ranchers who refused to sell their land, a spokesman for the group told CNN.

The protesters occupied part of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge near Burns after a march supporting Dwight and Steven Hammond, two ranchers who are convicted of arson.

....

After the march Saturday, the armed protesters broke into the refuge's unoccupied building and refused to leave.

"We will be here as long as it takes," said Ammon Bundy, a spokesman for the group. "We have no intentions of using force upon anyone, (but) if force is used against us, we would defend ourselves."

Bundy is the 40-year-old son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, who drew national attention last year after staging a standoff with federal authorities over a Bureau of Land Management dispute.

Ammon Bundy said the group in Oregon was armed, but said he would not describe it as a militia. Bundy declined to say how many people were occupying the building.

"We are not terrorists," he said. "We are concerned citizens and realize we have to act if we want to pass along anything to our children."

[bashfulpixie]

If they're heavily armed and threatening violence, how is this not terrorism of some sort?  These nut jobs and their followers terrify me.

People want to peacefully protest the government? I'm all for it. Once you add guns and violence, it's not longer peaceful IMO, even if they aren't fired.

[notfundy]

I have been following this since last night... several thoughts.  

Can you even imagine if a group of Black Lives Matter activists - or heaven forbid - Muslims - had taken over a federal building? Can you even IMAGINE the response? The National Guard would be out there already.

These guys are heavily armed and white, so they are a militia, not terrorists.  Ok. Sure.   And they want to "take back the land for the people".  Funny - their white ancestors took this land from some other people - Native Americans.  A little ironic.

And the local authorities are negotiating with them.  I understand; no one wants loss of life.  

But it is frustrating to me that these guys even have a platform to speak nationally now.  Hell, CNN had the guy (Ammon Bundy, of the Nevada Bundy family fame) on at 8am (6am Oregon time) to state his demands, which are vague.  They do not like the fact that the federal Bureau of Land Affairs and the Fish & Wildlife people are protecting these lands for environmental purposes.

That is, the evil government does not allow unlimited mining, logging and poaching of animals.  The family that this group is protecting was convincted of arson for setting fire to goverment lands.  

We need laws to operate within a civil society.   The way to make change is to vote, not to occupy a building. 

And they are calling for other (armed) patriots to join them!  They say they are prepared to occupy the building and land "for years".  Someone is going to get hurt.   

[Arete]

The government is going to tip toe around them because of Waco and Ruby Ridge.  There will be a blood bath if they try to dislodge them by force and that only creates martyrs for their fucking cause.  

[church_of_dog]

39 minutes ago, bashfulpixie said:

If they're heavily armed and threatening violence, how is this not terrorism of some sort?  These nut jobs and their followers terrify me.

Apparently it's because they said "we are not terrorists."  Who'da thunk that's all it takes?  If only ISIS would say that, we could all go back to sleep!   /sarcasm

39 minutes ago, bashfulpixie said:

People want to peacefully protest the government? I'm all for it. Once you add guns and violence, it's not longer peaceful IMO, even if they aren't fired.

Agreed.  Plus, they are trespassing by being inside a federal office building.  Thankfully there are no employees inside, but still -- their offices, equipment, etc. is all vulnerable.  I haven't worked for the feds in over ten years, and this incident is neither my agency nor my location, but it hits close to home, both geographically and because I worked for environmental/land management agencies, and I can feel violated just in sympathy with the FWS employees in Burns OR.  

Also, there is any amount of confidential information in a government office building -- who knows what these yay-hoos might be going through, looking at or destroying:  just as an example, since this is a land management agency -- location of certain kinds of archaeological sites is generally kept confidential, to protect from vandals.  Locations of nests/dens of endangered species is also sometimes confidential, to protect against the "shoot shovel and shut up" mentality that these guys often represent.  Presumably that data is in locked files, but who knows.

I was astounded when I first learned how much political power the ranching/cattleman's lobby has -- whatever their current or local issues are, might shape what information or data is at risk of being damaged or destroyed in that building.  If I was in charge of that building I might consider having the electricity and water shut off, but would have to consider if that would just trigger violence or vandalism even sooner.

On the other hand, from the quote in the article, it doesn't seem like they're very clear on what they want, so maybe they will end up leaving in confusion as soon as they feel placated.  But how can they leave without getting arrested, for trespassing at a minimum even if there is no violence or vandalism?  It seems to me that they have painted themselves into a corner in a way that will not end well.

[notfundy]

Yup - - agreed that law enforcement will tread lightly because of Waco & Ruby Ridge; those ended very badly.  

It is just frustrating to me that there may not be any consequences at all, and this will embolden these guys to do this again and again.  Using up scarce public resources and putting law enforcement officers at risk.  

And then in the back of my mind is the thought that (some of) the Republican candidates encourage this kind of stuff, either implicitly or explicity, with their rhetoric about "getting the government off the backs of the people".   Specifically thinking about tea-partier Ted Cruz here.   

Not sure why this "mini-siege" is making me so angry and frustrated this morning.  

Twitter is using the hashtag "OregonUnderAttack"  and I can see CNN picking up on that theme (CUE OMINOUS MUSIC).  

[doggie]

cut off their supply of cheeto's and beer and it won't last long.  really has others have said this is a white thing that only whited can get away with.

[Childless]

I would shut off water and electricity.  I'm pretty sure they have only a limited amount of food and liquid in there.  They'll come out when they get hungry or thirsty enough.  I'm sure they don't have the fortitude to last very long.  They're a bunch of coddled ranchers, not ISIS trained militants.

[WhiteRun]

Let me get this straight:
This started with a PEACEFUL(!!!) march regarding 2 brothers who were convicted of arson.
It went wrong when armed anti-government militia broke into a federal wildlife building.
Their aim is to revolt against the federal government  (and loosely to give these local farmers the rights back to their own land).
They are making such outrageous claims like they are willing to be killed for their cause, which frankly will probably make the police involved more on edge and freaked out about their next action. 
To me this sounds like anti-government protesters just happened to find a convenient way to shake up the government. 
And for the sake of everyone involved as well as all those who died in Waco and Ruby Ridge, I hope it ends peacefully. 
 

[DarkAnts]

1 hour ago, WhiteRun said:

Let me get this straight:
This started with a PEACEFUL(!!!) march regarding 2 brothers who were convicted of arson.
It went wrong when armed anti-government militia broke into a federal wildlife building.
Their aim is to revolt against the federal government  (and loosely to give these local farmers the rights back to their own land).
They are making such outrageous claims like they are willing to be killed for their cause, which frankly will probably make the police involved more on edge and freaked out about their next action. 
To me this sounds like anti-government protesters just happened to find a convenient way to shake up the government. 
And for the sake of everyone involved as well as all those who died in Waco and Ruby Ridge, I hope it ends peacefully. 
 

It was a father and son. Both of them are planning on going to the federal prison on Monday. The white terrorist group is in no way associated with them. The terrorist group is just doing what terrorists do being assholes.

[gustava]

WHITE DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

[notfundy]

9 minutes ago, gustava said:

WHITE DOMESTIC TERRORISM.

I actually wish the media would call it this way.  Or not even cover it at all.    & technically aren't they enemy combatants?

The Bundy family reported that at least 150 people were there in the building. Maybe even 300!  

Yet a a local guy went out there to deliver some chili to these "patriots" and reported seeing.....oh.... about fifteen people.   

 

[PennySycamore]

46 minutes ago, notfundy said:

I actually wish the media would call it this way.  Or not even cover it at all.    & technically aren't they enemy combatants?

The Bundy family reported that at least 150 people were there in the building. Maybe even 300!  

Yet a a local guy went out there to deliver some chili to these "patriots" and reported seeing.....oh.... about fifteen people.   

 

Did you happen to see ABC "News"s tweet about it?  I think that the tweet has since been deleted, but it's here in all its lying infamy, captured on RawStory: 

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/abc-killed-journalism-saturday-night-by-using-this-one-weird-tweet/comments/

[onlyme]

http://www.wweek.com/2016/01/02/militia-group-takes-over-federal-building-in-eastern-oregon-because-the-lord-was-not-pleased/

 

I wonder which Lord He's talking about? 

[church_of_dog]

I wish we were privy to what the USFWS and law enforcement are thinking/doing.  It really has little to do with the essence of their argument -- when they chose such an egregious (if marginally nonviolent so far) method of protesting, that has become its own issue, just or unjust cause aside.

I also wonder how they gained entrance to the building in the first place.  If it was closed for the holiday as I saw mentioned, that means they presumably broke a door or window to get in.  Again, a serious crime considering it's a federal building.

I am just agog at this whole thing.

[salex]

The lord he made in his own image

 

[Howl]

Admin, you may want to merge with Not Snark: Armed Protesters Take Over Oregon Wildlife Refuge posted by ViolynnKelly

[sawasdee]

I can't believe that anyone gives eejits like this a second thought - who are the other eejits supporting them? They are breaking the law, and claiming they have a right to do so under the Constitution - can you hear the Founding Fathers rotating in their graves?

[47of74]

I think we all know, based on past behavior of law enforcement, exactly what the reaction would have been if these were a bunch of non whites doing this shit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE#1985_bombing

Back in 1985 the Philadelphia police firebombed a row house that MOVE had occupied.  Firefighters let the fire spread and it destroyed 61 houses in the process.  11 people died in the blaze, including 5 children.  More than 250 people were left homeless.

 

[onlyme]

Oops, sorry. I didn't think to check there before starting the thread. 

[onlyme]

But if they do respond that way it will prove the point to other anti-government sympathizers and perhaps motivate them to "rise up" as well. 

If you listen to the guy's video, it's clear he expects to die. He's practically begging for a shoot out. It's really, really sad to listen to him saying goodbye to his wife and two daughters. 

I agree they should shut off all the power and leave them there-or at lest let them think they left them there. It's really cold out there in Central Oregon this time of year. Let it all thud with an anti-climatic thud and then arrest him as they start driving home. It would be this guys worst case scenario and hopefully embarrassing so nobody will want to emulate it. 

[Howl]

This isn't an exactly parallel situation, but probably all of these situation have the same genesis in the Sagebrush Rebellion of the 70s and 80s and are related to current local feelings about government overreach in southeastern Utah and elsewhere.  Recapture Canyon is in southeastern Utah between Blanding, UT and Monticello, UT.  Recapture Canyon contains fragile Anasazi cliff dwellings and the BLM closed it to 4-wheeler traffic to help protect these ruins.  In general, you'll likely drive through this area if you are touristing around between Monument Valley and Moab.  

Recapture Canyon protesters found guilty in Utah:  County commissioner and co-defendant face up to a year in jail for illegal ATV ride.  High Country News covered this incident and compare/contrasts the Cliven Bundy issue.  The Recapture Canyon incident also involved heavily armed men (with wives and children around, of course).  BLM didn't directly confront, because who wants to exchange gunfire with women and children present + it isn't worth dying over.  Just wait and file charges later. I was happy (and surprised) to see these two convicted. 

Worth a read to understand the different issues involved.  

hcn.org/articles/recapture-canyon-protesters-found-guilty

Just so y'all know where I'm coming from, I consider Cliven Bundy to be a complete asshole, a bully, a thug and a flat-out lying thief and ditto for his son. 

Now for some history, in 1994, this same issue (with probably some of the same players) erupted on the Malheur Wildlife Refuge and High Country News covered it:

Ranchers arrested at wildlife refuge    hcn.org/issues/20/582

Raw Story expose of the ABC tweet has some fabulous comments -- hope it's ok to quote part of one here

Quote

 

from General Public

Traitorous anti-American white supremacist far-right-wing militant extremist home-grown radicalized terrorist insurgent group initiates attempt at armed coup against legitimately elected U.S. government through violent ISIS-style takeover of federal building and surrounding territory in Oregon and declare occupied federal building capital of their self-declared newly independent terrorist state, hoping to launch a Syrian-style civil war here in the U.S., and treasonous anti-American terrorist-sympathizing Fox News anchors declare their allegiance to this new terrorist state in newly released explicit shocking propaganda broadcasts and get away with it, exploiting loophole in First Amendment that allows for terrorist recruitment and propaganda broadcasts to somehow be legal...

 

ETA: Also, it may be that the residents of Burns, OR are getting pissed off at these out-of-town protesters disrupting their lives. 

There were/are TWO things going on.  First, there was a peaceful march Saturday through Burns, OR in support of the local  ranchers who are going to prison.  The "militia" occupation of the building at the wildlife refuge sounds like a completely separate event by out-of-town protesters. Unfortunately, this will attract legions of heavily armed nut cases like flies to sh*t (similar to the Bundy deal) and things could get extremely volatile.  The best government response is....nothing, absolutely nothing, except block access to the building, cut off electricity and water and jam electronics in the building.  No food, no heat, no water, no communication.  Things inside should implode pretty quick.  

[church_of_dog]

Thank you, @Howl for the references.  I love High Country News.  I'm a subscriber, and I'm pretty sure I was a subscriber back in 1994, but with so many topics and so many issues, I didn't remember this.  It adds important context about how long these disputes, including some of these same individuals, have been going on.

Yes, I don't understand how they were able to have food delivered -- doesn't law enforcement have a perimeter blocked, even if it's out at the Refuge boundary?  Definitely should be preventing more people from arriving, as well as any kind of supplies coming in.  No water, no electric, turn off the propane (if they can get that close).  Their low temps the last few days were in the negative teens, as in -14F and -18F, from what I read.  Even now it's not getting much above freezing as a daytime high.  Arrests for trespassing and breaking and entering sound like the most peaceful resolution possible, but it is sure possible this will end up going in a whole other direction.

[Jeebusismycopilot]

7 hours ago, bashfulpixie said:

If they're heavily armed and threatening violence, how is this not terrorism of some sort?

Sadly, because they are white christians. Good ol' red blooded 'Merkins.  They couldn't be terrorists! If any other group did this, people would be up in arms. It's unfortunate and I do hope for a speedy and peaceful resolution. 

[FloraKitty35]

Fox News (if they mention this at all) will build them up as "patriots".  These kind of people scare me way more than ISIS.