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Michael (Bates) Keilen Bump Watch


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On 3/10/2016 at 1:21 AM, amendgitan said:

I cringe every time I hear that one of these women have become pregnant. It surprises me that so many on this snark site seem excited and vested in their pregnancies and fertility. Frankly, I view each of their pregnancies, as young women who are barely married, as nothing but tragedies. 

Getting pregnant before they've gotten to know their husbands, or their sexuality, their own bodies even,  is horrible. Becoming pregnant before they've had a minute of independence, privacy, autonomy and freedom from endless child rearing an housekeeping is profoundly sad. 

These poor girls don't even get to enjoy having a nice, young body for long before they become bloated with the first of endless pregnancies that cement their place as second class citizens whose worth is determined by their fertility. 

Early, young pregnancies ensure that these women cannot escape the patriarchal nightmare that is life in the IFB sect without exteme difficulty. The term barefoot and pregnant is understood and reviled by feminists because early and repeated pregnancies of uneducated or undereducated young women takes away their choice. Which is why the patriarchy works so hard to make it a cultural norm. 

Uncontrolled pregnancy/the lack of birth control or the right to decide for oneself (outside of familial, religious or other cultural constraints) what happens to ones body, simply entraps women. Which is why so many women have  worked so hard to ensure that we have choice when it comes to our fertility and our bodies. And without a meaningful period of autonomy and independence, women who have been raised since infancy in such closed, male dominated cultural groups, utterly lack true choice. 

No matter how cute their babies are, how much they think they want it, how hard they try to have one or how supportive and sweet their husbands may seem, I'm sorry for each one of these women, every time I hear that one of them "got knocked up" so young. And so soon. 

To me, it is a tragedy. Not a blessing. Not a joy. 

+1000

On 3/26/2016 at 6:40 PM, Mela99 said:

I can't hate on Michaela if she's struggling or sad that she's not pregnant yet. It hurts. A lot. 

I don't see anybody hating on her.

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Let's say there are no fertility issues preventing them from getting pregnant right now: What would be the point of them taking measures to delay pregnancy for Michael to finish school when once she gets pregnant, she will not use her degree?

If there is any pregnancy prevention going on it'd be David Waller - Sorry - Brandon Keilen - doing the preventing.

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I agree that any pregnancy prevention would be instigated by Brandon, but I can't imagine Michaella agreeing with that. 

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18 minutes ago, Graceshepard said:

I agree that any pregnancy prevention would be instigated by Brandon, but I can't imagine Michaella agreeing with that. 

This.

Michaella is fundie 100%, plus she seems to really like kids, and she's not extremely young, so I don't see she agreeing with birth control. I'm sure she's praying for a baby.

In any case, I suppose Bates girls can get birth control after some kids. But not at the beginning of the marriage. When they marry, they have to get prehnant the sooner the better, it's like a commandment for them.

 

I think Erin was trying to control (as they were sooo surprised by the pregnancy) an maybe Alyssa will eventually control. And most probably, the young girls won't be quiverful. But Michaella? I'd be shocked if she controlled.

I can See Zach wanting to control but Whitney seems to need a quiver to full her heart, it's not strange for people with a lonely or sad childhood.

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2 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

This.

Michaella is fundie 100%, plus she seems to really like kids, and she's not extremely young, so I don't see she agreeing with birth control. I'm sure she's praying for a baby.

In any case, I suppose Bates girls can get birth control after some kids. But not at the beginning of the marriage. When they marry, they have to get prehnant the sooner the better, it's like a commandment for them.

 

I think Erin was trying to control (as they were sooo surprised by the pregnancy) an maybe Alyssa will eventually control. And most probably, the young girls won't be quiverful. But Michaella? I'd be shocked if she controlled.

I can See Zach wanting to control but Whitney seems to need a quiver to full her heart, it's not strange for people with a lonely or sad childhood.

I'm going to give all of the Bates offspring the benefit of the doubt for a few years. My aunt isn't Fundy, but she wanted her children to be close. She had two 15 months apart (and started within two years of marriage), but no more. My best friend had four- two thirteen months apart, then a 2-3 year break, then two more about 17 months apart. I'm sure I'm probably having too much hope, just know of some non Fundy families who have purposeful short spacing between children. Who knows how any of the families will evolve in the second generation over the next 10-20 years.

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2 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

 

I think Erin was trying to control (as they were sooo surprised by the pregnancy) an maybe Alyssa will eventually control. And most probably, the young girls won't be quiverful. But Michaella? I'd be shocked if she controlled.

I can See Zach wanting to control but Whitney seems to need a quiver to full her heart, it's not strange for people with a lonely or sad childhood.

Alyssa's already confirmed that she wants around 6 kids and John backed her up by saying he wants however many children she wants.

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56 minutes ago, Graceshepard said:

Alyssa's already confirmed that she wants around 6 kids and John backed her up by saying he wants however many children she wants.

John's answer strikes me as pretty much just the nicer version of what Gil and JimBob have said in the past - that they leave the decision on having more kids up to their wives. Totally possible he genuinely meant that Alyssa could decide, but it's also possible he wasn't being genuine too. I just think we should proceed with caution and not jump to conclusions about anything.

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2 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

John's answer strikes me as pretty much just the nicer version of what Gil and JimBob have said in the past - that they leave the decision on having more kids up to their wives. Totally possible he genuinely meant that Alyssa could decide, but it's also possible he wasn't being genuine too. I just think we should proceed with caution and not jump to conclusions about anything.

I think John's siblings are mostly not quiverful so it wouldn't surprise me if he followed suit  You're right that we really can't know right now.  

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2 minutes ago, justmy2cents said:

I think John's siblings are mostly not quiverful so it wouldn't surprise me if he followed suit  You're right that we really can't know right now.  

I just don't want anyone getting their hopes up. That happened big time when Jill Dill married Derick - the reaction to her doing exactly what she was raised to do was... Uh... Not pretty to say the least. Lol!

From what I've heard and read, you don't really have to be Quiverfull to be part of IBLP. The Duggars and Bates parents are, but others might not be.

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1 minute ago, VelociRapture said:

I just don't want anyone getting their hopes up. That happened big time when Jill Dill married Derick - the reaction to her doing exactly what she was raised to do was... Uh... Not pretty to say the least. Lol!

From what I've heard and read, you don't really have to be Quiverfull to be part of IBLP. The Duggars and Bates parents are, but others might not be.

Didn't know that about IBLP. I didn't mean to imply that they were leaving fundamentalism behind but hopefully if they have less kids their children can grow up with more opportunities and a somewhat better education. 

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2 hours ago, Duggadict said:

for the latest pictures I speculate a baby coming...

 

I just browsed her instagram to see what pictures you were talking about and saw in her post 1 week ago (pic of her and brandon) she responded to a comment with "I am not pregnant at this time." I don't think she would lie. When Jessa Duggar was asked that early in her pregnancy she deflected with "We have no news to share at this time." Michael specifically said no baby so I'm not seeing what you're seeing here. 

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I mentioned this in the general Bates thread, but her being the only one to go to an accredited college I find fascinating. Some have mentioned her waiting until she finishes her degree. I don't think this is the case. No one seems to ask about her studies and it's hardly mentioned. Even if all the classes are done online it is a departure from the rest of her siblings. The classes she takes are bound to have required discussion activities done online. She also seems close to Zach and Zach is another one who has done small things out of the mold. From what we see she loves children and I can only imagine the stress of strangers asking pointed questions about her reproduction status.


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I am not a fan of husbands saying they want however many children the wife wants.

Of course the woman should get the ultimate say in how many children she carries, but this "I want as many as Alyssa wants" BS, to me, just shows that the men in this culture really don't care about their children at all. I'd honestly think it would be much better if Jom Bob, for example, had said "Michelle and I both wanted as many kids as possible" than his stupid "I always left the decision up to Michelle." HELLO, they're your kids too. If you only wanted two, then why the fuck would you have 19?

Now I understand that these fundies just say they leave the decision up to their wives to make themselves look less crazy, but personally, I think it makes them look even worse. Saying "we both wanted at least 10 kids" would actually make them look better in my eyes because at least it gives the impression they actually give a flying fuck about their children. YMMV.

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I don't really have a problem with John saying that, maybe just because I'd rather him say 'as many as Alyssa wants' rather than 'My broodmare wife will have as many children as I say she will ha......I mean, as many as the Lord blesses us with!!!!'

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8 hours ago, infooverload said:

I mentioned this in the general Bates thread, but her being the only one to go to an accredited college I find fascinating. Some have mentioned her waiting until she finishes her degree. I don't think this is the case. No one seems to ask about her studies and it's hardly mentioned. Even if all the classes are done online it is a departure from the rest of her siblings. The classes she takes are bound to have required discussion activities done online. She also seems close to Zach and Zach is another one who has done small things out of the mold. From what we see she loves children and I can only imagine the stress of strangers asking pointed questions about her reproduction status.

 

I think it's not discussed on the show partly because Michael is a private person. With the courtship and wedding she didn't have much of an option in regards to sharing it publicly - the show was already two seasons in and people love watching Fundies plan weddings. She seemed happy enough on camera about it all, so hopefully she wasn't coerced into showing more than she was comfortable with.

Part of it could be for safety reasons, if she was ever on campus too. 

I'm not sure why she got to attend a secular school while others - like Tori and Erin - don't get to. I'm guessing part of it may be choice (some kids may not be comfortable attending a secular school), but I do wonder at times if part of it has to do with Brandon or his family. Probably not, but I am kind of curious if he got a say in it at all.

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3 hours ago, JillyO said:

I am not a fan of husbands saying they want however many children the wife wants.

Of course the woman should get the ultimate say in how many children she carries, but this "I want as many as Alyssa wants" BS, to me, just shows that the men in this culture really don't care about their children at all. I'd honestly think it would be much better if Jom Bob, for example, had said "Michelle and I both wanted as many kids as possible" than his stupid "I always left the decision up to Michelle." HELLO, they're your kids too. If you only wanted two, then why the fuck would you have 19?

Now I understand that these fundies just say they leave the decision up to their wives to make themselves look less crazy, but personally, I think it makes them look even worse. Saying "we both wanted at least 10 kids" would actually make them look better in my eyes because at least it gives the impression they actually give a flying fuck about their children. YMMV.

This is a really good point. I have never met a man that does not have an opinion about how many kids he wants. I have never heard anyone outside of the Duggars and Bateses say that they will leave it up to the wife.

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Ok, folks.  Please put me out of my misery because I obviously lack search skilz and Google-fu.  Which secular college is Michael(la) supposed to be attending?

Oh.  Strike that because I found it.  Yes, knock me over with a feather - a regionally accredited 2 year community college!  I wonder whether she can continue online with whatever course she is doing if they move to Big Sandy with the rest of the IBLP staff.

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7 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I'm not sure why she got to attend a secular school while others - like Tori and Erin - don't get to. I'm guessing part of it may be choice (some kids may not be comfortable attending a secular school), but I do wonder at times if part of it has to do with Brandon or his family. Probably not, but I am kind of curious if he got a say in it at all.

Michael has always crossed me as the practical one. Since she was taking community college classes before she was married, it's possible Michael was thinking about how it would be cheaper to pay for a class or two at a time, rather than pay crown college's private school tuition. Plus, she was working as a nanny, full-time I think. It was likely easier for her to schedule classes and she didn't have to follow crown college's rules about where you work, when you work or how often you work. I don't think she would have given up the nanny job for crown college.

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I don't know her college timeline, but she and Brandon were courting as of 12/2013 (I'm not sure if they were boyfriend/girlfriend before that a la Nathan and Ashley) and based on her age, I would think she was taking classes before the courtship.

Since she seems the most fundie of the older kids, my guess is Crown didn't have the program she wanted or she couldn't do Crown and nanny.

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I always assumed that she got to go to CC because Crown didn't offer whatever it is she is choosing to study, though it could also be she is seen as 'stronger' in her faith and less likely to be led astray. 

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There's also the online element.  Online secular college if you don't have to go there much may be ok. Crown is for people who want the college life in a fundie approved way.

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Crown College is not very near Chicago.  I'm assuming she started community college in Oak Ridge after her marriage and her move to Chicago.

The chronology of of this confuses me.  I may be wrong.

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I know Michael(a) was going to community college before they were engaged.  I'm not sure exactly when she began though.

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