Independent Baptists vs Pentecostals? Fundie?

[SilverBeach]

I don't think that's true. Pentecostalism is descended from Methodism (yes really!), with the Holiness Movement as a kind of missing-link - all about that inner holiness and a godly spirit. I also have a lot of pentecostal friends. The substance is definitely important.

 

Also I guess it depends on the area but there are definitely mainstream AOG and SDA churches although I will admit that they are on the outer reaches of mainstream.

My ex was Pentecostal. His church did not descend from any Methodist tradition. Outer holiness was very important. I did not say substance was unimportant, but was less important. Perhaps we define substance differently. I find your post interesting, although I do not see the relevance of the mainstream comment to what I posted. There are many Pentecostal denominations. I stand by my original post.

[Ennui]

 

 

Also I guess it depends on the area but there are definitely mainstream AOG and SDA churches although I will admit that they are on the outer reaches of mainstream.

There are definitely sda churches that are more mainstream, however I didn't realize this until I was in college. What I meant in my post is that it is kind of funny to me when people go, "really? You consider x group mainstream? That's not my experience!" because I did it myself for quite a long time with the religion I was raised in. I often have to remind myself that they're not all alike. It kind of made me smile that someone else does that too regarding a different group, that I'm not the only one.

[blessalessi]

Do I have to give back my FJ card if I admit that I actually really like some     of their clothes?

Fortunately for all of us, their pricing is a bit too high for my taste (I go for the cheap stuff!) So no worries - there will not be a Dainty Jewell wearing Velociraptor roaming the forums anytime soon.

You will have to post pics of the dresses you like, so we can judge you, Maxwell-style.

Personally, I think nothing says "modest" better than a small child in a "Lovely Madam" dress.

 

 

 

 Dainty Jewell's ... not only a modest clothing company but a ministry for women all across the world who desire to present themselves as intentional ladies.

[GodsKnickers]

Conservative Pentecostals talk about The Devil a lot. Like, a lot, a lot. Everything not-awesome that happens is because of The Devil. I grew up IFB and never gave The Devil very much thought. I internalized the idea that my sin nature was enough to make me sin and the bad things in life happen because of the collective sin of humanity. The Pentecostals I've known believe The Devil is lurking around every corner, trying to trip you up and make your life suck as much as possible. If you're having a bad day, it's necessary to "rebuke" The Devil to make him leave you alone. This was totally foreign to my IFB self.  

This is very spot on, with my upbringing. My dad was a Pent minister. Pents in Canada tend toward the more charismatic than the Holiness sort. I find Pents up here to be a real mish-mash of the different theologies within the Pents - my family certainly was. It got pretty confusing at times.
 

And sweet mother of budgerigars, what is up with the hair on that Dainty Jewells site? Looking at the wedding picture with the grey tiered dresses and teal/coral infant headbands that everyone is wearing.

[GodsKnickers]

Oh my goodness, look at that heathen sinner in the one picture, with the short styled hair, pierced ears and makeup. Hussy.

[Gimme a Free RV]

Thought about my fellow FJers today while traveling through an area of Appalachia on holiday.  No joke, within a one mile stretch, I passed a Missionary Baptist Church, a Landmark Baptist Church, and a Freewill Baptist Church.  There were also IFB and SBC churches in the area.  Kinda of like a Baskin Robbins for Baptists....well, not John Shrader, who is the RIGHT kind d of Baptist.

[ariel9]

I grew up Pentecostal and you're right about the devil getting a lot of credit. Wearing red was frowned up because of him.

[Cleopatra7]

You will have to post pics of the dresses you like, so we can judge you, Maxwell-style.

Personally, I think nothing says "modest" better than a small child in a "Lovely Madam" dress.

 

 

 

 Dainty Jewell's ... not only a modest clothing company but a ministry for women all across the world who desire to present themselves as intentional ladies.

I think "presenting as an intentional lady" needs to be a post title. Since I wear sweatpants and khaki all the time, I'm clearly failing as an "intentional lady."

[Chach1984i]

I think "presenting as an intentional lady" needs to be a post title. Since I wear sweatpants and khaki all the time, I'm clearly failing as an "intentional lady."

Yoga pants ftw! Every time I wear a skirt (which is literally never - I own one) I'm going to tell everyone I'm intentionally a lady... best description ever.

 

On the pentecostal discussion, where does the Potters House Christian Fellowship fall on the fundie scale? My mom became very active in that church before she passed away. They don't/ didn't appear typically fundie, the women wear pants and work and what not. I went a couple times with my mom when she was too sick to go alone and after casually mentioning that to a friend she told me that they are considered a cult. I have no clue though my mom never fell far enough into it.

[Iamhispurity]

I love my skirts and sometimes tend to look pretty fundie. Though on other times fundies would probably tell me that I´m defrauding them with my ebil cleavage.

I find this obsession about modesty both strangely fascinating and deeply disturbing. And really harmful for the women that are told that their bodies are a problem.

[FoxyMoxie]

My ex was Pentecostal. His church did not descend from any Methodist tradition. Outer holiness was very important. I did not say substance was unimportant, but was less important. Perhaps we define substance differently. I find your post interesting, although I do not see the relevance of the mainstream comment to what I posted. There are many Pentecostal denominations. I stand by my original post.

Actually Pentecostalism as a whole is descended from Methodism, whether your ex's individual church acknowledged it or not - Pentecostal churches being ignorant of Pentecostalism's origins doesn't change that, although recently some Methodist churches have been addressing this. My comment on the mainstream was in reply to an earlier comment made by someone else about the mainstreamness or not of SDA and AOG churches.

[SilverBeach]

 

My ex's church was part of a large denomination, Pentecostal Assemblies of the World. They were proud of their history and recited it often. No ignorance there.

From Wikipedia:

"Within this radical evangelicalism, expressed most strongly in the Wesleyan—holiness and Higher Life movements, themes of restorationism, premillennialism, faith healing, and greater attention on the person and work of the Holy Spirit were central to emerging Pentecostalism.^[111]" 

The Wesleyan (Methodist) tradition was undergoing radial evangelicalism at the same time Pentecostalism was emerging. However, Pentecostalism did not descend from the Methodists, that is overstating things. Do you have references supporting your assertion?

 

 

Replying to foxie moxie, quote got messed up, sorry.

[est11]

Jumping in (long time lurker, first time poster) because this is a topic near and dear to my father's (and my) heart for everal reasons. There could be many sources cited, but for the sake of time, if you click on the "Wesleyan-holiness" link in the Wikipedia quote you posted, you'll see this:

The Holiness movement refers to a set of beliefs and practices which emerged from 19th-century Methodism...

So, Pentecostals as a whole descended from Wesleyan-Holiness people, and they descended from Methodists.  That's most likely to what FoxyMoxie was referring. 

 

Replying to foxie moxie, quote got messed up, sorry.

and I don't know what I'm doing (lol!), so I think I messed up my reply to you, SilverBeach. See above.

[formergothardite]

Some of the IFB I knew claimed to be able to trace the baptist church back to Jesus, which is why IFB were the only "real" churches. The evidence was a bit dubious, though. 

[lizzybee]

My ex-stepmother went to a fundie pentecostal church (she did the outward holiness thing as a kid but not as an adult so we got a lot of "you heathen" stares when she made us go), and they were an interesting bunch. I'm still recovering from the Easter service we attended where a gentleman dressed up as Jesus and strapped himself to a cross and drug it down the aisle accompanied by his torturers. Children were screaming, chaos ensued. I was probably under the age of ten - I'm still screaming on the inside. 

[Iamhispurity]

Some of the IFB I knew claimed to be able to trace the baptist church back to Jesus, which is why IFB were the only "real" churches. The evidence was a bit dubious, though. 

Not really. There were mostly adult baptisms in the early church, simply because they were converts. But that changed drastically in the 2./3. century AD. And child baptisms exited before too. So saying that they date back to the early church is pretty problematic. The Roman Catholics can, but so can the Orthodox

[SilverBeach]

Jumping in (long time lurker, first time poster) because this is a topic near and dear to my father's (and my) heart for everal reasons. There could be many sources cited, but for the sake of time, if you click on the "Wesleyan-holiness" link in the Wikipedia quote you posted, you'll see this:

The Holiness movement refers to a set of beliefs and practices which emerged from 19th-century Methodism...

So, Pentecostals as a whole descended from Wesleyan-Holiness people, and they descended from Methodists.  That's most likely to what FoxyMoxie was referring. 

and I don't know what I'm doing (lol!), so I think I messed up my reply to you, SilverBeach. See above.

The Holiness movement does not equate 100% with the Pentecostal movement. There was overlap during that time of spiritual movements. My exes denomination is mostly Black, different lineage. In any case, I appreciate your input, interesting.

[TXGirlInAMaterialWorld]

I grew up IFB- but not in an extremely fundie one.  I have family on the West Coast who are serious Pentecostals.  They take their modesty for women much more seriously as far as no makeup, never cutting or dyeing your hair, no jewelry, etc.  They do wear some serious high heels though! 

My impression was that they do a lot more proselytizing than IFB- I could be at the grocery store or a gas station with my Pentecostal cousins and next thing I knew they were praying with someone.  They also seemed a lot more focused on serving their fellow church members and community.  

[nolongerIFBx]

Some of the IFB I knew claimed to be able to trace the baptist church back to Jesus, which is why IFB were the only "real" churches. The evidence was a bit dubious, though. 

Very! It's a great thought, but they are REALLY stretching to try to make it true, willing to align themselves with groups that held beliefs that they would never have anything to do with today in order to try to make this true. This chart claims that those groups were just "nicknames" that Baptists went by.

[FundieFarmer]

That's very cool- I didn't know that was a claim. Thanks for the graphic and the info, @formergothardite & @nolongerIFBx.

[mango_fandango]

Man, that Dainty Jewells site. The clothing for girls... oh my. Is this some kind of smart-casual thing? Cos those girls' outfits are definitely NOT every-day wear. Some of the clothing in the women's section is more day-to-day style. And the bridesmaids dresses... much lace. So layers. Wow.

[FoxyMoxie]

SilverBeach - est11 is correct, I was referring to Pentecostalism descending from the Holiness Movement which was an offshoot of Methodism. Most Pentecostals in the UK are black and of Caribbean origin so I wonder if your ex's church is from that group of Pentecostalism.

[BiblebeltCath]

 

Kim Davis, the Kentucky clerk who denied the marruage license, is a fundie Pentecostal. Google Pentecostal hair for a fun time.

It is a fun time! See my avatar for an example, haha!

The city around my college had a large population of Pentecostal women but they always looked very plain. Long hair, clipped back with barrettes, no makeup, only a watch and wedding ring for jewelry. So a couple of years ago, when I saw a mom and a toddler wearing matching bouffants and updos at the grocery store, I had to google to figure out what kind of fundie they were.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

On 11/23/2015 at 9:36 PM, RosyDaisy said:

The Pentecostals I know allow women to work, are not quiverfull, use birth control, but are anti-choice. They don't wear makeup, jewelry (even wedding rings), are skirts/dresses only with long hair. Most do not watch tv, listen to secular music, dance, or drink alcohol. I don't think they do the courtship thing, but sex before marriage is taboo. They also send their kids to public schools and colleges. Unlike IFB, Pentecostals do interact with the public. Their kids also aren't sheltered from the outside world. I would definitely say they are fundie though. YMMV from congregation to congregation.

So of all the "worldly" things women are allowed to do only work made the cut?

How super fun.  /sarcasm

I guess I won't be stopping by to convert today.  If you can find a religion that allows me to do everything I want, but forbids me to work can you PM me?

[FundieFarmer]

While you're at it, message David Rodrigues. He'd probably like to know too.