Pedophiles don't change their spots

[SpoonfulOSugar]

Natalie writes about a conversation in Doug's office when she was 19:

..... Shades of Gothard?

Wilson's actions were grossly inappropriate. Reading Natalie's post nauseated me - I can only imagine how she felt in that room.

I have seen some suggestions that she sue. If not her, then perhaps some other victim(s) (some of whom must still be minors) will seek justice for Wilson's pastoral misconduct.

Of course, drawing and quartering is no longer used, but it seems karmicly right.

[Peas n carrots]

I'd like to take a moment from the horrors of the situation to point out how damn pretentious the whole "Christ Church," "Greyfriars," and the other co-opting of Scottish places and terminology is. It's pretty laughable using these names as a way to himself and the institution up as respectable without earning the respect. Hmph

Oi sorry about the last sentence - what a bunch of word salad! I meant to say Doug is co-opting the terminology as a way to make his institution seem more credible.

[onlyme]

I'd like to take a moment from the horrors of the situation to point out how damn pretentious the whole "Christ Church," "Greyfriars," and the other co-opting of Scottish places and terminology is. It's pretty laughable using these names as a way to himself and the institution up as respectable without earning the respect. Hmph

Yes indeed pretentious and also a handy way of not feeling like you are like those other wishy washy American churches, but the stern old good stuff.

But I think really he was jealous that Doug Phillips could carry off all that cosplay and he couldn't stuff his gut into a costume so that was the best he could do.

[MamaJunebug]

Lurved ones, please visit kbotkin.com, not only for an incisive essay by Katie Botkin but for the replies from Wilson disciples. Truly gut wrenching, the way one calling itself "laurenjess" references the victims' need for forgiveness.

no no no no no

spiritualsoundingboard.com is also keeping the spotlights on the Wilson travesties, and thewartburgwatch.com does the same. However, those blogs are concerned with all kinds of abuse and rotten theology. When Katie B posts about something other than philosophy or travel, it's almost always about Wilson.

Apparently the coffee shop that Natalie Rose's mother - who divorced Natalie's father when a Wilson clergy called the man a heretic for joining the Orthodox Christian church - apparently that coffee shop is quite a nice business, if a photo from one of the blogs is actually of it. Not a place with mismatched chairs and tables in a repurposed corner store front. IOW, Natalie Rose's mother's gots some income, and I'm sure that makes her valuable to Wilson.

There's culpability in every Christian denomination, and arrogant pastors, and the church of my youth is no exception -- but I'm going to try to get some info from whatever conservative Lutherans are in and around Moscow, Idaho, just to find out how the Wilson bunch is perceived there by people in established, mainline churches. Were I in Moscow, I'd be pretty steamed to know that a pedophile is on the loose thanks to the bloviations of a big fat egotist with pretensions of Gaelic glory!

[Marian the Librarian]

Lurved ones, please visit kbotkin.com, not only for an incisive essay by Katie Botkin but for the replies from Wilson disciples. Truly gut wrenching, the way one calling itself "laurenjess" references the victims' need for forgiveness.

no no no no no

spiritualsoundingboard.com is also keeping the spotlights on the Wilson travesties, and thewartburgwatch.com does the same. However, those blogs are concerned with all kinds of abuse and rotten theology. When Katie B posts about something other than philosophy or travel, it's almost always about Wilson.

Apparently the coffee shop that Natalie Rose's mother - who divorced Natalie's father when a Wilson clergy called the man a heretic for joining the Orthodox Christian church - apparently that coffee shop is quite a nice business, if a photo from one of the blogs is actually of it. Not a place with mismatched chairs and tables in a repurposed corner store front. IOW, Natalie Rose's mother's gots some income, and I'm sure that makes her valuable to Wilson.

There's culpability in every Christian denomination, and arrogant pastors, and the church of my youth is no exception -- but I'm going to try to get some info from whatever conservative Lutherans are in and around Moscow, Idaho, just to find out how the Wilson bunch is perceived there by people in established, mainline churches. Were I in Moscow, I'd be pretty steamed to know that a pedophile is on the loose thanks to the bloviations of a big fat egotist with pretensions of Gaelic glory!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Couldn't have said it better myself!

I've been following Katie's blog only sporadically - limited time these days, and my disgust meter hits "tilt" pretty quickly - bless her for persevering in what must surely be an uncomfortable position. My fondest wish is that mainstream media swoop down on Moscow, Idaho and blow the lid off of Doug Wilson's sick, dysfunctional little empire. I'm lookin' at you, New York Times.

[onlyme]

In which Doug Wilson waxes eloquent on travesty that the country is increasingly united under the idea that you actually ought to be nice to other people in public, and that no, we don't want to go back to a sort of society where one has to check the signs on the front door to make sure "their kind" is served there.

AND NOT ONLY THAT

Ladies and gents- please step over to the movie promotional page and enter to win a "Free Speech Apocalypse" preparedness kit which includes a .38 semiauto handgun.

Seriously. It just gets crazier and crazier.

On another note, isn't Katie wonderful!

[DomWackTroll]

Doug's new music video! Shot in a dusty piano warehouse because authenticity!

http://dougwils.com/s15-soaring-to-artistic-heights/the-day-marriage-fell-ichabod.html

For people who hate hipsters so much, his and Tim Bayly's bands sure imitate them a lot. 

[Howl]

I knew I never should have clicked, but did I click anyway?  I think you (and I) know the answer.  Let me save you from endless click regret.  DON'T GO THERE.  It is truly awful and cringe worthy.  On the other hand, if you want to watch a middle-aged man make you cringe in embarrassment, go there now.  

Many thanks and a tip o' the hat to the first commenter: 
"Anything worth doing is worth doing badly."

 

[RosyDaisy]

Nope, ain't gonna click on the link. I've already had one bad vertigo attack today.

 

 

 

 

[Peas n carrots]

I knew I never should have clicked, but did I click anyway?  I think you (and I) know the answer.  Let me save you from endless click regret.  DON'T GO THERE.  It is truly awful and cringe worthy.  On the other hand, if you want to watch a middle-aged man make you cringe in embarrassment, go there now[b\].  

Many thanks and a tip o' the hat to the first commenter: 

"Anything worth doing is worth doing badly."

 

After you said that I had to watch immediately LOL. I was cracking up - how self aggrandizing can a person possibly be? What next - Doug Wilson school of interpretive dance? I hope he doesn't try to emulate Annie Sprinkle...

[DomWackTroll]

I wonder if the woman who's wailing like a banshee is supposed to represent feminism? 

[MamaJunebug]

Katie Botkin (My Hero) recently posted at http://kbotkin.com, referring to the story of Emeth Hesed, who escaped patriarchal tyranny in pagan (her word) cultures, only to find herself again in its grip as a Christian in Wilson's nasty church system. 

http://emethhesed.com/2011/06/25/heads-of-household-meetings-wives-not-welcome/ 

I'd write more but that "w" word looms.  Sigh.

 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

I've been reading off and on on Doug's blog.  It requires a hazmat suit to wade through, but I just found this gem:

If someone ever gets to the position where shutting up would advance his cause greatly, then he should shut up.

Doug should take his own advice.  If he is not going to apologize and recognize his transgressions, he would be better suited to shut up.

But he's too arrogant and foolish to do so . . . . .

Doug blathers about himself again 

[MamaJunebug]

Mods, if I'm doing wrong by quoting from kbotkin.com's comments section, of course delete this.  But please, no prayer closet!  Humble thanks.

This hasn't been getting much attention, and I'd like to keep it in the general consciousness if possible.  Recently a Wilson loyalist has been trolling Katie Botkin's site, prompting a version of the nail-polish maneuver over there (bravas & bravos!).  One commenter, "Mara," summed up the actual point of the story so well.

 

Mara writes,

Doug Wilson sided with a sexual predator against his victim thus abusing her all over again.
Doug Wilson broke up a family over this case by blaming the father rather than admit his mistakes.
Doug Wilson threatens to release Natalie’s journals she wrote while going through the abuse.
Doug Wilson slanders the father of the victim saying he’s just as bad as the sexual predator that Wilson has defended.

Mara succinctly describes the troll's diversionary tactics, which of course have included walls of Bible text:

Instead of dealing with any of that, you are all concerned about whether Katie is an abuse expert, whether I’m humble (your comment last night at 7:45 is one hot mess), and whether Melody is the one misapplying the Word.

You want me to state clearly how you are misapplying the Word?
Okay, here you go.
You are using it to confuse, deflect, distract, and muddy the waters.
You are trying to get people off of the gross malpractice of Doug Wilson against a child (now grown) and her family.
You are trying to point people away from how Doug Wilson continues to try to bully them, accuse them, threaten them, all the while ignoring his own sins that just keep multiplying. He’s the one who needs teaching, rebuking, correcting. He’s the one who needs to stop slandering. But you aren’t using the scripture correctly towards him. You are turning it on the ones who are declaring the truth, exposing his dark deeds to the light.

[onlyme]

This may be falling off the radar here, but there is still a lot going on in the CREC world with meetings, infighting, nauseating facebook posts, good facebook posts, etc. I don't think Doug gets as much interest here because his kids are grown and he's just soooooooooooo gross. But I'm still hoping for some wider exposure. His blog post "slut walks" almost indicates that he's finding the whole thing kind of fun, so I don't think my hope is without basis. 

[nickelodeon]

Uhhhhggg, I can't bear to look at what he's been posting, he is so hideous and awful. How bad is it?!

[older than allosaurs]

Uhhhhggg, I can't bear to look at what he's been posting, he is so hideous and awful. How bad is it?!

3 basic styles: passive aggressive, aggressive aggressive, self-pitying braggadocio. And man does he churn them out. Hard to figure when he has time for all the pastoral counseling he talks about.

[Howl]

Mama JuneBug, thanks for keeping this in the foreground.  I've been keeping up through Katie Botkin and a few other places.  I think the troll you are referring to posts as JFS. JFS is noxious and obfuscating.   JFS keeps referring to Lundy Bancroft (a guy) as the founder and leader of a cult. Bear with me, and I’ll "try" to tie up JFS, patriarchy & the Men’s Rights Movement, with a detour by pedophilia and faux repentance.

I found my way to an excellent blog post [April Kelsey, below] discussing this general issue of ministering to pedophiles and sure enough, JFS popped up there in the comments section, spouting the same crap s/he did on Katie's blog with the same bizarre Lundy Bancroft as cult leader angle.

“The Pedophile’s Deception”   (posted by April Kelsey on her Revolutionary Faith//Taking Back Christianity blog) is an excellent walk through how pedophiles deceive, what the church’s approach should be to ministering to them, and the issue of repentance. Highly recommended if you are following the general topic, and the Stephen Sitler/Jamin Wight/CREC issue.  

revolfaith.com/2015/10/12/the-pedophiles-deception/

Please go there now and read this, because it is highly relevant to the CREC issue.  

I was curious about the Lundy Bancroft angle, so I looked him up on the google.  Lundy Bancroft has written extensively about domestic violence (DV), is widely considered an expert on the topic and has written a book titled "Why Does He Do That: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men”.   He is not a Christian and does not have advanced degrees, but apparently is spot on in dealing with DV, and works with women and the children who have been abused and witnessed the abuse of their mothers.

I’m reading between the lines here and extrapolating that Lundy Bancroft is considered a cult leader because he is not writing about DV from a Christian, KJV only perspective.  In addition, I ran across a fun web site called We Hunted the Mammoth (the new misogyny tracked and mocked!)

Yes, a snark site about Men’s Rights Activists, Men Going Their Own Way, and Men’s Rights Movement!  Anyway, We Hunted the Mammoth has a post titled  “Domestic violence expert Lundy Bancroft: Men’s Rights philosophies make angry and controlling men even worse.”

http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/05/06/domestic-violence-expert-lundy-bancroft-mens-rights-philosophies-make-angry-and-controlling-men-even-worse

So, based on this, I’m going to make a bit of a leap here about JFS and some things that he has linked to in his comments on various blogs.

First, JFS hates Lundy Bancroft because he does not address domestic violence through the lens of the King James bible only, Christian perspective, and wifely submission.  Second (and here’s my big “leap of faith”, I suspect JFS thinks Lundy Bancroft makes patriarchal males look bad, and that’s why s/he is on an anti Bancroft crusade.  Here’s is the first thing on Lundy Bancroft’s web site:

 

Training professionals on best practices for intervening with male perpetrators of violence against women, toward the goal of promoting accountability and requiring change.

I’ve not read anything from a patriarchal viewpoint holding men accountable  when they have stepped over the line into abuse, or even where that line is.  Yes, yes, they are incessantly required to be godly men, but really, is there any emphasis on NOT being angry and controlling?  The very nature of patriarchy requires a man to be in control of his wife and children and for women and children to SUBMIT to that control.   

Patriarchy requires a woman to submit to everything and Lundy Bancroft’s approach supports women in how to deal with abuse and get healthy.  Really, I’m not seeing a lot of middle ground here. And anyway, how much distance is there really between Men’s Rights Activists and Patriarchy?  They are the kissin cousins of misogyny.

I can’t quite get a handle on JFS and the topic child molestation, but again, I think in his/her mind, there is some mega-squicy connection relating to patriarchy/repentance/forgiveness/godly penis-holder status and who-are-women-to-be-writing-about-this-anyway.  The last is because JFS has shown up in the comments of at least two women bloggers writing critically about the issue of repentance/forgiveness and the treatment of pedophiles by the church.   

Also, sorry about the formatting.  Is there a way to re-size font on this new forum format?
 

[MamaJunebug]

Olderthanallosaurs, thanks for taking the hit by looking at it. Onlyme and Howl, thanks to your responses I will be girding my loins - with anti-nausea remedies - and taking a look at Wilson's foulness later today. 

He is SO personally repulsive that I don't see him getting the adoring hordes of followers that Doug Phillips Is A Rapey Tool did, but malevolent misogynist pseudo-intellectuals have to lurv his bloviated writing style and risk being influenced by him.

[older than allosaurs]

JFS also posts as Jason Springer. He gives some background in a couple of public blog responses here: https://thenewblogproject.wordpress.com/2015/09/10/letter-to-a-brother-in-christ/comment-page-1/

He attended University of Idaho, so may have a Kirk connection from his time there. He has a personal beef with Lundy Bancroft due to an abuse accusation he feels was based on Bancroft's ideas and influence.

I followed JFS's citations for awhile, because I found Bancroft's book "Why Does He Do That?" very helpful in sorting out my own experience with an angry, gas-lighting narcissist, and I wondered about the whole "cult leader" thing.

 

[hoipolloi]

Katie Botkin's latest, excellent as usual: http://kbotkin.com/2015/11/12/fact-checking-what-doug-told-the-church/

[Howl]

JFS also posts as Jason Springer. He gives some background in a couple of public blog responses here: https://thenewblogproject.wordpress.com/2015/09/10/letter-to-a-brother-in-christ/comment-page-1/

He attended University of Idaho, so may have a Kirk connection from his time there. He has a personal beef with Lundy Bancroft due to an abuse accusation he feels was based on Bancroft's ideas and influence.

I followed JFS's citations for awhile, because I found Bancroft's book "Why Does He Do That?" very helpful in sorting out my own experience with an angry, gas-lighting narcissist, and I wondered about the whole "cult leader" thing.

 

Thanks for that info on JFS/Jason Springer.   The letter to a brother in christ was excellent, JFS' response less so.  Just idle speculation, I wonder if his abuse allegation was related to physical discipline or a general patriarchal approach to marriage and child rearing. 

[Palimpsest]

Thanks to everyone updating this thread.  I haven't had time to keep up with it and Doug Wilson makes me nauseous.

Re. Lundy Bancroft - he's the real thing, advanced degrees or not.  He co-founded Emerge way back when (80s?) and has done excellent work on DV.  Therefore, he is hated by Men's rights groups and serial abusers who do their best to discredit him.

[onlyme]

Personally, I am truly amazed. I was in the CREC for 10 years. (Not Doug's church) I confess, I did turn a blind eye to some things I should have paid more attention to. (I've repented since.) The sympathy for the confederates I figured was a kind of rebellious anti-federal government quirk. I didn't agree with it, but I should have regarded that as more of a warning than I did. But our leadership wasn't all that into it, just some of the families.  I didn't even read the stuff Doug said about slavery because I always kind of saw him as an over blown wind bag. I kept my head down and focused on the things I thought were worthwhile. I didn't even KNOW about the Wight/Sitler cases until I came here. But these things have blown up so much nobody in the CREC can really say they don't know anything about this. Everybody is arguing. Churches all over are having special meetings, bossing people about their facebook posts, preaching sermons, etc. I see people I used to think I knew defending him all over the place and it turns my stomach. I guess I never really did know them. 

 

But the women are the worst. I don't get it. You're a mother, you have daughters, have you completely turned off all compassion? 

 

The inquiry is a complete joke. The head of it has coauthored books with Wilson. A book on justice, no less. 

[sawasdee]

Personally, I am truly amazed. I was in the CREC for 10 years. (Not Doug's church) I confess, I did turn a blind eye to some things I should have paid more attention to. (I've repented since.) The sympathy for the confederates I figured was a kind of rebellious anti-federal government quirk. I didn't agree with it, but I should have regarded that as more of a warning than I did. But our leadership wasn't all that into it, just some of the families.  I didn't even read the stuff Doug said about slavery because I always kind of saw him as an over blown wind bag. I kept my head down and focused on the things I thought were worthwhile. I didn't even KNOW about the Wight/Sitler cases until I came here. But these things have blown up so much nobody in the CREC can really say they don't know anything about this. Everybody is arguing. Churches all over are having special meetings, bossing people about their facebook posts, preaching sermons, etc. I see people I used to think I knew defending him all over the place and it turns my stomach. I guess I never really did know them. 

 

But the women are the worst. I don't get it. You're a mother, you have daughters, have you completely turned off all compassion? 

 

The inquiry is a complete joke. The head of it has coauthored books with Wilson. A book on justice, no less. 

Go,Girl! Talk about waking up!