Joe 'n' Carlin Sittin' in a Tree?

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1 hour ago, sockinshoe said:

First, you're right. Her looking at him means nothing. We're extrapolating that she has a crush. She may very well not. However, if they were to enter into a courtship, which seems to be what people here are hoping for, she'd most likely end up marrying him (which, in these circles, means complete subservience for life). 

Second, essentially, see above. However, if they were to enter into a romantic relationship (which, again, is what people are rooting for), it would all proceed fairly quickly. This is mostly due to the total prohibition on alone time/physical contact before marriage. So, they'd be rushing to get to a point where they could have sexual relations. Which, as has been noted many times on this very forum, is a terrible idea.

Third, her parents married her sister Jessa off to an unemployed teenager. Josh married Anna months after her 20th birthday because HER father had expressed the wish that she not marry before 20. Joy's own parents were teens when they married (her mother was still a minor). The Bateses saw Alyssa married at barely 20, iirc. 

Finally, my "flipping my shit", as you so eloquently put it, is predicated on bewilderment that FJ-ites would be hoping for another undereducated young woman to be married off to a headship. You say that you're just noting them looking at each other. But that very quickly becomes hoping for a courtship and a wedding and babies. It's nowhere near the end of the world. I just find it a bit distasteful that we would want Joy married off.

Regarding the age gap, you and I seem to disagree. On paper, 5 years at 18 may not seem like a big deal (to me, it would have been), however once you add all the other stuff (the patriarchal cult) it is a pretty big gulf for two people at totally different points in their lives. If she has a crush on him, that's fine. I had crushes on boys way older than me. If the crush is returned and they begin courting, that's a problem. She's barely legal, treated like a child, and totally unempowered. She's kept naive and uneducated. Sure, he lives at home, but he doesn't share a room with all his little siblings; he has work experience, financial independence, and a lot more autonomy than she has ever experienced. Eyeing each other is fine. "Dating with a purpose" to get married in the next few years worries me.

Your argument could be used for literally any fundie courtship though. 

When I say I am routing for a courtship or I think two fundies would be cute together I am doing so with the understanding that as long as they follow their teachings they will never have an equal or particularly healthy relationship. I am always routing for these kids to decided to walk away from how there were raised, even if it is just in a small way. However that isn't realistic. It's also not as though me saying that these two would make an entertaining couple or saying I think Joy Anna might have crush is in anyway going to influence their lives. 

[BunnyBee]

I don't know if this has been discussed and I am trying to get a screencap on my computer, but I just watched Michaella Bates wedding and right before they share their first kiss there is a panning shot of the audience and Carlin is sitting right between Joe and Joy and they are like oddly away from the rest of the group. I literally rewinded and tried to pause on them several times but its blurry due to the motion of the shot, but when the shot plays you can clearly see its them. I think Joy might be Carlin and Joe's accountability partner.... I think there might be some actual depth to this speculation FJer's 

[BunnyBee]

Okay here is the screen cap

Josie and other Bates are not sitting around them, also random people on either side of Joy and Joe.

[actuallyjessica]

If it's true it also could be why Carlin keeps teasing Tori about getting married. Especially since she's the oldest sister at home and seemingly no boyfriend yet.

[BunnyBee]

Just now, actuallyjessica said:

If it's true it also could be why Carlin keeps teasing Tori about getting married. Especially since she's the oldest sister at home and seemingly no boyfriend yet.

And Joe and Carlin have been spotted sitting together previously, although this thread derailed into a Joy/Lawson speculation, I really think it is Joe and Carlin

[Percy]

My speculation is that Joe and Carlin got to know each other when Joe was at college.  Now things may get serious and Joe needs a job and money to set up his own household, hence the move back to Dad and a job.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

2 hours ago, BunnyBee said:

I don't know if this has been discussed and I am trying to get a screencap on my computer, but I just watched Michaella Bates wedding and right before they share their first kiss there is a panning shot of the audience and Carlin is sitting right between Joe and Joy and they are like oddly away from the rest of the group. I literally rewinded and tried to pause on them several times but its blurry due to the motion of the shot, but when the shot plays you can clearly see its them. I think Joy might be Carlin and Joe's accountability partner.... I think there might be some actual depth to this speculation FJer's 

Honestly, I wouldn't put much stock into it. Joy is Carlin's best friend and vice versa. And, Carlin is sitting angled towards Joy, not Joe. I would think that, if anything romantic was going on, her body would be at least neutral, if not more towards him.

Could it be that there's some Joe/other girl action going on and the two of them offered to chaperon? (I can't see who is on the other side of him.) Or, could they be seated with another family the 3 of them are close with? Or, could it just be a thing the producers did to keep speculations going without revealing the true couple (if there is even a true couple)?

That said, it wouldn't be that shocking if there are multiple pairings between the Duggars and Bateses, especially as we go further down the line.

[ClaraOswin]

I haven't been following this thread. And I still don't really follow the Bateseseses at all. Was Carlin not a bridesmaid for this wedding? Weird that she'd be sitting with those two, for sure.

[choralcrusader8613]

2 minutes ago, ClaraOswin said:

I haven't been following this thread. And I still don't really follow the Bateseseses at all. Was Carlin not a bridesmaid for this wedding? Weird that she'd be sitting with those two, for sure.

She wasn't. Tori, Erin, and, Kelly were in the party (as was Jana), and the rest of her party were Brandon's relatives.

[BunnyBee]

1 hour ago, ClaraOswin said:

I haven't been following this thread. And I still don't really follow the Bateseseses at all. Was Carlin not a bridesmaid for this wedding? Weird that she'd be sitting with those two, for sure.

whats even weirder is Josie and the rest of the bates sat in the front row together, and the Duggars sat elsewhere too. The seat next to Joy is empty and the seat next to Joe is someone I don't recognize. And they are a couple of rows back. I definitely think "special friendships" are occurring.  

As for the body language I think it is just the angle of the shot

[actuallyjessica]

I haven't been following this thread. And I still don't really follow the Bateseseses at all. Was Carlin not a bridesmaid for this wedding? Weird that she'd be sitting with those two, for sure.

She wasn't. Tori, Erin, and, Kelly were in the party (as was Jana), and the rest of her party were Brandon's relatives.

Alyssa was, too.

[halcionne]

I noticed these three sitting off by themselves when I watched the episode, too, which is saying something, because I don't notice much. I never notice when fundie girls and women wear pants, for instance, or Michelle's damned green shirts, until one of you points it out.

The other thing I noticed is the order they're seated in. I may be reading too much into it, but it seems to me that both Duggars wanted to sit next to Carlin (that's how things work when I'M siting in a group of three, at least), whereas, let's say Joy and Carlin wanted to sit together and Joe went along for accountability purposes, I would expect to see Joy in the middle.

Or Carlin could be in the middle because Joy and Joe are happy to sit next to someone they haven't seen in a while, or someone who isn't a Duggar, lol.

I'm intrigued by this development. Carlin will be 18 in April; maybe we'll get an announcement then?

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

8 minutes ago, halcionne said:

I noticed these three sitting off by themselves when I watched the episode, too, which is saying something, because I don't notice much. I never notice when fundie girls and women wear pants, for instance, or Michelle's damned green shirts, until one of you points it out.

The other thing I noticed is the order they're seated in. I may be reading too much into it, but it seems to me that both Duggars wanted to sit next to Carlin (that's how things work when I'M siting in a group of three, at least), whereas, let's say Joy and Carlin wanted to sit together and Joe went along for accountability purposes, I would expect to see Joy in the middle.

Or Carlin could be in the middle because Joy and Joe are happy to sit next to someone they haven't seen in a while, or someone who isn't a Duggar, lol.

I'm intrigued by this development. Carlin will be 18 in April; maybe we'll get an announcement then?

But, don't accountability partners with "specially friendships" or courtships in the Duggar household sit BETWEEN the people who are "friends"/courting?

[halcionne]

2 minutes ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

But, don't accountability partners with "specially friendships" or courtships in the Duggar household sit BETWEEN the people who are "friends"/courting?

I don't pay enough attention to be sure (and of course every family will have its own policy), but I don't think so? Michelle squeezed in between Ben and Jessa in his pickup, but I feel like I've seen special friends sit side by side in less cramped situations. I can only think of the Mortons and other VFers right now, for some reason, and they might be more relaxed than the Duggars and Bateses. I stopped watching the show before Jessa and Jill's courtships were aired, so I really don't know what I'm talking about here. XD

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

1 minute ago, halcionne said:

I don't pay enough attention to be sure (and of course every family will have its own policy), but I don't think so? Michelle squeezed in between Ben and Jessa in his pickup, but I feel like I've seen special friends sit side by side in less cramped situations. I can only think of the Mortons and other VFers right now, for some reason, and they might be more relaxed than the Duggars and Bateses. I stopped watching the show before Jessa and Jill's courtships were aired, so I really don't know what I'm talking about here. XD

I didn't really follow the courtships beyond commentary on here, but I did catch a few episodes and a lot of pictures. I could have sworn that's what they did for the most part. Like, when they're courting they're allowed the timed side hug and such, but I could have sworn that they tried to keep them separated to avoid temptations. Like there was the Michelle moment, the Jim Bob swooping in and separating Jill/Derick moment, the younger kids having to stand between Ben and Jessa (?) so they wouldn't touch during prayers, etc.

[actuallyjessica]

I noticed these three sitting off by themselves when I watched the episode, too, which is saying something, because I don't notice much. I never notice when fundie girls and women wear pants, for instance, or Michelle's damned green shirts, until one of you points it out. [emoji3]

The other thing I noticed is the order they're seated in. I may be reading too much into it, but it seems to me that both Duggars wanted to sit next to Carlin (that's how things work when I'M siting in a group of three, at least), whereas, let's say Joy and Carlin wanted to sit together and Joe went along for accountability purposes, I would expect to see Joy in the middle.

Or Carlin could be in the middle because Joy and Joe are happy to sit next to someone they haven't seen in a while, or someone who isn't a Duggar, lol.

I'm intrigued by this development. Carlin will be 18 in April; maybe we'll get an announcement then?

But, don't accountability partners with "specially friendships" or courtships in the Duggar household sit BETWEEN the people who are "friends"/courting?

Maybe Joe and Joy are courting.

I jest.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

1 minute ago, actuallyjessica said:

Maybe Joe and Joy are courting.

I jest.

Haha I was going to make a similar joke myself, but I figured everyone and their mother would jump on me about how inappropriate it was..

[nastyhobbitses]

33 minutes ago, actuallyjessica said:

Maybe Joe and Joy are courting.

I jest.

One time I saw a picture of Jana standing next to a tree. Mrs. Jana Larch 2k16.

[ClaraOswin]

Jill and Derick were practically sitting on top of each other in the tuk-tuk before they were officially courting. So I don't think it's "required" to have someone sit between.

[Bad Wolf]

I think M is more concerned about couples sitting next to each other than JB. JB moved Derrick away when he put his arm around Jill in Nepal.  M put a child between Jessa and Ben when they were holding hands in a circle praying, because they may have been overcome with lust. Jebus would approve. 

[halcionne]

And both parents would care more than a sibling, so if the sib is supposed to sit in the middle but there aren't any parents around to enforce it... 

[choralcrusader8613]

48 minutes ago, halcionne said:

And both parents would care more than a sibling, so if the sib is supposed to sit in the middle but there aren't any parents around to enforce it... 

Yeah, Joy definitely comes off as a sibling who would be more chill about making sure i's were dotted and t's were crossed with regards to courtship rules.

[CorruptionInc.]

Gosh I wish someone would let these idiots know it is NORMAL for teenagers wanting to touch and explore. Hormones are rampant and how else are we meant to learn what we like, how we feel towards all genders etc?

If JB and Mullet were allowed to be like this; it is hypocritical that their kids are not. 

[Kira]

This was posted in the Bates thread:

 

Is that Joe?

[choralcrusader8613]

I think it's Joe stirring the pot. Can someone with better eyes than I have tell me who's sitting next to Lawson (on the opposite side from Carlin)?