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Pedophiles don't change their spots


fundiefan

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25 minutes ago, Howl said:

libriatrix, I'm embarrassed!  I should have read more closely.  I'd read several critiques of Logos and assumed she was talking about the Logos school.  

It's an understandable conflation!

 

 

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9 hours ago, libriatrix said:

 

It's an understandable conflation!

 

 

Well, let me rise from the ashes of my error and note that the DW influence has such a pernicious effect that it can be damaging even far away from Moscow, ID. 

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2 hours ago, Howl said:

Well, let me rise from the ashes of my error and note that the DW influence has such a pernicious effect that it can be damaging even far away from Moscow, ID. 

Hey, when I read the article and its comments on the "Trivium" style of learning, I realized that a homeschool/charter school hybrid here in CA must have been influenced by DW or his ilk.  I used to belong to an online mommies group where one very religious woman always commented on the superior education her daughters were receiving there.  I googled Trivium charter schools CA, and came up with this bit about mismanaged public funds: http://santamariatimes.com/news/local/education/grand-jury-asked-to-investigate-trivium-blochman-district/article_a141e988-8b0d-11e3-a35d-0019bb2963f4.html  Another search about charter school investigations led to this: http://www.prwatch.org/files/new_charter_school_black_hole_report_oct_21_2015.pdf  Idaho wasn't on their list of schools to study, but there are an awful lot of pubic funds being thrown about under the guise of providing choices for parents.   I wonder how many of these schools were influenced by these disturbing religious public figures like DW.  

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Ulysses and Team Truth have uploaded a sworn affidavit about domestic abuse Jamin Wight afflicted on his then-wife. To hear her experience then his testimony is blood-curdling. Wilson is still relying on this man's witness to discredit Natalie. As long as Jamin is useful to Doug, it doesn't matter what he does, his word is golden.

That poor woman. "I just held my hand out and she walked over and it just so happened that circumstances made it so my hand was at the level of her neck so her neck was in my hand. But I didn't SQUEEZE or anything."

The affidavit says that his wife is from England. Is this the girl that was basically assigned to him through the church and the elders?

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39 minutes ago, bea said:

That poor woman. "I just held my hand out and she walked over and it just so happened that circumstances made it so my hand was at the level of her neck so her neck was in my hand. But I didn't SQUEEZE or anything."

The affidavit says that his wife is from England. Is this the girl that was basically assigned to him through the church and the elders?

I don't remember anything about Jamin being set up with a woman -- are you maybe thinking of Steven Sitler and his wife who was introduced to him by an elder after his conviction and sentence as a pedophile?

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Actually it's interesting to me that both Jamin and Steven get lumped as pedophiles when evidence suggests that Jamin is actually not one. Don't get me wrong, they've both done unspeakable things and the cavalier treatment of their "repentance" and neglect of their survivors is grossly negligent. But according to Wikipedia, a pedophile has "a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger." It's sometimes extended to children up to age 13. 

This fits Steven Sitler to a T, as he's been convicted of molesting a 2 year old and has confessed to molesting many other children, which later crimes he plea bargained out of having to serve time for. There's some evidence he's molested in the range of 30 or so separate children. I really don't want to speculate about how much he's attracted to his wife, but he's clearly attracted to children intensely. 

However, it doesn't actually fit Jamin Wight. Natalie was 13, nearly 14, so his abuse of her absolutely qualifies as child molesting but it's a very different variety than Sitler's. As we all know from Doug Wilson's defenses, Natalie was very tall and "developed" and looked like a full-grown woman when she was an adolescent child of 13. It's disgusting to use this to justify Jamin's abuse in any way, but I do think one way it's relevant is that it suggests Jamin isn't sexually attracted to the bodies of children. I think Natalie's youth only mattered to Jamin in that he saw her as an easy target, rather than having any bearing on his attraction per se. While it's possible that Jamin's committed undiscovered and unconfessed crimes, if we look at what he's been caught in -- abuse of a child who looks like a woman and emotional and physical abuse of a grown woman (his now ex-wife) -- I think what you see is your garden variety abuser of women -- not someone with a particular predilection for children. 

Basically, I think Jamin is better referred to as a molester or abuser rather than a pedophile. 

 

To end on a happy note, have we ever mentioned in this thread that Jamin's ex-wife (whom I wish I could refer to by name rather than by an identifier tying her to him!) is now happily re-married? Because she is! He seems like a really nice guy and I hope she is able to relax in being treated well by her partner.

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I read somewhere there is another sexual deviancy that is attracted to early teen girls? It has a specific name, but I can't find it now. But it's true that Jamin is probably not considered a pedophile and that mis-classification gave Doug arguing points for a while. He *IS* a predator, and a violent abusive man, and a liar. 

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4 minutes ago, onlyme said:

I read somewhere there is another sexual deviancy that is attracted to early teen girls? It has a specific name, but I can't find it now. But it's true that Jamin is probably not considered a pedophile and that mis-classification gave Doug arguing points for a while. He *IS* a predator, and a violent abusive man, and a liar. 

Ephebephilia. Honestly I don't think Jamin has that either, although there's not really enough evidence to be conclusive. DEFINITELY a predator; actually that's a better description than the two I suggested.

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Natalie Greenfield has posted part of a transcript of a recorded conversation between her father and Doug Wilson. Throughout it Doug keeps asking if anyone has come to Gary with complaints about himself or Christ Church. He also suggests that Gary sell Bucers because if Gary comes into conflict with the church, his business might suffer.

Katie Botkin has an excellent analysis of this conversation here as well.

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Hey, Cicero, thanks for joining us again.  You've achieved the Tater Tot-level post count, which seems fitting for Moscow related posts (Idaho, taters, etc). 

Currently, based on the content of DW's meeting with Gary Greefield,  I'm thinking of DW as Machiavellian.  Trying to stick to a single-word descriptor these days to avoid sputtering with outrage, and also avoid more colorful terms, like, well, let's not go there.  

Also, I think Gary Greefield lost Bucer's Coffeehouse & Pub in his divorce, so DW does have a little more control over it, depending on his relationship with Natalie's mother, who is Bucer's current owner, AFAIK.  I wonder if he threatens Natalie's mom with loss of business at Bucer's if she doesn't toe the CREC party line. 

A tip o' the hat to wikipedia! 

Quote

Martin Bucer

(11 November 1491 – 28 February 1551) was a German Protestant reformer based in Strasbourg who influenced Lutheran, Calvinist, and Anglican doctrines and practices. Bucer was originally a member of the Dominican Order, but after meeting and being influenced by Martin Luther in 1518 he arranged for his monastic vows to be annulled. He then began to work for the Reformation, with the support of Franz von Sickingen.

 

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There is quite a bit going on at Natalie's kbotkin.com and thewartburgwatch.com about this. 

Just dropping by to advise of the above.  Can't stay, miss y'all. 

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Ready for a little gossip about what goes on in “Oslo”? The new blog “Truth about the CREC” serves up some not-so-blind items for your enjoyment. My favorite is the first, in which N--- W----- is relieved of his penis:

“When her father got involved in never ending, embittering, and embarrassing scandals, she could not say anything. She was loyal and deeply tied to this cannon that did not know how to stop spewing grapeshot. She wanted to defend him. But what would her publishing company, Haphazard House, think? If they found out how closely associated she was with this nightmare of a cult, the story-craft would be over. That’s what husbands are for. Her spouse spoke what she wanted to say. So she kept quiet.”

https://truthaboutthecrec.wordpress.com/2016/02/18/kate-the-not-so-famous-author/

 

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2 hours ago, DomWackTroll said:

Ready for a little gossip about what goes on in “Oslo”? The new blog “Truth about the CREC” serves up some not-so-blind items for your enjoyment. My favorite is the first, in which N--- W----- is relieved of his penis:

“When her father got involved in never ending, embittering, and embarrassing scandals, she could not say anything. She was loyal and deeply tied to this cannon that did not know how to stop spewing grapeshot. She wanted to defend him. But what would her publishing company, Haphazard House, think? If they found out how closely associated she was with this nightmare of a cult, the story-craft would be over. That’s what husbands are for. Her spouse spoke what she wanted to say. So she kept quiet.”

https://truthaboutthecrec.wordpress.com/2016/02/18/kate-the-not-so-famous-author/

 

What a lovely rabbit trail! Thank you, DWT!  But if the woman was Wilson's daughter, it wouldn't have been NDW's equipment on the floor, right?

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6 hours ago, DomWackTroll said:

Ready for a little gossip about what goes on in “Oslo”? The new blog “Truth about the CREC” serves up some not-so-blind items for your enjoyment. My favorite is the first, in which N--- W----- is relieved of his penis:

“When her father got involved in never ending, embittering, and embarrassing scandals, she could not say anything. She was loyal and deeply tied to this cannon that did not know how to stop spewing grapeshot. She wanted to defend him. But what would her publishing company, Haphazard House, think? If they found out how closely associated she was with this nightmare of a cult, the story-craft would be over. That’s what husbands are for. Her spouse spoke what she wanted to say. So she kept quiet.”

https://truthaboutthecrec.wordpress.com/2016/02/18/kate-the-not-so-famous-author/

 

Still trying to figure out if the latest story is about Duck or another teacher who followed him. I really hope it's not Duck.

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Didn't sound like what we've previously read about Duck; did his successor have a spicy name? Or is "duck sauce" a condiment?

 

edited to ask: Have Doug Wilson and Geoff Botkin ever been photographed together? 

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13 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

What a lovely rabbit trail! Thank you, DWT!  But if the woman was Wilson's daughter, it wouldn't have been NDW's equipment on the floor, right?

"Kate" is Nate and the apologist is his wife, Heather, who is constantly defending her father-in-law on social media and even met with Julie Anne of Spiritual Sounding Board to try to smooth things over. 

http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2015/10/13/my-meeting-with-heather-wilson-to-discuss-doug-wilson-sex-abuse-scandals/

 

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Julie Anne met with Heather for coffee (@ Bucer's?) and enjoyed her time with her.... I don't visit Spiritual Sounding Board every day, but I don't think JA  followed up about her visit to Moscow again, although she did meet with other people who were more critical of the CREC.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Howl said:

Julie Anne met with Heather for coffee (@ Bucer's?) and enjoyed her time with her.... I don't visit Spiritual Sounding Board every day, but I don't think JA  followed up about her visit to Moscow again, although she did meet with other people who were more critical of the CREC.  

 

 

Do you suppose Heather bamboozled / neutralized Julie Anne?  I've feared as much. 

1 hour ago, DomWackTroll said:

"Kate" is Nate and the apologist is his wife, Heather, who is constantly defending her father-in-law on social media and even met with Julie Anne of Spiritual Sounding Board to try to smooth things over. 

http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2015/10/13/my-meeting-with-heather-wilson-to-discuss-doug-wilson-sex-abuse-scandals/

 

Two words: D. 'oh.

Of course. I guess the description of K/Nate as "not-so-famous" confuzzled me. I figured I was the only one in the world not to be familiar with NDWilson and took the description literally. 

Thank you!

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9 hours ago, Minion of Stan said:

Dr Erb. Or Ehrb. Or whatever.

Thanks for clearing that up MoS.

4 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

Do you suppose Heather bamboozled / neutralized Julie Anne?  I've feared as much. 

I don't think Julie Anne has been neutralized. She's remained critical of Wilson and Christ Church on her site and twitter. One of the greatest tools that the Wilsons have is that if you do meet them in real life they do act much differently than you'd expect if you've only encountered them online before. if I had to describe DW solely through my personal interactions with him, I'd have to describe him as a jolly, personable man. Take his debate with Andrew Sullivan as an example, DW wouldn't use the same language to Mr. Sullivan's face that he gleefully employs on his blog.

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Good to know, Cicero.  I suspect with SSB, family and school, plus all the pressing issues coming daily to her attention that JA couldn't follow through.  I was disappointed to not hear more from JA because I REALLY wanted her take on things up there.  Your blog, Katie Botkin's blog, Moscow ID and others do a  great job of covering DW/Kirk with information and critical insights, though, so in a sense the important perspectives are available. 

As I've said before, the only thing likely to unseat DW is a sex scandal or financial malfeasance that rises to the level of legal action.  If he's a mandated reporter for child abuse and it could be proven that he covered something up rather than report, he could be indicted.  However, given his teflon history so far.....

That said, his obsession with keeping a lid on everything and an obsession with stifling criticism dissent communication gossip within his flock might mean he needs a mechanism that works to keep bad acts from coming to light or it might be as simple as a personal need to control Every.Single.Thing.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 2/27/2016 at 8:17 AM, Cicero said:

Thanks for clearing that up MoS.

I don't think Julie Anne has been neutralized. She's remained critical of Wilson and Christ Church on her site and twitter. One of the greatest tools that the Wilsons have is that if you do meet them in real life they do act much differently than you'd expect if you've only encountered them online before. if I had to describe DW solely through my personal interactions with him, I'd have to describe him as a jolly, personable man. Take his debate with Andrew Sullivan as an example, DW wouldn't use the same language to Mr. Sullivan's face that he gleefully employs on his blog.

So true. In my admittedly limited experience with the man, he was personable, even thoughtful. My first cognitive dissonance (related to DW, that is) came when I subscribed to Credenda Agenda and couldn't reconcile the snide, smug, self-satisfied, mocking tone of its articles with the "scholarly" man who'd taught at our church and genially socialized with us during his visit to our area.

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