woman dies during exorcism

[laPapessaGiovanna]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3340227/Woman-22-dies-exorcism-performed-local-church-family-said-possessed-using-Ouija-board.html

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/11/30/woman-reportedly-played-the-ouija-board-before-mysteriously-falling-ill-its-what-happened-after-a-purported-exorcism-that-has-police-investigating/

Young woman, named Jaqueline Sanchez,  dies for cardio respiratory arrest during an exorcism performed on her in Belize.  She was reportedly suffering from seizures and hysteria during the last month after playing with an Ouija board. Her family thought she was demon possessed and required an exorcism. 

[AmazonGrace]

Are the demons gone now?

 

I don't understand why demons make people have seizures, wouldn't it be far more demonic if the possessed person acted natural and did something horrible?

[laPapessaGiovanna]

 If I believed in demons I'd wish her relatives that the demons that were in her start persecuting them. Unfortunately I don't believe and so I hope that police will investigate and law will make some justice for the poor girl.

I think the link between demons and seizures can be found in ignorance and fear of the unknown. Otherwise it would be pretty clear that there's no connection. 

[Pseudoname]

 If I believed in demons I'd wish

I think the link between demons and seizures can be found in ignorance and fear of the unknown. Otherwise it would be pretty clear that there's no connection. 

I think JK Rowling showed us that with the Imperius cruse.  A truly evil being taking over and controlling a peron's actions, while maintaining a somewhat normal outward personna.

I understand why people back in history could think seizures were the work of the devil.  The person just suddenly falls to the ground writhing, and when seizure is over, they sleep and usually have no memory of it.

However, in today's world, with all our medical knowledge etc, I just cannot fathom why the Catholic Church still clings to medieval thinking and tradition in allowing priests to perform exorcisms.

sorry, wrong quote, and I can't figure out how to get rid of this box.

 

I don't understand why demons make people have seizures, wouldn't it be far more demonic if the possessed person acted natural and did something horrible?

[sawasdee]

 

However, in today's world, with all our medical knowledge etc, I just cannot fathom why the Catholic Church still clings to medieval thinking and tradition in allowing priests to perform exorcisms.

In this instance, it was a Pentecostal Church. The Catholic Church is, on the whole, very unwilling to hold an exorcism, and it is mandatory that such patients are referred to psychiatric hospitals. A very small percentage, after a great deal of investigation, are handed over to specialist priests, who operate only with special permission from their Bishop.

ETA The majority of exorcisms today are not carried out by the Catholic Church, but rather by Pentecostals.Surprisingly, both Methodists and Anglicans have exorcism rites that closely follow Catholicism, in that psychiatric care is emphasised; in the Anglican Church, ministers who are allowed to perform exorcisms are usually trained psychiatrists, and operate only at the behest of a Bishop.

[Pseudoname]

@sawasdee. Yeah, just realised that it was a pentacostal, not Catholic, exorcism.  Sincere thanks for pointing out the discrepancy.  I missed that when I read the article, and my mind jumped to a conclusion that was misinformed and prejudicial.  

And I did not realise that exorcisms and psychiatry were closely linked.  But I can understand that a deeply religious, superstitious, and vulnerable mentally ill person and his/her family might seek to have an exorcism.  And I can understand that a psychiatrist might see this as a part of treatment plan to help ease the minds of everyone involved.  (Though personally, any psychiatrists I've met would totally disapprove of legitimising delusional thinking).

[sawasdee]

@sawasdee. Yeah, just realised that it was a pentacostal, not Catholic, exorcism.  Sincere thanks for pointing out the discrepancy.  I missed that when I read the article, and my mind jumped to a conclusion that was misinformed and prejudicial.  

And I did not realise that exorcisms and psychiatry were closely linked.  But I can understand that a deeply religious, superstitious, and vulnerable mentally ill person and his/her family might seek to have an exorcism.  And I can understand that a psychiatrist might see this as a part of treatment plan to help ease the minds of everyone involved.  (Though personally, any psychiatrists I've met would totally disapprove of legitimising delusional thinking).

The psychiatrists are usually trying to convince both patient and family that demons are not involved, only mental illness. If the patient is completely resistant to the idea of mental illness, then exorcism can sometimes be an entry for treatment. I do not think that there are many clerics today who wholly subscribe to the idea of possession.

[Pseudoname]

The psychiatrists are usually trying to convince both patient and family that demons are not involved, only mental illness. If the patient is completely resistant to the idea of mental illness, then exorcism can sometimes be an entry for treatment. I do not think that there are many clerics today who wholly subscribe to the idea of possession.

That is what I was thinking you meant.  When I spoke about the psychiatrists I know would not do it, Australia is a very atheistic country, and all my psychiatrists have been fully immersed in the full on medical model.  

But upon doing a tiny bit of research into it, it appears that exorcism is alive and well here, and even possibly increasing, amongst several different religions.  Non-believers also seeking out exorcisms.  As you say, Catholic priests (haven't found info regarding other faiths yet) having been trained in psychology, and definitely refer people on to other medically appropriate services.

Anyway, thanks so much to opening my eyes to this.  I'm going to do much further reading as it is actually quite interesting, and nothing like Hollywood, books, and scaremongering newspaper articles portray.

[DaffyDill]

That is what I was thinking you meant.  When I spoke about the psychiatrists I know would not do it, Australia is a very atheistic country, and all my psychiatrists have been fully immersed in the full on medical model.  

Hello fellow Aussie!  

We are indeed a very atheistic country, and very much less inclined to religious assistance. Speaking as an epileptic though, it's not that long in the past a stigma was still attached to the condition. Not so much the "possessed by demons" thinking of many, many years ago, but more a fear based ignorance leading people to believe that epilepsy goes hand in hand with being intellectually disabled.

[Catey]

I think of it and 2 types of exorcists come to mind, the Televangelist who has people come forward with all types of maladies and then he lays hands on them and demands that the evil leave their body, the poof, presto chango all healed. His purpose?? Cash.

The blind can see, the depressed are filled with joy and the lame can walk, I don't think that these sociopaths actually believe their own hype, I think they are just modern day snake oil salesman wrapped in the protective cloth of religion..

 

Then comes the other type, the save your soul from an actual physical manifestation of a demon taking over your body. While a handful of these might actually believe their actions are needed I think that the vast number of these are actually Psychopaths and sexual sadists as well. If you read any of the documented cases of so called exorcisms that were performed where the people ended up dead the things that were done to them leading up to their death are nothing short of sadistic, with a healthy dose of sexual abuse thrown in ( women kept naked, writing on their bodies I could go on but if you want to know look it up) No sain person bearing  a conscience could listen to the screams and pleas for extended periods of time and not react.

[Arete]

For an exocism to be performed in the Greek Orthodox Church, you need the literal sign off of the territorial archbishop .   Which is why an official exocism hasn't been performed in years.  People seeking exocism for themselves or friends/relatives are usually refered to a psychiatrist and/or the local SECULAR mental health resources.  

We do seem to be developing a problem with charlatan monks or charlatans trying to pass themselves as monks trying to reactivate the  business, and I do mean "business".  I wish the official church spent more time warning congregants about these roaches.

[AmazonGrace]

When exorcisms are a good show:

 

http://www.teenageexorcists.com/