Joy-Anna turns 18th on Oct 28th

[Drala]

I'm hoping at least one of the kids has above average intelligence and insatiable curiosity.  That sort of a kid would feel driven to learn and to naturally question basic assumptions despite the koolaid conditioning. Not sure, however, that J'chelle or JimBoob have enough genetic variation to pass along these sort of traits.  In any event, the social isolation prevents breaking loose until much later than 18.

[halcionne]

I'm hoping at least one of the kids has above average intelligence and insatiable curiosity.  That sort of a kid would feel driven to learn and to naturally question basic assumptions despite the koolaid conditioning. Not sure, however, that J'chelle or JimBoob have enough genetic variation to pass along these sort of traits.  In any event, the social isolation prevents breaking loose until much later than 18.

Unpopular opinion, I know, but I do think several kids possess those qualities. I'm still rooting for Jessa; it's early days yet in her married/adult life, and I've got her pegged as a slow burner--jmo. Jana, Josiah, Jed and Jer have all shown glimmers of critcal thought at one time or another, and Joy and Hannie have, too. #dontstopbelieving 

[singsingsing]

I'm hoping at least one of the kids has above average intelligence and insatiable curiosity.  That sort of a kid would feel driven to learn and to naturally question basic assumptions despite the koolaid conditioning. Not sure, however, that J'chelle or JimBoob have enough genetic variation to pass along these sort of traits.  In any event, the social isolation prevents breaking loose until much later than 18.

Unpopular opinion, I know, but I do think several kids possess those qualities. I'm still rooting for Jessa; it's early days yet in her married/adult life, and I've got her pegged as a slow burner--jmo. Jana, Josiah, Jed and Jer have all shown glimmers of critcal thought at one time or another, and Joy and Hannie have, too. #dontstopbelieving 

I agree with you. I also disagree with the general sentiment that the ones who buy into the fundie crap and stick with it must be morons. Highly intelligent people are capable of falling victim to cults, and those aren't even the ones who were brought up in it, saturated and brainwashed from infancy. I also disagree with almost everything that's said about Jessa on this forum, but that's another story.

I strongly believe that more than one Duggar kid will leave. They may do it gradually and almost imperceptibly, or suddenly and dramatically (personally I think there will be some of each), but some of them WILL leave. There's absolutely no way that every single one of those 19 will stick with it. I have no idea when it will happen, but it will happen. I wouldn't count on getting a tell-all book out of it, but who knows. 

[halcionne]

I'm hoping at least one of the kids has above average intelligence and insatiable curiosity.  That sort of a kid would feel driven to learn and to naturally question basic assumptions despite the koolaid conditioning. Not sure, however, that J'chelle or JimBoob have enough genetic variation to pass along these sort of traits.  In any event, the social isolation prevents breaking loose until much later than 18.

Unpopular opinion, I know, but I do think several kids possess those qualities. I'm still rooting for Jessa; it's early days yet in her married/adult life, and I've got her pegged as a slow burner--jmo. Jana, Josiah, Jed and Jer have all shown glimmers of critcal thought at one time or another, and Joy and Hannie have, too. #dontstopbelieving 

I agree with you. I also disagree with the general sentiment that the ones who buy into the fundie crap and stick with it must be morons. Highly intelligent people are capable of falling victim to cults, and those aren't even the ones who were brought up in it, saturated and brainwashed from infancy. I also disagree with almost everything that's said about Jessa on this forum, but that's another story.

I strongly believe that more than one Duggar kid will leave. They may do it gradually and almost imperceptibly, or suddenly and dramatically (personally I think there will be some of each), but some of them WILL leave. There's absolutely no way that every single one of those 19 will stick with it. I have no idea when it will happen, but it will happen. I wouldn't count on getting a tell-all book out of it, but who knows. 

 It has to be so, so hard to realize what kind of lies you've been told your whole life, come to terms with it, and walk or run away from it. I'm 43, wasn't raised in a cult, independent since age 18, and I still struggle to let go of bad memories and experiences from my childhood. We can't possibly expect that someone who grew up in a cult can just leave on their eighteenth birthday. A few extraordinary people may accomplish it, but they are extraordinary.

Team Jessa! 

[sophie10130]

I'm hoping at least one of the kids has above average intelligence and insatiable curiosity.  That sort of a kid would feel driven to learn and to naturally question basic assumptions despite the koolaid conditioning. Not sure, however, that J'chelle or JimBoob have enough genetic variation to pass along these sort of traits.  In any event, the social isolation prevents breaking loose until much later than 18.

Unpopular opinion, I know, but I do think several kids possess those qualities. I'm still rooting for Jessa; it's early days yet in her married/adult life, and I've got her pegged as a slow burner--jmo. Jana, Josiah, Jed and Jer have all shown glimmers of critcal thought at one time or another, and Joy and Hannie have, too. #dontstopbelieving 

I agree with you. I also disagree with the general sentiment that the ones who buy into the fundie crap and stick with it must be morons. Highly intelligent people are capable of falling victim to cults, and those aren't even the ones who were brought up in it, saturated and brainwashed from infancy. I also disagree with almost everything that's said about Jessa on this forum, but that's another story.

I strongly believe that more than one Duggar kid will leave. They may do it gradually and almost imperceptibly, or suddenly and dramatically (personally I think there will be some of each), but some of them WILL leave. There's absolutely no way that every single one of those 19 will stick with it. I have no idea when it will happen, but it will happen. I wouldn't count on getting a tell-all book out of it, but who knows. 

This makes me wonder, has JD left already? There's lots of speculation that he doesn't really live in the house but at other properties, even if it's just the fact that he's there all the time and only at the TTH to sleep. JD doesn't seem like the one for a huge "seeya later assholes!" goodbye if he does in fact leave the family, anyway.

If JD cleaves, it'll be easier for an unmarried kid to leave because they can live with him. They will still have family support, even if it's just one other sibling. It makes things a lot easier.

[imokit]

I believe in the drift.  I have faith that JD is in the process of a deliberate drift, quietly going to the line, letting parents adjust so they don't realise they've moved the line, then going to the new line.  As he drifts and standards slip, others will follow  (quietly and we might not notice).

 

Also it would be very hard for the Duggars to cut off someone who does something respectable but a big fundy normal.  Unless all the kids have no spark at all (and some of them do, hidden but those sparks are there), I can see one pushing a bit, things getting heated and that kid saying "Josh spent $1000 cheating on his wife, he's molested members of this family, and you didn't cut him out.  How can you cut me out for going to college/getting a job/accidentally kissing my boy/girlfriend?"  It would be behind closed doors and we wouldn't know of the conversation, but any kid pushing the boundaries  has Josh as the ultimate trump card.

Personally though, I think drifts are more likely from the older kids. I don't think we'll see any dramatics until the lost girls/youngest howlers.  The bigger kids have invested too much into the littles to risk blowing things up to an extent they get cut off from them.  A little who left wouldn't have those worries as the big kids will be out of the house with the power to phone without parental permission.

[Buzzard]

I believe in the drift.  I have faith that JD is in the process of a deliberate drift, quietly going to the line, letting parents adjust so they don't realise they've moved the line, then going to the new line.  As he drifts and standards slip, others will follow  (quietly and we might not notice).

 

Also it would be very hard for the Duggars to cut off someone who does something respectable but a big fundy normal.  Unless all the kids have no spark at all (and some of them do, hidden but those sparks are there), I can see one pushing a bit, things getting heated and that kid saying "Josh spent $1000 cheating on his wife, he's molested members of this family, and you didn't cut him out.  How can you cut me out for going to college/getting a job/accidentally kissing my boy/girlfriend?"  It would be behind closed doors and we wouldn't know of the conversation, but any kid pushing the boundaries  has Josh as the ultimate trump card.

Personally though, I think drifts are more likely from the older kids. I don't think we'll see any dramatics until the lost girls/youngest howlers.  The bigger kids have invested too much into the littles to risk blowing things up to an extent they get cut off from them.  A little who left wouldn't have those worries as the big kids will be out of the house with the power to phone without parental permission.

I feel like if JD had "left" he would have a girlfriend or a wife by now.  I have a hard time believing a 26 year old outside of fundydom wouldnt even be dating.  Maybe not hooking up, but he'd be seen at a coffee shop with a woman every now and then. 

[MatthewDuggar]

... I don't think we'll see any dramatics until the lost girls/youngest howlers.  ...

I wonder though, if we might see/hear of one of more of them going to live with one of the married off J'Slaves.  It could be under the veil of being a "helper", but perhaps a bit of an escape.  They were far more imprisoned before older ones started getting married off and really had no other options.

[halcionne]

I believe in the drift.  I have faith that JD is in the process of a deliberate drift, quietly going to the line, letting parents adjust so they don't realise they've moved the line, then going to the new line.  As he drifts and standards slip, others will follow  (quietly and we might not notice).

 

Also it would be very hard for the Duggars to cut off someone who does something respectable but a big fundy normal.  Unless all the kids have no spark at all (and some of them do, hidden but those sparks are there), I can see one pushing a bit, things getting heated and that kid saying "Josh spent $1000 cheating on his wife, he's molested members of this family, and you didn't cut him out.  How can you cut me out for going to college/getting a job/accidentally kissing my boy/girlfriend?"  It would be behind closed doors and we wouldn't know of the conversation, but any kid pushing the boundaries  has Josh as the ultimate trump card.

Personally though, I think drifts are more likely from the older kids. I don't think we'll see any dramatics until the lost girls/youngest howlers.  The bigger kids have invested too much into the littles to risk blowing things up to an extent they get cut off from them.  A little who left wouldn't have those worries as the big kids will be out of the house with the power to phone without parental permission.

I feel like if JD had "left" he would have a girlfriend or a wife by now.  I have a hard time believing a 26 year old outside of fundydom wouldnt even be dating.  Maybe not hooking up, but he'd be seen at a coffee shop with a woman every now and then. 

For the record, he's 25 until January.

[hollywood]

I think it will happen when eventually they have no tv show and the media has 100% lost interest. They eventually do.

[singsingsing]

Honestly, I know a lot of people JD's age who rarely or never date. It's not everyone's cup of tea, or some people are prone to rejection, or what have you. He strikes me as a quiet, reserved kind of guy, maybe not the sort of go on a lot of dates under any circumstances. Plus, I really can't see John-David in a coffee shop. And I think if he were going to date, he'd want to be pretty discrete about it.

I think JD might be a Zach Bates type, where he exerts a little independence and rebels in a few small ways, but ultimately stays more or less in line with his family values.

[AngelGirl8811]

Honestly, I know a lot of people JD's age who rarely or never date. It's not everyone's cup of tea, or some people are prone to rejection, or what have you. He strikes me as a quiet, reserved kind of guy, maybe not the sort of go on a lot of dates under any circumstances. Plus, I really can't see John-David in a coffee shop. And I think if he were going to date, he'd want to be pretty discrete about it.

I think JD might be a Zach Bates type, where he exerts a little independence and rebels in a few small ways, but ultimately stays more or less in line with his family values.

Yeah that's pretty much the way that I think of JD too. He won't ever come out against his family but he'll fight a few small battles and he'll win them. Plus Daddy owns his plane. It wouldn't be in his best interest to tell them to shove it. 

[st4rfl33t]

@isarhenne (sorry, I still can't figure out how to cut down these huge quotes) just FYI, you didn't sound calm at all. You sounded upset. I know internet communication can be iffy, which is why I'm saying this to you. If you didn't want to come across that way you probably shouldn't have lamented that you were being attacked and punctuated everything with '??!!!!!' - That sends a certain message.

OT... but I LOVE your avatar!!

JT can stimulate MY economy anytime he wants.

[Cats B4 Quivers]

I like Joy and hope she's the person who defines her future and not her father or a husband of her father's choosing. It is incredibly difficult to escape an abusive family when the heads of that family do not want you to leave. If JD has quietly made his own independence, then Joy (and another Duggar majority aged kid) could have a safe place to launch away. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

It's probably not going to happen, but I really, really, really, really wish it would. Really. 

Me too!

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

I'm hoping at least one of the kids has above average intelligence and insatiable curiosity.  That sort of a kid would feel driven to learn and to naturally question basic assumptions despite the koolaid conditioning. Not sure, however, that J'chelle or JimBoob have enough genetic variation to pass along these sort of traits.  In any event, the social isolation prevents breaking loose until much later than 18.

Unpopular opinion, I know, but I do think several kids possess those qualities. I'm still rooting for Jessa; it's early days yet in her married/adult life, and I've got her pegged as a slow burner--jmo. Jana, Josiah, Jed and Jer have all shown glimmers of critcal thought at one time or another, and Joy and Hannie have, too. #dontstopbelieving 

I agree with you. I also disagree with the general sentiment that the ones who buy into the fundie crap and stick with it must be morons. Highly intelligent people are capable of falling victim to cults, and those aren't even the ones who were brought up in it, saturated and brainwashed from infancy. I also disagree with almost everything that's said about Jessa on this forum, but that's another story.

I strongly believe that more than one Duggar kid will leave. They may do it gradually and almost imperceptibly, or suddenly and dramatically (personally I think there will be some of each), but some of them WILL leave. There's absolutely no way that every single one of those 19 will stick with it. I have no idea when it will happen, but it will happen. I wouldn't count on getting a tell-all book out of it, but who knows. 

I do think there will be several kids that go "fundie lite" I'm sure at some point 1 or 2 of them may even go mainstream conservative.  As the kids grow and marry off it will be harder and harder to keep control of them all, and a few independent thoughts will creep in and one of the girls might go to the store alone or talk to a strange boy.  But I really don't look to see this happen until the lost girls reach marriageable age. 

[Guest]

I used to have so much hope for Jinger, and then Josiah, and then Joy.  But I've had to accept that if anyone escapes, it will mostly likely be one of the Lost Girls, many years from now.  And I'm not counting on that happening either.

[kimhoward]

Before the Joshly Madison scandal, I couldn't imagine any of the kids rebilling and bolting the way we wish they all would. Think about the consequences that would have entailed… Not only having to be on your own with Limited job prospects and education, but you would risk killing the livelihood of your entire family – just like Josh did. The Duggar brand isn't completely dead yet, but it will be soon and once that happens, there won't be much financial consequence to telling Jim Bob and Michelle to go pound salt. They won't be giving up their cushy lives of being paid handsome sums just for going about their lives. Once their livelihood isn't dependent on The whole family maintaining this "perfect family" facade, someone is bound to bolt.

 

 

 

[lilith]

I was reading Chelsy Bontrager's blog on modesty the other day (mind numbing stuff, but I have an interest in the Bontragers), and she mentioned that there are certain standards she sticks to out of respect while she's living under her parent's roof, not out of personal conviction. While that probably means that she has a secret hankering to wear pants, a la Alyssa Bates Webster, it made me wonder about the Duggar kids and how many are simply towing the party line out of respect for their parents. Honouring their mother and father is a tenet that has been drilled into the, from day one, so it wouldn't surprise me if many of them changed and pursued non approved activities when they leave home, whether for marriage of bible college

[Furbabies]

Could Joy-Anna get in contact with David Keller ( Anna's brother that called Josh a pig... not sure if I got the name correct).  Or have secretly called DHS?  I'm a firm believer that where there's a will, there's a way.

[whirlybird]

Honestly, I know a lot of people JD's age who rarely or never date. It's not everyone's cup of tea, or some people are prone to rejection, or what have you. He strikes me as a quiet, reserved kind of guy, maybe not the sort of go on a lot of dates under any circumstances. Plus, I really can't see John-David in a coffee shop. And I think if he were going to date, he'd want to be pretty discrete about it.

I agree with this 100%.   My husband and I married really young, but my brother in law pretty much didn't date at all in his 20's.  He did eventually meet a girl and is in a serious relationship now (and has been for 4 or 5 years now), but that didn't happen until he was in his mid 30's.  No crazy fundie lifestyle involved at all - honestly I suspect he just didn't want to be tied down with a relationship

[Jenesis]

I think John David may be pushing the boundaries and Jana too.  Maybe they are in on it together.  If JD can show he is ok living alone and Jana can convince Jim Bob into letting her go to school and she does well, both of them could have a sibling roommate eventually...and slowly they would be exposed to a different life while not getting shunned by the parents.  More difficult for Jana if she feels that the younger kids would be homesick for her.  I am anxious to see if Joy Anna starts courting soon or has potential suitors. 

[lookinggoodforjesus]

I think Hannie could be the one to get away. When she was younger, she appeared to be quite smart, and very curious. On the show she often looked like she was quite unimpressed and fully aware that it was all bullshit. She appeared more aware than some of her older siblings. I hope that she's still like that.

Or a son could slowly shift away. JB and Michelle both seem a bit disinterested in their younger sons, and not many know who they are anyway. One could leave and go unnoticed for quite some time :)

[lawlifelgbt]

Statistically, the chances of there being at least one gay or bisexual Duggar kid are about 87%, assuming 10% of the population is, which may be a conservative estimate. .9^19 = .135 or so, equaling 13.5%. Subtract that from 100% (the LGBTQ and not, total), and get 86.5 something something percent. Plus, that figure may be higher for males due to the "older brother" correlation- that is, the more older brothers a boy has, the more likely he is to be gay. Not a certainty, but it has been studied and shown to up the odds.

[HarleyQuinn]

I wish she would run away, file some sort of civil suit against Josh and write a tell all about her family, but alas, it won't happen.

She has nowhere to go.