Real Life Fundie Encounters - Part 3

[MarblesMom]

@Swamptribe it was the Jay Dubs.  They left a tract in the door.

[Percy]

20 hours ago, DaniLouisiana said:

This is a sort of a yearly(not this year, I hope!) fundi encounter-every year at Christmas my in-laws invite a mother and son from their church to dinner. The son Demanded that we change the channel when commercial for a Harry Potter movie came on. When he came into the kitchen to make his demand he ran straight into a dicussion of paganism between myself, my SIL and my trans son (who he had met before he came out as trans). They couldn't leave the house fast enough. Cut to a couple of days later at the grocery store- my same son ran into these people, was as polite as he could be, asked if they needed any help...they again ran away. Rude. And these people call themselves 'Christian'.

I am not too sure what I believe any more, but,  I just can't believe that God is intolerant.  

People should just accept that we are not all wired the same.  Let people be who they need to be and love who they love.  ( Illegal activities excepted).

Why should one group push their beliefs on to anothers.  

A lot of Religions do good but there are some who seem to feel that their way is the only way.  

I am not expressing myself well.  Christ worked with the poor, the lepors , the prostitutes and did not say look at me and how good I am, he just got on with it.

There are religious groups and others who do good where needed and don't shout about it.

 Those who preach loudly and say 'look at as and how godly and Christian we are' seem to be the intolerant ones.  They help so people can see they are good Christians, and they only help those who the Christians deem as worthy.

ramblings over.

[grandmadugger]

I'm not even a full degree of separation from fundamental "Christians" but this weekend I lost my mind on one.  Many of my religious convictions align with theirs. I believe life begins at conception but I don't think my view should take away the right of someone else. I believe homosexuality is a sin but who am I to judge I just finished a smoke and a bourbon.  I get so pissed when they act like they don't sin. It's like they missed the whole point of Easter.  So while I was arguing about the fact trans people should be able to use the restroom that they identified with and she told me that they shouldn't because it was a sin I reminded her about a recent shopping spree that she hid from her husband and lying was a sin  I haven't heard back from her.  

[Pukingpearl]

So while I consider myself a Stay At Home Feminist, I have a lot in common with many fundie women. I have two toddlers and I have a husband who financially supports us. We also recently just moved to a really small town far from anyone we know. To have some Contact with other people, I joined a group for young moms through a church. I've been in a similar group before, and it was mildly religious but focused mostly on fellowship. 

I say all this to say that two of the mentor moms for the group have six children, all homeschooled...my fundie radar went off. But then I literally spit my tea out when one of them recommended Debi Pearls "Created to Be His Helpmeet." 

 

 

 

 

[TeamDefraudinSquad]

I used to be a housewares department manager at a Walmart in Northern Colorado. About three years ago, when I still worked there, a teenaged girl who was about 14 years old came in one day, alone, dressed in a FLDS-styled purple pastel dress (if she had someone shopping with her, I never saw them.) She also had her hair in one of those poofy updos they do, but hers was way less poofy than the ones you saw during the yearning for zion raid in '08; it almost looked like a Victorian updo. She approached me and asked if I could tell her where the flour sack towels were. I had to contain my fascination with this girl the entire time I was helping her, because I thought it would be in poor taste to ask her what # wife her mom is, how many siblings she has, if she really believed Warren Jeffs is a prophet, if she was married, and all the other questions I had. I wanted to ask so many things, but in the end, I just walked her to the flour sack towels and went on my way. I sometimes wonder what she must have thought of my chest piercing, if she saw it (I was wearing a very Nike! top that day... so its possible! )

[Kariina]

I was homeschooled through Grade 9 by atheist parents. It was really hard to find fellow secular homeschoolers in the 90s -- we laid low in a few fundie co-ops for a while. One family had seven boys (at the time we were in the group) all with J-names.

I think my fascination with fundies and my subsequent long lurk and finally joining FJ has to do with so much of my past intersecting with fundie culture, yet getting away entirely unscathed because my parents weren't religious (they homeschooled us for academic / personal development / kinda attachment parenting reasons). I had lots of Mormon and fundie friends as a kid, and only as I grew up learned how nutty some of their beliefs were/are.

I have some funny memories. One time I was playing at my fundie friend's house. They had a whiteboard. I drew a unicorn on it (because I was a seven year old girl and loved ponies and unicorns). My friend said, gravely, "Oh, our mom doesn't let us play unicorns because they refused to get on the ark." After she turned around I realized I had accidentally used a Sharpie...

[hollywood]

I live near Pensacola which has Pensacola Christian College there. So I drove the 30 minutes out to the mall in Pensacola and went to the J.C Penney today for Black Friday shopping and there they were. Fundies from PCC everywhere. Mainly it was girls, but they had their hair in an updo, one had the crunchy perm, and all in ankle jean skirts all grouped together. I forgot where I was for a moment and remembered I was next to PCC. 

[19BabyGerkins]

On 11/28/2015 at 0:04 PM, danvillebelle said:

Amish and many conservative Mennonites don't wear wedding rings, because of the verse in 1 Timothy about not wearing pearls or gold.  I have also met other Christians of various stripes who take the verse in 1 Timothy literally and just don't wear any jewelry at all.

 

Yes Seventh Day Adventists do not wear jewlery of any form.  

[CreationMuseumCurator]

A friend sent this to me about a month ago. She ends up near Leavenworth a lot for work, so I had to hop on and make sure the Maxwells don't drive a Suburban. They don't.

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by CreationMuseumCurator
Accidentally double posted the picture

[Trynn]

Yes Seventh Day Adventists do not wear jewlery of any form.  

Well, they do wear expensive watches.... They say they don't wear jewelry for modesty reasons but some of them will wear expensive name brand items. It's not always consistent.

[PennySycamore]

@Kariina,  your post about the whiteboard and the drawing of a unicorn made me laugh out loud!  It's amazing that somebody thought the old Irish Rovers song about how the unicorns missed the ark was Scripture.  There must have been something in fundie circles in the 80s/90s about unicorn though, because the dad of some friends of my daughters made them cut the horns off their unicorns.

 

[Kariina]

28 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

@Kariina,  your post about the whiteboard and the drawing of a unicorn made me laugh out loud!  It's amazing that somebody thought the old Irish Rovers song about how the unicorns missed the ark was Scripture.  There must have been something in fundie circles in the 80s/90s about unicorn though, because the dad of some friends of my daughters made them cut the horns off their unicorns.

 

Oh my gosh I'd never heard of any piece of the Bible or pop culture making reference to that! that's so funny! oddly enough in my little brain I just thought, oh, I guess that's how they explain why dragons and unicorns don't exist! I felt a little twinge inside though because thinking of unicorns as being in defiance of anyone's God was such as sad thought...I was such as devotee of The Last Unicorn movie and My Little Ponies.

Harry Potter came on the scene shortly after; you can imagine how that went over in our little homeschool circles!

[clueliss]

So Saturday I went to see mom on the 2.5 hour one way car trip. 

A semi with have you prayed? And a scripture on the back of the trailer blew past me. Because nothing says I live Jesus like speeding. 

There was also the pickup truck with the license plate that said PHILA413.  I know that reference.  I know the verse.   "I  can do all things through christ"  uhuh, apparently speeding also qualifies as all things. 

Both of the appalsbove reminds me of appalsbove friend who won't put one of those fish symbols on her car because she doesn't want people judging Christians by her driving. 

[JMO]

@PennySycamore did the Irish Rovers write that song ?  The version I always heard growing up in the 80's was sung by an American folk singer on an easy listening station my parents listened to. 

ETA: I just looked it up. The song is based on a Shel Silverstein poem .  Originally sung by the Irish Rovers but immediately covered by multiple other artists and groups. 

Edited December 4, 2016 by JMO

[Kariina]

2 hours ago, JMO said:

@PennySycamore did the Irish Rovers write that song ?  The version I always heard growing up in the 80's was sung by an American folk singer on an easy listening station my parents listened to. 

ETA: I just looked it up. The song is based on a Shel Silverstein poem .  Originally sung by the Irish Rovers but immediately covered by multiple other artists and groups. 

Oh my gosh!!!!! I totally lied -- I know exactly what Silverstein poem you're talking about. 

[nastyhobbitses]

I was waiting for a train when a lady in a calf-length skirt and armful of pamphlets approached me. Jehovah's Witness. She was very polite, but I got very nervous because I'm socially awkward and have no idea how to handle proselytizing, so I just sort of blurted out "No thanks, I'm Jewish and I plan to stay that way". She said thank you for your time and walked off to the next commuter. I always wonder how many converts they get through this method.

[PraiseDog]

On 12/3/2016 at 8:39 PM, PennySycamore said:

@Kariina,  your post about the whiteboard and the drawing of a unicorn made me laugh out loud!  It's amazing that somebody thought the old Irish Rovers song about how the unicorns missed the ark was Scripture.  There must have been something in fundie circles in the 80s/90s about unicorn though, because the dad of some friends of my daughters made them cut the horns off their unicorns.

 

OMG, I'd forgotten all about that song!  I remember having it on a 45rpm when I was 5 or 6, playing it on the little mono record player my sister and I shared and the two of us dancing around...I remember being sad at the part where the unicorns cried, though neither of us ever believed the song was based in fact....
cute memories, LOL!  

[PraiseDog]

I'm not sure if this is an actual fundy encounter, but I just bumped into a very odd-seeming new religious group in my small town, and I'd like to hear you folks' opinions about it.

The other day on my way to work, I noticed that a small office building which had been sitting vacant for several years has now been renovated, and two of the new signs installed out front (among a couple lawyers and accountants) are:  "Torah for all Nations" and "El Shaddai Ministries." My first thought was, "that's awesome, maybe there are more Jewish people living here in my small town than I realized," since I've never met any local Jewish people in my 14 years of living here, although we have a wide variety of churches of all flavors here (one on every corner, almost) we don't have a synagogue.

Then I started to wonder, because "ministries" seems like odd word to use in the context of Judaism, so when I got home I did some googling.  The "Torah for all Nations" has a website, but there's nothing on it - looks like it's just in the first stage of being built.  The "El Shaddai Ministries" website, on the other hand, has all kinds of interesting but conflicting things on it.

First of all, the "leader" calls himself  "Pastor Mark Something-or-other," not Rabbi.  He studied at some Christian college, and doesn't mention Hebrew school, Yeshiva, or even any actual Divinity degree or ordination (unless it's hidden somewhere, I admit I just skimmed.)   There are a few pictures and videos of services, and not only is there no Hebrew spoken and none of the men wearing yarmulkes, this guy's preaching style seems really fundy-esque. Here's a link to the website: http://elshaddaiministries.us/index.php 

Questions for those of you who know more about these things than I do:

Is this one of those "Messianic Judaism" groups?  One interesting statement on the site says, "we don't want to convert Christians to Judaism, or Jews to Christianity." But the impression I get here is that there aren't many (if any) culturally Jewish members, it's mostly a bunch of Fundies who like ancient rituals, love challah, lox and bagels, and want to play with menorahs and mezuzah. There are also some discussions about beliefs and interpretation of different scriptures from the Bible and Torah, which seem very esoteric to me, having just a basic knowledge of Judaism from reading, introductory coursework in comparative religions, and being invitied to a few Seders by Jewish friends.  And my knowledge of the fine points of Christian theology is just as basic, having ended my Christian education at my forced confirmation (after taking the requisite classes) and no longer being required to go to church or even think much about it after that.

Anyway, this group (or cult, possibly) has their Open House next Saturday.  It includes a ceremony to put Mezuzahs on the doors, as well as a potluck - they insist on no dishes of pork or shellfish, but they say nothing about whether the hot dogs or any other dishes should be Kosher.   Should I go to their Open House, or would it be just a big waste of my time?
Reasons to maybe go would be:  I'm curious about what's going on in my own small-town community.  Who are these people, what do they believe in and why? How much influence might they have or gain in my community?  Are they just Fundies wearing yet another fake mask? Might learning about them be interesting?  If all else fails, might learning about them be snarkworthy?  Should we throw our support to this little splinter group of Fundies who support Jewish traditions, since so many others are anti-Semitic? I don't know...if I do go, I'll need to prepare a questionnaire of their opinions while making it seem like just conversation. I'm not a professional journalist, but information is always worthwhile.
Reasons to skip it:  It's possible they are just fakers - a boring lot of Christians who are so uneducated,  they're searching for some historical tradition no matter how fake...

[PennySycamore]

@PraiseDog, they are probably fake Jews.  I'd be inclined to steer clear of them.  If you do go to the Open House, you might want to look into the Jews for Judaism youtube channel.  They also have a website:

Jews for Judaism

 that has lots of informative articles about why "messianic Judaism" isn't Jewish in the least and how to counter Christian outreach to Jews.

Two things from looking around the website:  They are really, really into "End-Times" crapola wherein some people feel that some Jews must be converted to Christianity for Jesus to return or for armageddon to happen.  (The rest of the Jews will be killed in a bloodbath.)  And they cite WND or World Net Daily or, as it is commonly known among sane people,  World Nut Daily.  WND is just bonkers.

 

[EmainMacha]

@PraiseDog that's really interesting. When I lived in North London there was a really big building with El Shaddai Ministries on it, just outside Golders Green tube station. Golders Green is considered quite a Jewish area.

I always meant to look them up. For some reason at the time I thought it was an evangelical group for Middle Eastern Christians but I have no idea where I got that from and looks like I was wrong! Off to Google further.

[Granwych]

I really like Amy Grant's song "El Shaddai."  Of course, some self-righteous cult had to appropriate the name.   Next time I visit with my Jewish SIL I'll have to ask him if he's heard of that group.

[Pukingpearl]

On 12/5/2016 at 4:25 AM, PraiseDog said:

I'm not sure if this is an actual fundy encounter, but I just bumped into a very odd-seeming new religious group in my small town, and I'd like to hear you folks' opinions about it.

The other day on my way to work, I noticed that a small office building which had been sitting vacant for several years has now been renovated, and two of the new signs installed out front (among a couple lawyers and accountants) are:  "Torah for all Nations" and "El Shaddai Ministries." My first thought was, "that's awesome, maybe there are more Jewish people living here in my small town than I realized," since I've never met any local Jewish people in my 14 years of living here, although we have a wide variety of churches of all flavors here (one on every corner, almost) we don't have a synagogue.

Then I started to wonder, because "ministries" seems like odd word to use in the context of Judaism, so when I got home I did some googling.  The "Torah for all Nations" has a website, but there's nothing on it - looks like it's just in the first stage of being built.  The "El Shaddai Ministries" website, on the other hand, has all kinds of interesting but conflicting things on it.

First of all, the "leader" calls himself  "Pastor Mark Something-or-other," not Rabbi.  He studied at some Christian college, and doesn't mention Hebrew school, Yeshiva, or even any actual Divinity degree or ordination (unless it's hidden somewhere, I admit I just skimmed.)   There are a few pictures and videos of services, and not only is there no Hebrew spoken and none of the men wearing yarmulkes, this guy's preaching style seems really fundy-esque. Here's a link to the website: http://elshaddaiministries.us/index.php 

Questions for those of you who know more about these things than I do:

Is this one of those "Messianic Judaism" groups?  One interesting statement on the site says, "we don't want to convert Christians to Judaism, or Jews to Christianity." But the impression I get here is that there aren't many (if any) culturally Jewish members, it's mostly a bunch of Fundies who like ancient rituals, love challah, lox and bagels, and want to play with menorahs and mezuzah. There are also some discussions about beliefs and interpretation of different scriptures from the Bible and Torah, which seem very esoteric to me, having just a basic knowledge of Judaism from reading, introductory coursework in comparative religions, and being invitied to a few Seders by Jewish friends.  And my knowledge of the fine points of Christian theology is just as basic, having ended my Christian education at my forced confirmation (after taking the requisite classes) and no longer being required to go to church or even think much about it after that.

Anyway, this group (or cult, possibly) has their Open House next Saturday.  It includes a ceremony to put Mezuzahs on the doors, as well as a potluck - they insist on no dishes of pork or shellfish, but they say nothing about whether the hot dogs or any other dishes should be Kosher.   Should I go to their Open House, or would it be just a big waste of my time?
Reasons to maybe go would be:  I'm curious about what's going on in my own small-town community.  Who are these people, what do they believe in and why? How much influence might they have or gain in my community?  Are they just Fundies wearing yet another fake mask? Might learning about them be interesting?  If all else fails, might learning about them be snarkworthy?  Should we throw our support to this little splinter group of Fundies who support Jewish traditions, since so many others are anti-Semitic? I don't know...if I do go, I'll need to prepare a questionnaire of their opinions while making it seem like just conversation. I'm not a professional journalist, but information is always worthwhile.
Reasons to skip it:  It's possible they are just fakers - a boring lot of Christians who are so uneducated,  they're searching for some historical tradition no matter how fake...

I grew up in a very conservative Christian town, and there was a tendency there to be obsessed with all things Hebrew/Old Testament. People wanted to learn Hebrew words, some of them started to follow Kosher diets (not many, though; the attachment to bacon was stronger than their faith), we even had someone come to our church and show us how to hold an authentic Passover Seder. Few of these people were actually familiar with someone of he Jewish faith, however. It was more of a way to make their religion seem more authentic, in my opinion. As someone who loves history and culture, it was appealing to me at a young age. 

[PraiseDog]

Thanks for all your replies - after hearing your opinions as well as further reading, I think I'll just skip it.  I'm getting more and more of an impression that this group is mostly about appropriating cultural traditions that don't belong to them, for their own ends.  And any group who's into "End Times" and thinks "Armageddon's coming soon, so we have to do x,y and Z) is not one I want to associate with in any way, shape or from, even just from a passing interest. 

[Jucifer]

On 11/25/2016 at 1:56 PM, 19BabyGerkins said:

Yes Seventh Day Adventists do not wear jewlery of any form.  

I was a SDA kid in the 60s and 70s. In the churches we belonged to at that time wedding rings were OK. I got the impression that the rules varied a bit from church to church.

In the mid 70s a discreet scatter pin or brooch started to be accepted. No earrings ever.

I was fascinated by jewelry from an early age.  

Now making it and collecting it is my favorite hobby.   

Edited December 8, 2016 by Jucifer

[Jucifer]

On November 12, 2016 at 5:16 PM, Percy said:

I am not too sure what I believe any more, but,  I just can't believe that God is intolerant.  

People should just accept that we are not all wired the same.  Let people be who they need to be and love who they love.  ( Illegal activities excepted).

Why should one group push their beliefs on to anothers.  

A lot of Religions do good but there are some who seem to feel that their way is the only way.  

I am not expressing myself well.  Christ worked with the poor, the lepors , the prostitutes and did not say look at me and how good I am, he just got on with it.

There are religious groups and others who do good where needed and don't shout about it.

 Those who preach loudly and say 'look at as and how godly and Christian we are' seem to be the intolerant ones.  They help so people can see they are good Christians, and they only help those who the Christians deem as worthy.

ramblings over.

I'm not sure what I believe anymore either, Percy. 

I'm not sure it even matters. 

In my way of thinking,  who are we humans to decide what god's will is if God even exists?  Wouldn't that be the ultimate form of hubris? Wouldn't that be a sin? 

I think the golden rule is the best guiding principle.  Other than that, I've got nothing.

It's late at night here and I'm in slumber party mode.  Who's up for Jiffy Pop?

 

 

Edited December 8, 2016 by Jucifer