Lori Alexander - Still Not Learning A Thing, Part 3

[GeoBQn]

I knew a ton of Bible verses as a kid.  Of course, they were all in Hebrew, which I doubt Lori would have shelled out money for.

[salex]

I knew a ton of Bible verses as a kid.  Of course, they were all in Hebrew, which I doubt Lori would have shelled out money for.

I am guessing that in my neighborhood, most of the kids would know a verse or two (or way more) and if not, they would learn one quickly from a buddy.  
"Jesus Wept"  or  

2nd Kings 23-24 (seems especially good for Halloween) 

23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the Lord. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

 

[Koala]

*sigh* Andrea is guest posting again today.

She practically writes a book blathering on about how she's too holy for her church.  She gives a laundry list of her virtues and an equally long list of the faults of the other ladies at church.  They simply can't relate to her- she's too much like Jesus.  She's not judging them (and their fake smiles and hugs) mind you...just observing.

My personal convictions, though worn humbly and quietly, quite possibly cause other women to wonder. 

I guess if by "humbly and quietly" she means "blasted over the web repeatedly for the entire world to see" then she totally nailed it 

Seriously though, the martyr complex is strong with that one.

[jerkit]

The self-righteousness. Blech.

How do other people possible manage to have friendships with people who aren't exactly like them?

[Loveday]

Andrea, if no one has ever invited you back to anything, it's quite likely that--wait for it--the fault lies not with them, but with you.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Lori is so very dumb.

 

And this is the woman who was homeschooling her kids in high school...

[usmcmom]

In a very small way, I can relate to Andrea - but only in the sense of feeling kind of isolated at church. I went through that for a short time when my kids were young.  Friendships had shifted and I felt left out of the loop.  After feeling sorry for myself for a bit I decided to keep my eyes open at church and look for another young woman who didn't seem to be hanging out with a circle of friends each week. Basically I said to myself "maybe there's someone else who is lonely too."  I found her and we ended up forming a wonderful, deep friendship.  I learned her story and she learned mine.  Turns out she felt isolated because the church was full of young mothers (like myself) and she was struggling with infertility. 

I wonder if Andrea has every bothered to learn the stories of these other ladies.  Maybe the ones who "only have one or two children" are like me and wished desperately to have more but could not.  Maybe some of them work to pay huge medical bills or to help support aging parents. Maybe they work because they simply feel it is the right thing for their family.   Maybe she needs to accept them where they are just as she wishes they'd accept her. 

I have a feeling many of these ladies have tried to reach out to Andrea and she has always made it clear that they did not quite measure up to her righteous standards.  If EVERYONE at that church is as awful as she says they are, then it is not a Bible believing church and they need to find a new church.   I suspect she likes the martyr role, though; and is content to be persecuted because she is the most Christ like of the bunch. 

 

 

[Koala]

In a very small way, I can relate to Andrea - but only in the sense of feeling kind of isolated at church. I went through that for a short time when my kids were young.  Friendships had shifted and I felt left out of the loop.  After feeling sorry for myself for a bit I decided to keep my eyes open at church and look for another young woman who didn't seem to be hanging out with a circle of friends each week. Basically I said to myself "maybe there's someone else who is lonely too."  I found her and we ended up forming a wonderful, deep friendship.  I learned her story and she learned mine.  Turns out she felt isolated because the church was full of young mothers (like myself) and she was struggling with infertility. 

I wonder if Andrea has every bothered to learn the stories of these other ladies.  Maybe the ones who "only have one or two children" are like me and wished desperately to have more but could not.  Maybe some of them work to pay huge medical bills or to help support aging parents. Maybe they work because they simply feel it is the right thing for their family.   Maybe she needs to accept them where they are just as she wishes they'd accept her. 

I have a feeling many of these ladies have tried to reach out to Andrea and she has always made it clear that they did not quite measure up to her righteous standards.  If EVERYONE at that church is as awful as she says they are, then it is not a Bible believing church and they need to find a new church.   I suspect she likes the martyr role, though; and is content to be persecuted because she is the most Christ like of the bunch. 

 

 

Well said.  I totally agree with the bolded.  How would she highlight her own holiness if she wasn't a martyr? 

[usmcmom]

I have found that the church is just "too busy" for each other on a larger scale. When I was growing up I remember being invited to people's homes frequently for Sunday dinner. Through the years that lessened and now if people go out to lunch together it is to a restaurant where time and fellowship are limited. I don't think it is intentional so much but not enough people have been intentional on being hospitable and it has resulted in shallow relationships all around. I feel I need to do what I can to buck that trend in my church.

I have found just the opposite with after-church lunches.  We go out with a fairly large group each week and often sit in the restaurant for two or three hours visiting after the meal.  When someone hosts in their home the hostess, especially, and usually all the women are too busy with preparing and serving the meal to have meaningful visits. If we invite somebody out to a restaurant, and they have expressed concern over the price of eating out, we usually "conspire" to find a way to pay for their family's meal.  "It's our tradition to pay for first timers."  Or "hey, you helped paint that room last week, let us thank you by picking up your check."  I don't say this to "humble brag" but to show that that ARE ways to fellowship and be hospitable even in a restaurant setting.  Some of our fondest memories and deepest friendships came from these after-church restaurant lunches.  These are the people that have walked through the darkest times with us. They were some of the first to be listed on our daughter's wedding guest list. I can't imagine celebrating a big life event without them. 

It IS okay to think outside the box when it comes to forming relationships with fellow church members. 

[Koala]

Lori:

I love this post, also! I have been banned from "Christian blogs" and told at churches not to teach about women being keepers at home or to be submissive.

Wonder who banned The Godly Mentor?  

I love how Lori put "Christian" in quotes.  No true Scotsman would disagree with her, so they must be "Christians" instead of Christians.  They probably just don't know that she speaks for The God of the Universe. 

As for the food- Andrea was just complaining the other day about women who don't cook the right sort of food- not healthy (like hers)...because her families health actually matters to her!  It's no wonder no one brings her food or invites her to dinner.  They don't want to see their meal critiqued on Lori's blog by the Ever Godly Andrea.

 

[sawasdee]

I find it fascinating that so many obviously good and lasting relationships have been forged through the church. When I was still a churchgoer (35+ years ago) we rarely spoke to any attendee we didn't know in another context. As for going to lunch together - well, the younger guys would go to the pub.....everyone else went home.I'm UK /RC, and love reading how different the US(esp) church experience is, and I wonder how it has evolved over the last 40 years?

[2xx1xy1JD]

*sigh* Andrea is guest posting again today.

She practically writes a book blathering on about how she's too holy for her church.  She gives a laundry list of her virtues and an equally long list of the faults of the other ladies at church.  They simply can't relate to her- she's too much like Jesus.  She's not judging them (and their fake smiles and hugs) mind you...just observing.

I guess if by "humbly and quietly" she means "blasted over the web repeatedly for the entire world to see" then she totally nailed it 

Seriously though, the martyr complex is strong with that one.

I don't think "humbly" means what she thinks it means.  If you refrain from actually giving somebody a lecture on how they dressed like a slut, but give them dirty looks, think that you are the holy one and that they are inappropriate - they are going to have a feeling that you aren't really humble about it.  And if you post online under your real name, it's possible that some of these intelligent ladies may actually have internet access and find you, because that's how the internet works, and they will see actually what you think of them.

Can Lori arrange for her to have a playdate with TheJoyFilledWife?  She seems to need some help making friends, and those two would love each other.

I may not be Christian, but I do know something about people who manage to have friendships across the religious observance divide.  It's not that hard.

1.  Be realistic.  People will have different interests and schedules, and that's ok.  The people who don't invite you over for tea may not be inviting anyone over for tea.

2.  Be a genuine friend, take an interest in their life, and see the best in them.  Nobody really wants to be viewed as a poor soul in need of salvation.  If these women go to your wonderful church - maybe, just maybe, you have something in common with them, and they are not the enemy.

3.  Don't offer to do things with a hidden expectation that it will be reciprocated.  If you invite someone for dinner - do it because you want to have them over for dinner.  Period.  Let that bring you joy.  I know people in the secular world who do this as well, grumbling because other people don't automatically do everything that they have decided to do in return, and they make themselves absolutely miserable.  Look:  not everybody is into hosting others for dinner, it doesn't occur to everybody else to welcome babies, etc.  Personally, I host family and friends on Friday nights because I choose to do it.  It's my "thing", it's part of my schedule and lifestyle, I enjoy it and I've gotten to the point in my life where it's easy.  There were years, though, where we were the recipients of hospitality.  I was grateful, I enjoyed it, but I was not in a position to reciprocate.

4.  Some of these ladies may simply be intimidated on a practical level, not a religious level.  If you are a working mom with one or two kids, inviting a family with 10 kids over for dinner seems pretty daunting.

5.  Is there a general problem with mothers not getting support from the church?  Well, instead of complaining, maybe look around and see if you can be part of a change.  Organize a "kindness and support" committee.  Get people to sign up, and send out alerts whenever someone gives birth, or has a death in the family, or is dealing with a health problem.  People can sign up to send meals, help with other kids, provide visits if wanted and provide drives.

6.  Be the one to break the ice.  Have a sense of humor.  Share some homebaked stuff with others.  Organize a baking night, having the participants keep one item and then give away the rest to those in need.  You can get a reputation for being approachable despite your different look, for always being there when someone is in need, for loving all without judgment, etc.  I see this ALL THE TIME in my community.  While it's a predominantly Jewish area, we have a mix of groups and levels of observance.  It can be intimidating when you see someone at the grocery store wearing long skirt, long sleeves and a haircovering, while you have yoga pants and a t-shirt.  When they see, though, and they don't bat an eyelash at what you are wearing but greet your warmly and talk about stuff you have in common, that intimidation factor disappears.

[FundieFarmer]

We're from a very conservative denomination and these types of things are fairly run-of-the-mill with some of our fellow parishioners. 

Mr. FF and I were not of that persuasion. On Friday, I went to work as the Wicked Witch of the East because...literary character. Then, we went to a party together as sailors and had a generally wonderful time. You can have Halloween without being infatuated with death, and without being a loony who turns others off from Christianity. 

I'm not sure about this dollars-for-verses thing. 

[salex]

We're from a very conservative denomination and these types of things are fairly run-of-the-mill with some of our fellow parishioners. 

Mr. FF and I were not of that persuasion. On Friday, I went to work as the Wicked Witch of the East because...literary character. Then, we went to a party together as sailors and had a generally wonderful time. You can have Halloween without being infatuated with death, and without being a loony who turns others off from Christianity. 

I'm not sure about this dollars-for-verses thing. 

The dollars for verses thing sounds like a big old lie or made up sermon, to me.  

[FundieFarmer]

I wasn't really clear from her post but...what if they just memorized "Jesus wept?" I mean, pretty much anybody could say that for $5.

[Hisey]

Andrea guest posted today about how hard it is to make friends when you are *really holy* like she is. No one likes you! People are intimidated by your long (yet fashionable) skirts and perfect kids. Lots of Lori's readers agreed, and said that they, too, were too holy to have any friends.

Interestingly, not one was charitable enough to respond to "Guest", who wrote about her husband's long-term unemployment. She asked for prayers. Unfortunately, the ladies of Lori's blog were too busy saying "Me too! I'm too holy too" to respond to this poor woman.

[Loveday]

I wasn't really clear from her post but...what if they just memorized "Jesus wept?" I mean, pretty much anybody could say that for $5.

As soon as I read that, I was reminded of the original Waltons Christmas show, 'The Homecoming.' A missionary lady came to Walton's Mountain with a pile of presents (actually used toys), and any child who came up to her and recited a Bible verse received a present. Mary Ellen sent child after child up with Bible verses she knew. One of the children told her the verse she'd given him was too long, so she gave him 'Jesus wept.'

Odd coincidence? Knowing Lori, I doubt it.

[Koala]

Lori recently wrote that submissive though she may be, she wouldn't be able to hand out Halloween candy because of her recent health problems (paraphrase).  Totally understand.  She's been in the ICU, and if she didn't want to be answering the door all night I can't blame her (though I wonder why Ken couldn't do it).

She was, however, up to hosting a BBQ:

We had a BBQ at our home last week and every one stayed for hours. We wouldn't have done that at a restaurant! We are called to hospitable and part of hospitality is eating in THE HOME!

So, handing out candy (in a show of submission to Ken, who wants to celebrate Halloween)?  Too sick.

Hosting a BBQ that lasts several hours the week of Halloween?  Done!

Got it. 

[polecat]

Lori, the image you chose to share on your blog today was extremely defrauding. I can see straight up that woman's (very very short) skirt -- indeed, the entirety of her legs are exposed! And you know where those legs lead? I'm all agog. Simply agog! 

And really, if no one is inviting you places, have you ever considered inviting people to your place? Get the ball rolling ... and then welcome people in graciously and with arms wide open rather than eyeballing the hemline of their skirts or their plunging necklines (erm, Lori? I'm looking at YOU) or their gaudy makeup. Just be kind. Proverbs 18:24: A man that has friends must show himself friendly. If you don't have friends, maybe the problem is YOU.

 

(And I say this as an introvert. I don't have gaggles of friends breaking down my door at any given time, but I do have close friends who are in my heart and I in theirs because introversion does not equal isolation.)

 

[Koala]

Andrea said:

Truly, our family has no desire to run around and be busy or entertained, or to very frequently go places or to homes, or to constantly have people over.

Is she serious??? This is the woman who just wrote an entire post whining because no one ever invited her over.  Was she just looking for a chance to turn them down?  Maybe point out that she was far too busy being a godly doormat to waste time "running around being entertained?  Nice.

For years I would ask my husband what was wrong with me that I have no friends. Why

doesn't anyone ever invite us for dinner?  Why do we have families over; some same families,

 

some different, time and again, and never EVER be invited?  Not for hot dogs on the BBQ in

the Summer; not for chicken in the Winter; not for sandwiches after church at the park. No

pot lucks. No showers. No weddings. No room painting parties. No studies. No concerts.

No plays. No play dates. No trips to the lake. Nada. How could they comment about how

much they enjoyed the time, and the meal, and how our children are so well behaved, yet

 

never choose to be my friend in return? How could I deliver a baby, and then another, and

then another, with relatively no one having anything kind to say? No phone call. No meal. No

reciprocity. Why do I have to mentally prepare myself about commentary on my

life before entering church, when it is my life that I am responsible for, and quite sure God

will handle my missteps if I remain submitted to Him? Why does it seem that my dressing in

modest skirts and dresses garners dirty looks, as if I'm the one wearing the low cut tank tops

and short shorts?

 

 

And why is it that she feels God can handle her missteps, but she needs to handle everyone else's? 

[browngrl]

Interesting guest post. Poor Andrea finds ALL the other women - in her church, on blogs, in the general world  mean girl her or ignore her. Oh Andrea. If you meet one asshole - then they are the asshole. If everyone you meet is an asshole, then YOU are the asshole. I'd bet dollars to donuts that this one is busy being self righteous and loudly opinionated 24/7.

[jerkit]

I'm just going to leave this here

 

 

For the first several years, I didn't moderate my comments and it was so frustrating, time-consuming and not enjoyable at all. There are sites out there and there sole purpose is to shut down blogs like ours. They worked on me for a LONG time but mostly have given up since I'm not going to stop teaching Truth. However, since moderating comments, it has made it much more enjoyable! I do have a few who continue to leave mean and nasty comments but they never are shown on my blog.

[Hisey]

Do you realize that every sentence in Andrea's post contains a hidden compliment to herself? It's almost like a game to find it.

When she says

I expect my lifestyle to be very different from the world: Jesus at the center, traditional submitted marriage, joy, serving, simplicity, homemaking, homeschooling, open to life, modest, non-entertainment based, disciplined children, little "me" time outside the home, and living within our means.

She means. . .

I have such a better lifestyle than the rest of the world. Other women have pushed Jesus off to the side, they are rebellious to their effeminiate husbands, they are in pissy moods, they don't have servant's hearts, they buy lots of crap, they could care less about their homes, they send their kids to be raised by government schools, they kill their babies, they dress like sluts, their kids suck, they want time to themselves and they spend all their husbands' money. 

When she says. .  .

 I wear almost exclusively modest skirts and dresses, though I would say I still remain fashionable, as I've always loved dressing nicely! 

This was an easy one. She means. . .

 I'm modest and in fashion! I'm not a frump!

When she says. . .

 Sitting in my living room with a cup of coffee or tea, and a homemade treat, simply is not stimulating enough.

She means. .. 

 I"m fun! So much fun! And I make homemade treats (unlike the crappy stuff they'd serve me, if they ever invited me over).  But only I appreciate simple pleasures. They want worldly entertainment. 

[salex]

from the blog post today

The Word speaks for itself, and each of us must apply it to our lives.

 

When applying the Word to my own life with deep conviction, I caused myself to further be made different from most around me.  

  (most around her would be those who lack deep conviction, those pants wearing women with too few children and evil jobs.  But why can't they be nicer to her and more friendly? She dresses well!

 

 

 Superficial and fake smiles from some and the all-too casual hug that seems to be about as genuine as the social media characters people have crafted themselves to be. Outside of dear friends, or close relatives, it seems hugs have largely become the stamp of Christian compassion, wrapped up in a tidy little bow.  However, leave the walls of the church, and the casual "huggers" will likely never darken a door for a lady like me, or pick up the phone to reach out and check on a wife and mother simply at home.

 

Oh, Honey, the "Social Hug" is not an exclusively Christian thing.  It is a variation on a handshake, and since I'm not a natural hugger (see also raised in the loving but stoic household) it took me YEARS to develop an acceptable social hug.  It means no more than a handshake.... so don't put expectations on it.  

 

 Sitting in my living room with a cup of coffee or tea, and a homemade treat, simply is not stimulating enough. They have other places they could be that aren't so intellectually a black hole.

 

Perhaps you would work on being less of a black hole, intellectually.... it sounds very needy. I am one who has people over often.  Many of our friends have children and grandchildren and we don't.  We are at different life stages (friends range from 40s to 70s) but we find things to talk about-- people's different experiences make conversation more interesting.  Hospitality requires more than tea and a cookie, it requires that you actually care about the other person, their life and respect their choices.  If you don't, you can't expect them to respect you.  Given your obvious low opinion of the women who work, have few kids and are not submissive like you, why would you expect them to seek you out or have a high opinion of you.  

 

I finally have my answer. My personal convictions, though worn humbly and quietly, quite possibly cause other women to wonder. Yes, I write forward articles about my convictions and the current issues facing Christian anti-feminists, but I do not offer up advice or bestow my opinions on others in my daily life.

 

Right.  And the people you write about in your blogs and articles would never know you are talking about them and finding them wanting, just as no one you know personally will read this and recognize how you feel about them, based on their attire, the number of kids they have, if they work or if you find them submissive enough. And publishing articles on this is both quiet and humble... 

 

 

It isn't my place to be judge and jury. My thoughts and convictions come out, I pray, in how I live, not because I judge those who are not living the same way I live.

You can not legitimately call yourself an anti-feminist and not be judging feminists.

 

I think by my dressing modestly, by clearly living out my convictions of serving my husband, of clearly welcoming children into our family, and by remaining at home by choice, I cause other women to examine their hearts. Within this, they judge me, and don't even give me a chance to show my own humanity and shortcomings.

 

Or, they don't care one bit about how you dress or how fecund you are, but are put off by your articles and statements about how evil women who don't do as you do are... not to be judgmental, just telling them what God says, right?

 

 

Am I holier than women who wear jeans or who use birth control or who work or who spend time running around with their friends? As Paul would say, "Perish the thought!" Of course I'm not. If I believed that, we WOULD leave our church in favor of a legalistic one where we could better fit in because everyone obeyed the rules, without being convicted as to why they would want to. I am not holier, I'm simply obeying what I am convicted of. I do believe it's more genuine to remain at a church where people live their convictions, rather than live what they are told to do out of obligation, and their heart never surrenders.

 

 

In other words, you like being outside of the norm at your church, because you stick out more, your holiness is more obvious and you get to play the martyr.... 

 

 

 

Now, for a sample of the nonjudgemental attitude she has toward the women who she feels reject her..... 

 

However, keep in mind that while it seems you are rejected for your lifestyle, God is not ignorant. He placed you in that very place, to be a beacon of truth in a marginalized Christian society. Your influence is not void. Don't change to fit in. Christianity needs women like you in the churches of America, to combat the feminism that has eroded the core and become the complacent cornerstone to apostasy.

 

Those women who are not welcoming you, who are not hospitable, who don't have time for intellectual black holes over coffee and cookies, who wear pants or tank tops, who have a couple of kids then go back to work, who are not submissive... they represent the evil feminism that is destroying not only the country, but leading to churches become apostate.

 

Not to be judgmental or anything.

 

Seems like a lot of "I hate them and find them evil.  Why don't they like me?" 

[Florita]

Am I holier than women who wear jeans or who use birth control or who work or who spend time running around with their friends? As Paul would say, "Perish the thought!" Of course I'm not. If I believed that, we WOULD leave our church in favor of a legalistic one where we could better fit in because everyone obeyed the rules, without being convicted as to why they would want to. I am not holier, I'm simply obeying what I am convicted of. I do believe it's more genuine to remain at a church where people live their convictions, rather than live what they are told to do out of obligation, and their heart never surrenders.

 

In other words, you like being outside of the norm at your church, because you stick out more, your holiness is more obvious and you get to play the martyr.... 

This.

I was feeling pity for her up to this point. She believes everyone who lives like she does, does so out of legalistic obligation. But not Andrea! She does so out of conviction. Since her church doesn't tell her to do whatever it is she does (make babies, wear skirts), yet she does so anyway, that proves her conviction is genuine. She is a speshul snowflake. If she attended a church where baby-making-skirt-wearers were common, she'd just be another snowflake.