Titus2's Steve Maxwell: Seriously Anti-Fun

[sparkles]

Sparkles, your scenario reminds me of John List: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_List. The similarities between him and Steve Maxwell are eerie.

Oh, definitely, John List is always who comes to mind of when I think of how far Steve might go.

I just don't understand Steve. Is he just a well-meaning dad doing his best (in his mind anyway) to protect his family from perceived evils in the world? Or a crazy, abusive control-freak trying to insulate his family from learning there are actually still good things out there beyond Max-hell? Sadly, I fear it's the latter.

Babycakes, I think it's a combination of the two. He may have started out as a well-meaning dad, concerned not only for his family but everyone else's as well, but then his control-freak tendencies took over and things went off the rails. I don't think he's capable of objective self-examination, nor do I think he knows how to admit he might be wrong. Steve's way is the only way, because he's convinced that's what god wants (and conveniently, what god wants is exactly what STEVE wants). I can't imagine what it must be like to be brought up believing that everything and everyone--yourself included--is inherently evil and the only reason for living a "good" life is because you're afraid of where you'll go when you die.

I think the entire Maxwell mindset was spelled out in a short sentence that Anna wrote in a Thanksgiving post: "I know I deserve hell…" It was one of the saddest things I've ever read. Why, Anna? Why would you deserve hell? Just for being born? That's the kind of thinking that Steve's drummed into them.

Edited because code and quote are not the same thing

[Justme]

Do, does this mean Steve is not allowed to have sex with Teri? She is past menopause, thus can't get pregnant. Hence, his "seed" would be "wasted" according to their beliefs....

[fiery redhead]

This goes to show that Steve really uses the Bible for his own stupid demigod world he has going on in his head. In his argument that learning should not be fun so people don't get tired of the Bible he is saying that religion is all head knowledge, not a heart's desire. He doesn't really want his kids or anyone else to truly follow what they find God to be, he wants to be the guy with all the answers.

[Crocoduck]

Quotes snipped

Oh, definitely, John List is always who comes to mind of when I think of how far Steve might go.

So, I just read the Wiki about John List. Yikes! I do hope we're all just crazy internet speculators, but the commonalities are frightening. To quote Wiki:

A court-appointed psychiatrist testified that List suffered from obsessive-compulsive personality disorder, and that he saw only two solutions to his situation: accept welfare, or kill his family and send their souls to Heaven. Welfare was an unacceptable option, he reasoned, because it would expose him and his family to ridicule and violate his authoritarian father's teachings regarding the care and protection of family members.

[Jezebel]

In his latest Dad's corner he says learning should not be fun. Fuck you Steve.

Oh, Steve--you're just so full of shit, I'm surprised it isn't leaking out your ears.

Learning was never going to be fun in your household because you had a deeply-depressed, barely-functioning wife who didn't want to homeschool in the first place. Hell, she questioned whether she even loved her children--was she really going to go out of her way to make lessons fun and engaging and enjoyable for them? No.

So it was textbooks and workbooks and the kids largely being left to study on their own, under a rigid schedule, with a "teacher" who fell apart whenever things didn't go exactly as planned. Her annual meltdowns over the first day of school speak volumes as to how much capacity for "fun" she had.

But here's another thing: When learning is truly enjoyable, people get passionate over it. They want more. They want to explore their favorite subjects in more depth, and hone their skills, which leads to new and interesting things to get excited about. And as they do that, their self-image changes. They begin to imagine where their learning might take them, and what it might enable them to do.

And if they enjoy learning so much for its own sake, they are likely to come across ideas you don't like, or discover that the "facts" you've told them about reality are all lies. They might develop ideas of their own, and base their worldview on what is known and provable, rather than faith. And they might use those ideas you don't like in order to destroy your arguments for why they should live and believe according to your desires.

Steve, you and Teri had no interest in actually educating your children. What you really wanted was to train them so they would remain perpetually enmeshed and obedient and compliant and never abandon you (as you so obviously fear). The worst thing that could have happened was for any one of your kids to have a stand-out talent, or be smarter than you--because they might just wake up and realize they had other options besides staying in your personal cult.

So that's why you cut them off from the world and led them to think of it as "filth"; saw to it that they got a bare-bones, drearily uninspiring education that has left them intellectually impoverished; derailed any sign of ability or talent that might have posed a future threat (which son had to give up playing the guitar?); and have coddled them in their mediocrity--be it in singing, writing, web design; photography, or any of the other "talents" you occasionally brag about.

[Odd1Out]

So then why then do they make balloon animals and let Anna dress up like a clown to hand out tracts to kids? Wouldn't that be considered fun, Steve?

And having pie and games with 'the elderly', why do that at all.

Steve, I do think you'll face God one day. And he's going to ask you why you sucked the joy out of life for your family. You do not do well Steve, not at all.

[Elegant Mess]

Raise your hand if you think Stevehovah actually has fun ranting against fun!

[Jana814]

Raise your hand if you think Stevehovah actually has fun ranting against fun!

I do!!

[fundiefan]

Typical Steve. What a miserable creature he is. His god has failed to provide him with joy and peace. He's actually paranoid, terrified, anxiety ridden and obsessive.

[kpmom]

So then why then do they make balloon animals and let Anna dress up like a clown to hand out tracts to kids? Wouldn't that be considered fun, Steve?

And having pie and games with 'the elderly', why do that at all.

Steve, I do think you'll face God one day. And he's going to ask you why you sucked the joy out of life for your family. You do not do well Steve, not at all.

I wondered that too, but then realized Steve had an agenda with every one of those activities.

[FoxyMoxie]

Stevehovah does not strike me as autistic, but a sociopath. Please don't associate neurodivergence (which includes both autism and OCD, along with ADHD etc) with people like him. Yes, neurodivergent people can be assholes but actually most autistic people are HIGHLY empathetic - it's just that they cannot control how they receive information about the world and get 'overloaded' by all the sensory information. Steve appears to enjoy controlling others, whereas autistic people generally do not enjoy the control they need over life to cope with it.

[Elegant Mess]

So, I was just over at Titus2, and I realized that this weekend is the first of their Energize! conferences (in West Virginia).

Looking at the conference schedule, I don't see anything new. However, I decided to have a bit of *gasp!* fun attempting to re-name the session titles to be a little more energizing true-to-life. The new titles that I came up with are in red. Enjoy! (or not)

Friday 5 p.m.: Making The Best of Work: Employed or Self-Employed, Round Table Session

(Entire families are encouraged to come. Please bring your own picnic dinner.)

You Shouldn't be Working "For the Man". You May Have to Work with Women!

(Entire families are expected to show up on-time. We will judge you and get on your case if you're late. Please bring your own picnic dinner, because we cannot turn five loaves of bread and two fishes into a feast for all.)

Friday 5 p.m.: Schedule Triage, Round Table Session

(Sorry, no eating accommodations for this session.)

Your Daily Schedules Aren't Efficient. Buy our Stuff.

(As we said before, bring your own picnic dinner, because we aren't Jesus. Something to think about.)

Friday 7 p.m.: Heart, Soul, and Spirit

How to Crush your Kids' Hearts, Souls, and Spirits

Saturday 9 a.m.: Today Children—Tomorrow Leaders

Today Children — Tomorrow's Next-Door Neighbors and Flightless Arrows

Saturday 10 a.m.: How to Have an Awesome Day

(for moms and daughters)

How to Survive Yet.Another.Day without Killing Everyone. Hint: Buy our Stuff.

('Cause tedium is wimmins' work!)

Saturday 10 a.m.: Supersonic Leadership—Is Everyone Strapped In?

(for dads and sons)

How to Lead a Flock that Shrinks More and More Every Year

('Cause men don't strap themselves in!)

Saturday 11 a.m.: The Physically Energized Family

How to Get Your Family to Fast Every two Months and Train for Hiking 14ers in Colorado Every Summer

Saturday 11:45 a.m.: Lunch

(Bring a picnic lunch and fellowship with others. There are also fast food establishments nearby.)

Lunch

(Bring your lunch or forage. If you fellowship, don't become friends. They could be a bad influence.)

Saturday 1 p.m.: The Spiritually Energized Family

How to Get Your Family to Fall into Line by Reminding Everyone of Where They're Going When They Die

Saturday 2 p.m.: Dating, Courtship, Betrothal, or Whatever

A Seemingly Endless Rant Against the M. Family

Saturday 3 p.m.: Practical Inspiration: A Family Panel Discussion

We'll Only Answer Questions That Have Been Pre-Screened to Meet with Our Agenda. Also, Buy our Stuff.

So, fellow FJers, how would you re-title these sessions? Inquiring minds want to know! :lol:

[VodouDoll]

They literally consider themselves qualified to teach a course on "supersonic leadership" that people need to "strap in" for? What the everliving fuck has Steve Maxwell led in the past 20 years besides a death cult?

And this

Friday 5 p.m.: Schedule Triage, Round Table Session

(Sorry, no eating accommodations for this session.)

Your Daily Schedules Aren't Efficient. Buy our Stuff.

(As we said before, bring your own picnic dinner, because we aren't Jesus. Something to think about.)

Made me lol and lol. Brilliant.

[shedemei]

Honestly, if it weren't coming from Maxhell I would agree with the message. Things don't have to be fun, and depending on wanting/enjoying doing things to be motivated to do them is not going to serve you well in life. Coming from Steve, though, the message is "learning shouldn't be fun. Everything must involve suffering, because if you're not constantly atoning for sin by suffering and working every second you're on the path to hell."

Aside: back when I was in higher ed there was a lot of talk of "edutainment" being the next best thing. I thought that was bullshit then and I still do now.

[banjobaby]

Do, does this mean Steve is not allowed to have sex with Teri? She is past menopause, thus can't get pregnant. Hence, his "seed" would be "wasted" according to their beliefs....

Maybe that's why Teri has been looking so happy and relaxed lately!

[CyborgKin]

This seems like an inappropriate time to bring up that Voddie Baucham quote:

“A lot of men are leaving their wives for younger women because they yearn for attention from younger women. And God gave them a daughter who can give them that. And instead they go find a substitute daughter….you’ve seen it, we’ve all seen it. These old guys going and finding these substitute daughters.â€

:brain-bleach:

[VodouDoll]

WHAT. YUCK. YUCK YUCK YUCK.

[divadivine]

Oh, definitely, John List is always who comes to mind of when I think of how far Steve might go.

Babycakes, I think it's a combination of the two. He may have started out as a well-meaning dad, concerned not only for his family but everyone else's as well, but then his control-freak tendencies took over and things went off the rails. I don't think he's capable of objective self-examination, nor do I think he knows how to admit he might be wrong. Steve's way is the only way, because he's convinced that's what god wants (and conveniently, what god wants is exactly what STEVE wants). I can't imagine what it must be like to be brought up believing that everything and everyone--yourself included--is inherently evil and the only reason for living a "good" life is because you're afraid of where you'll go when you die.

I think the entire Maxwell mindset was spelled out in a short sentence that Anna wrote in a Thanksgiving post: "I know I deserve hell…" It was one of the saddest things I've ever read. Why, Anna? Why would you deserve hell? Just for being born? That's the kind of thinking that Steve's drummed into them.

Edited because code and quote are not the same thing

I immediately thought of John List as well. Steve Maxwell is a supreme creepy asshat. And he's a fun sucker.

:dance: hi Stevie, you douchecanoe.

[Toothfairy]

So sex shouldn't be fun? Learning shouldn't be fun? Reading shouldn't be fun. Wtf does Steve wants? Robots without any quality for life. People with no feelings or emotions. I swear I wish someone would just kidnap Steve and send him to a mental hospital. I would love to know what his diagnosis is. He doesn't live in reality.

[Jana814]

Steve Maxwell dosen't want his followers kids to have fun cause his kids weren't allowed to.

[salsa]

So what if a kid finds a particular subject interesting and, as a result has (gasp) fun reading about it?

For me, history is as dull as dull can be, but Mr. Salsa actually sought out history books as a kid because he found them fun and interesting. Steve would have me study history forever and have Mr. Salsa study math (which he hates).

[Palimpsest]

I just don't understand Steve. Is he just a well-meaning dad doing his best (in his mind anyway) to protect his family from perceived evils in the world? Or a crazy, abusive control-freak trying to insulate his family from learning there are actually still good things out there beyond Max-hell? Sadly, I fear it's the latter.

The fact that he not only feels that no learning should ever be fun, but is actively trying to convince other dads of the same thing makes me both sad and angry.

I've recently become friends with someone who has a seemingly close (though long-distance) friendship with the Maxwells, particularly Sarah. I've tried not to be too nosy yet, but I really want to pick her brain about the family.

To the first bolded, I think it is both. I think he honestly believes that he is taking care of his family as best he can. He also believes that he is a kindly and compassionate man - who manages his anger and serious control issues nicely, thank you very much, because of his direct line to the Almighty. He is delusional, of course.

The odd thing about Steve and why he is, IMO, in some ways more of a public danger than the John Lists and Papa Pilgrim/Hales of this world, is that he is so determinedly middle class. The anger/sociopathy is hidden under a thin veneer of civil behavior - until he lets the mask fall away. That is how he draws people in.

I believe it won't take much to send him over the edge. I think the Elizabeth Munck episode shook him very badly. He is becoming steadily more paranoid and secretive. If he declines physically or feels that he is losing control, he might slip over the edge List/Hale style. I really hope he doesn't have a psychotic break, but I also think it is a possibility.

To the second bolded: interesting. The "long distance friendship" with the Maxwells is, I believe, all that Steve allows. He doesn't want people to see behind the curtain. The Maxwells do correspond with other families and occasionally visit them. See John Marie, Elissa's family, and a few others. They are not close friends, more long distance acquaintances. Joseph managed to parlay that into courtship, but the Maxwell girls must wait for a guy courageous enough to approach Steve. I'm sure even those favored families get cut off sharply if their Patriarchs argue with Stevehovah in any way. See the Pearls and Botkins, and probably the Duggars are now also deemed unworthy. The Muncks are publically vilified by Steve nowadays.

Most of the Maxwell acquaintances seem to have been met through the conferences, and the chances of the childults making new "friends" seem to dwindle as people lose interest in the Maxwell message and they travel less.

My father also believed that learning shouldn't be fun. I always found it odd.

[Hane]

sparkles and I were unable to see Stevehovah in the wild when the Maxhellions took their road show to a town next to mine. I'd have loved to ask him, "How do you know God even exists? And what proof do you have that the Bible is a reliable text? You do know that it's an aggregation of writings compiled by a series of (often politically motivated) committees, don't you?"

[Palimpsest]

sparkles and I were unable to see Stevehovah in the wild when the Maxhellions took their road show to a town next to mine. I'd have loved to ask him, "How do you know God even exists? And what proof do you have that the Bible is a reliable text? You do know that it's an aggregation of writings compiled by a series of (often politically motivated) committees, don't you?"

I still regret that you and Sparkles didn't take advantage of that. Wasn't it a couple of years ago when I went to the later conference in Greenfield?

Of course when we went we blended in somewhat because I (regrettably) dress rather like a Fundie IRL. For the men, khakis and open neck shirts were de rigueur so Mr. P. didn't stand out either. I did notice a woman wearing defrauding capris but that was it. We were rather obviously older than their usual conference attendee and unaccompanied by children.

I wonder what Steve would do if someone with a lot of ink and piercings or dressed "immodestly" registered and turned up at a conference. Would he see them as fruit for harvest or batten down the hatches and turn them away at the door?

[nausicaa]

I still regret that you and Sparkles didn't take advantage of that. Wasn't it a couple of years ago when I went to the later conference in Greenfield?

Of course when we went we blended in somewhat because I (regrettably) dress rather like a Fundie IRL. For the men, khakis and open neck shirts were de rigueur so Mr. P. didn't stand out either. I did notice a woman wearing defrauding capris but that was it. We were rather obviously older than their usual conference attendee and unaccompanied by children.

I wonder what Steve would do if someone with a lot of ink and piercings or dressed "immodestly" registered and turned up at a conference. Would he see them as fruit for harvest or batten down the hatches and turn them away at the door?

I believe that treemom and co. were not particularly fundiefied. They were wearing pants and had short hair. They also admitted to not being Christian :o