Jinger's Love Life Part 2

[Gossamer1]

15 minutes ago, JesusCampSongs said:

 

It's also possible that they see Josh's victims as being impure or damaged and therefore not suitable wife material. 

At the time I wondered why only the married victims spoke about the molestations. 

The part of me that wants to believe there is good in the world (even in JB & Michelle ) hoped it was because their parents respected their right to privacy and their desire to not publicly rehash a difficult time in their lives. 

The realist in me believes it'sjust that the Duggar parents don't want to advertise the fact that (by their standards) two of their unmarried daughters are "damaged goods."

In hindsight, Michelle making sure Josie's shoulders were covered at the wedding makes much more (Duggar) sense now. Those harlot victims brought it on themselves by not being modest enough.

[Bad Wolf]

In fundieland, do they always blame the victim? I can't believe that anyone could blame a 5 and 8 year old for defrauding anyone. I know the Duggar minds move in mysterious ways, but do all the cult members act like that? Of course, JB did say it happens in other families too. Poor children. 

 

ETA I joined on Aug 31 this year after lurking for a long time, and I just hit 1000 +. I feel loved and accepted. But I still can't backspace to correct spelling.

[singsingsing]

Normal couples? Seriously? Where am I? These people are fundamentalists. They're all still members of a cult that actively oppresses women and advocates for the abuse of children, that covers up sexual harassment and assault, that aims to take over the United States and create a theocracy. Look, my dearest wish is that all of these couples will run as far away from ATI and fundamentalism in general as they can, that they will one day be normal, healthy couples. But nothing is normal or healthy in that system. 

All I can say is that the Bates family PR is clearly working, because holy shit. I can't believe how much they're fawned over, whereas every time Ben Seewald sneezes or Jill Dillard says the word 'like' the knives come out.

[jqlgoblue]

I think the 'damaged goods' thing is unfortunately true. Regardless of individuals, I'd guess ATIers would view the entire family as tainted (despite Michelle being so godly as to have 19 kids!) 

Additionally, I'd guess that the Gil Bates and Dr. Paines of the world wouldn't want their boys married to Duggar girls b/c JB retains too much control. Imagine the thought of that for ATI board members! They and their sons lose power in that deal so its a no-go.

ETA: Yes, Bates family love is at all time high... but people aren't tired of them yet. Neither they nor Duggars get truthful representation in the press, unfortunately.

[chris]

3 hours ago, JesusCampSongs said:

<snip>

It's also possible that they see Josh's victims as being impure or damaged and therefore not suitable wife material. 

I have the feeling that it was known that Josh molested his sisters and a babysitter, but it wasn't known which ones. And if they couldn't know which were and were not molested, any parents wouldn't let their son's court any of the Duggar girls

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

3 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

In fundieland, do they always blame the victim? I can't believe that anyone could blame a 5 and 8 year old for defrauding anyone. I know the Duggar minds move in mysterious ways, but do all the cult members act like that? Of course, JB did say it happens in other families too. Poor children. 

 

ETA I joined on Aug 31 this year after lurking for a long time, and I just hit 1000 +. I feel loved and accepted. But I still can't backspace to correct spelling.

Yes, it's normal for them to always victim blame. Hell, the wisdom booklet says not to let boys change girls' diapers because it could cause them to have desires they can't righteously fulfill. I also remember reading (I forget where, but I think it was recovering grace) that a 5 year old was publicly punished because she accidentally flashed her underwear when jumping and an adult male had seen it, which turned him on, prompting him to tell her parents. 

[socalrules]

1 minute ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

Yes, it's normal for them to always victim blame. Hell, the wisdom booklet says not to let boys change girls' diapers because it could cause them to have desires they can't righteously fulfill. I also remember reading (I forget where, but I think it was recovering grace) that a 5 year old was publicly punished because she accidentally flashed her underwear when jumping and an adult male had seen it, which turned him on, prompting him to tell her parents. 

And no one was concerned that an adult male admitted that he was turned on by a little girl? Did they think that was normal? I wonder if they realize that most adult men would probably never even give it a thought if a little girl flashed her panties. 

For people that are so modest, fundies are obsessed with sex. Do they believe that fathers will be turned on by changing their daughters diapers? Does everything come back to sex? I wonder if these people actually enjoy sex, even when it can be "righteously" fulfilled. It seems like sex would be a scary, even thing. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, Hiddenomaha said:

I have the feeling that it was known that Josh molested his sisters and a babysitter, but it wasn't known which ones. And if they couldn't know which were and were not molested, any parents wouldn't let their son's court any of the Duggar girls

I'm not sure there WAS a baby sitter, where is this girl now? Wasn't she going to file suit? I'm inclined to believe he went after all 5 of the older girls. But they threw in the baby sitter to throw off the numbers, leaving the idea that at least ONE of the girls was pure still.  I feel very very sorry for Jinger and Joy, because we just know, and I leave it at that.  They are damaged goods in fundie land, I'm guessing Derrick and even Bin didn't know about the molestation until just before it came out. 

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

10 minutes ago, socalrules said:

And no one was concerned that an adult male admitted that he was turned on by a little girl? Did they think that was normal? I wonder if they realize that most adult men would probably never even give it a thought if a little girl flashed her panties. 

For people that are so modest, fundies are obsessed with sex. Do they believe that fathers will be turned on by changing their daughters diapers? Does everything come back to sex? I wonder if these people actually enjoy sex, even when it can be "righteously" fulfilled. It seems like sex would be a scary, even thing. 

Yes, they think it's normal. They're told it's normal. Gothard started his whole religion on the principle that the reason this world is so fucked up is because men are always being distracted by sex and women. He apparently developed this theory when he was 15 and watching all the boys in his class be tortured by lust and the urges it brings. That's why masturbation isn't allowed. It's why all females must be modest at all times. It's why women aren't allowed in the workplace unless they work for their husbands/fathers or another woman. It's why you can't send your children to schools outside the home and, if you must, it needs to be a Gothard approved school. It's why the umbrella of protection exists. It's why courting is done instead of dating. It's why the wisdom booklets on sexual assaults are written to blame the victim and tell the victims that they must ask for forgiveness from God and they must change their ways. If you're curious, those pages where posted somewhere in the Joshgate 1 threads. 

[SilverBeach]

40 minutes ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

the wisdom booklet says not to let boys change girls' diapers because it could cause them to have desires they can't righteously fulfill.

WTFuckery! If a guy can get aroused changing a pissy poopy diaper, he has many issues, only one of which is desiring a BABY!!! I. cant.

[Gossamer1]

1 hour ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

 I also remember reading (I forget where, but I think it was recovering grace) that a 5 year old was publicly punished because she accidentally flashed her underwear when jumping and an adult male had seen it, which turned him on, prompting him to tell her parents. 

What the ever loving fuck?!?!?! So some guy admits he has pedo tendencies and it's the fault of a FIVE YEAL OLD?   I can't even...

[EmCatlyn]

54 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I'm not sure there WAS a baby sitter, where is this girl now? Wasn't she going to file suit? I'm inclined to believe he went after all 5 of the older girls. But they threw in the baby sitter to throw off the numbers, leaving the idea that at least ONE of the girls was pure still.  I feel very very sorry for Jinger and Joy, because we just know, and I leave it at that.  They are damaged goods in fundie land, I'm guessing Derrick and even Bin didn't know about the molestation until just before it came out. 

I think the police report interviewed one Duggar girl who said nothing had happened and one non-Duggar girl who said she didn't want to be interviewed (or something like that).  

[Nikedagain?]

4 hours ago, jqlgoblue said:

ETA: Yes, Bates family love is at all time high... but people aren't tired of them yet. Neither they nor Duggars get truthful representation in the press, unfortunately.

Like they are a novelty. (but ARE they really?? 19 kids, fundies...)  

Clean. ( but are they really? So far so good. Not tainted like their Duggar brethren.  The skeletons are still in the closet. )

People can't seem to get enough of them!

I don't understand. I will never understand. 

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

3 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I think the police report interviewed one Duggar girl who said nothing had happened and one non-Duggar girl who said she didn't want to be interviewed (or something like that).  

The non-family victim was interviewed. She was an adult at the time of the interview, which means she's Josh's age or older. We are not allowed to speculate on her identity. 

[EmCatlyn]

3 minutes ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

The non-family victim was interviewed. She was an adult at the time of the interview, which means she's Josh's age or older. We are not allowed to speculate on her identity. 

Thanks for reminding us.  I had forgotten she was interviewed; I only remembered something about her family's reluctance to have her involved at the time.   And yes, I think we should not speculate about her identity nor should we speculate that more than 4 Duggar girls were involved.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

13 hours ago, Whoosh said:

Your thoughts sound consistent with the idea that the men the Bates parents pick out to marry their daughters are better choices than the Duggar boys/men would make.  I am certainly not saying Gil is less deplorable than JB.  However, from the little I know of these people, I am fairly sure I would prefer to be married to Chad Paine than to a Duggar (partially BECAUSE JB is so controlling).

ETA - just to clarify - I want none of it.  We are talking levels of not wanted in my life in any way here.

ITA. JB & DQ make Gil and Kelly look like loving compensation liberal free wheeling hippies. I don't JB is a fundy father so much as he is a wanna be cult leader, but his lack of charm and brains made it too hard to be able to start his own religion any other way than making his own followers. 

[sophie10130]

6 hours ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

Yes, they think it's normal. They're told it's normal. Gothard started his whole religion on the principle that the reason this world is so fucked up is because men are always being distracted by sex and women. He apparently developed this theory when he was 15 and watching all the boys in his class be tortured by lust and the urges it brings. That's why masturbation isn't allowed. It's why all females must be modest at all times. It's why women aren't allowed in the workplace unless they work for their husbands/fathers or another woman. It's why you can't send your children to schools outside the home and, if you must, it needs to be a Gothard approved school. It's why the umbrella of protection exists. It's why courting is done instead of dating. It's why the wisdom booklets on sexual assaults are written to blame the victim and tell the victims that they must ask for forgiveness from God and they must change their ways. If you're curious, those pages where posted somewhere in the Joshgate 1 threads. 

i just have to wonder if he created this whole religion to legitimize his shortcomings. he "couldn't control" himself, so he created a whole religion saying it wasn't his fault, it was the woman's fault. even if the woman is a baby.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

20 minutes ago, sophie10130 said:

i just have to wonder if he created this whole religion to legitimize his shortcomings. he "couldn't control" himself, so he created a whole religion saying it wasn't his fault, it was the woman's fault. even if the woman is a baby.

Of course he did. Gothard really doesn't give a rats ass about anyone else, he only cares about himself. But, a belief that it's the woman's fault doesn't hold much credibility unless you get a bunch of mindless followers. Plus, he is an abuser with a need for power, so starting a cult is the "perfect" profession for him. 

[Rubaiyat]

On December 27, 2015 at 4:46 PM, missegeno said:

I havent spent much time down the Bates rabbit hole, but it has seemed to me that the Bates spouses at least understand the need to find money (god hides it behind work!) and work independently. Meanwhile, Ben and Anna both came in with an expectation that they would live off of the family they were marrying into. Derick seemed to be different, but quickly gave up his real work for the same associative bullshit.

Aaaand...now there's tea up my nose!  

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Nikedagain? said:

Like they are a novelty. (but ARE they really?? 19 kids, fundies...)  

Clean. ( but are they really? So far so good. Not tainted like their Duggar brethren.  The skeletons are still in the closet. )

People can't seem to get enough of them!

I don't understand. I will never understand. 

I don't get it either.  The Bates skeletons have started to come out of the closet in the form of a lawsuit showing how Gil Bates covered up a ton of abuse (and blamed the victims).  Similar to how JB handled the molestations (if not worse), yet the Bates love continues.  And how is Gil Bates sending his daughters on a trip with Gothard any different from JB allowing Josh to stay in the house after he started molesting his sisters?

[Toothfairy]

15 hours ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

Yes, it's normal for them to always victim blame. Hell, the wisdom booklet says not to let boys change girls' diapers because it could cause them to have desires they can't righteously fulfill. I also remember reading (I forget where, but I think it was recovering grace) that a 5 year old was publicly punished because she accidentally flashed her underwear when jumping and an adult male had seen it, which turned him on, prompting him to tell her parents. 

I'm thinking gothard probably abused boys too

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

On December 24, 2015 at 3:20 PM, Toothfairy said:

The only courtship that will save the show is Jana.

As I mostly skimmed the last special (I wanted to see if Spurgeon was really his name, or if they had been fooling us this whole time), I realized that what I stop to watch isn't their story lines -- it's the moments when the family seems the most "real," the least scripted, and just like they're having genuine moments. If the Duggars and TLC want to save the show, they need to drop the "freak show" aspect and really embrace "here's this family with 19 kids who are real people living in an extraordinary situation" angle. They need to focus on individuals and their individual experiences. 

I don't want to see how they function as a family unit doing x, y, or z. I don't want to watch them go through a script like mindless drone. What I want to see is just them doing them. I want to see them being as genuine as possible while also being filmed. 

[lascuba]

9 minutes ago, DuggarsTheEndIsNear said:

As I mostly skimmed the last special (I wanted to see if Spurgeon was really his name, or if they had been fooling us this whole time), I realized that what I stop to watch isn't their story lines -- it's the moments when the family seems the most "real," the least scripted, and just like they're having genuine moments. If the Duggars and TLC want to save the show, they need to drop the "freak show" aspect and really embrace "here's this family with 19 kids who are real people living in an extraordinary situation" angle. They need to focus on individuals and their individual experiences. 

I don't want to see how they function as a family unit doing x, y, or z. I don't want to watch them go through a script like mindless drone. What I want to see is just them doing them. I want to see them being as genuine as possible while also being filmed. 

Exactly this. Unfortunately, judging by the "final" special, that's not going to happen. They really went back to form last night, with the obvious staging, the teasing about having more kids...everything. And there's no reason for TLC mess with the formula that gave them their highest ratings.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

47 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Exactly this. Unfortunately, judging by the "final" special, that's not going to happen. They really went back to form last night, with the obvious staging, the teasing about having more kids...everything. And there's no reason for TLC mess with the formula that gave them their highest ratings.

I think that, if they want to continue with the spin off, they're going to have to mess with the formula. The fact is that there's nothing particularly interesting about newlyweds only raising one or two children. Anna's probably the "most interesting" when it comes to her children because she has 4 of them and Josh is currently out of the picture, but I don't think we're going to see her teasing with "trying for more" for a while. 

Also, their ratings have been slipping for years. The biggest peak in the ratings was Jill's wedding, which brought in 4.4 million viewers. But, they've been below 2 million viewers for years. In fact, going back as long as there are records of the ratings on Wikipedia (so mid-season 5), they hadn't gotten even close to 2 million viewers until Jessa's courtship announcement. In fact, the episodes hovered just below to just above 1 million that entire stretch of time. 

Jon and Kate's 4th season finale (before Jon's cheating was discovered) brought in 4.6 million viewers and their season 5 premiere (after the cheating was discovered) brought in 9.8 million. By contrast, Jill and Jessa's first special brought in only 2.2 million, which is the same amount of regular viewers Honey Boo Boo attracted (that show's second season high was 3.21 million viewers), and their second special brought in 1.89 million, which is only just above Amy's "leaving for Nashville" (1.71 million). 

TLC has held onto the Duggars for reasons I can't understand. But, if they want viewers to actually watch the show, they have to change the show. 

[Kira]

14 hours ago, AbandonAllHope said:

I don't get it either.  The Bates skeletons have started to come out of the closet in the form of a lawsuit showing how Gil Bates covered up a ton of abuse (and blamed the victims).  Similar to how JB handled the molestations (if not worse), yet the Bates love continues.  And how is Gil Bates sending his daughters on a trip with Gothard any different from JB allowing Josh to stay in the house after he started molesting his sisters?

The Bates get love because they're connected to the Duggars. We hate the Duggars. Everything  the Duggars do is bad, even things we make up! We hate them when they do normal things. We hate them when they break the "rules". The posters that hated Jill and Jessa's maternity clothes because they weren't modest loved Alyssa's fashion. Since the Duggars are bad the Bates are good.  I don't think anyone would love the Bates if they were a random fundie family. We can find everything we like about the Bates in other fundie families. Those families dont get any love.  I've never seen anything like the Bates love.

Most posters have fundies they "like", but the Bates love is ridiculous. If you want the Bates thread to come to a halt mention the lawsuit against Gil.  I wonder how FJ will react if the Bates scandal gets worse(I can't believe I'm saying that.). 

Here's the Bates thread this week:

" The Bates are winning.......something."

"Kelly doesn't have twins, so she won the race to have babies you can't provide for. Yay!!!!!!!

"You know what makes the Bates better than the Duggars? They follow cult leader Gothard and the follow their patriarch JB"