Michael (Bates) Keilen Bump Watch

[Melissa1977]

6 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

At least she seems patient! Just look at her compared to Alyssa. She was married and had a baby by age 20! 

I think Alyssa was willing to scape from the poverty and the noise of that house. So she found a nice guy and I'm sure she didn't want a long courtship! She seemed too young to get married, but look at her: her own home, a way of life she obviously enjoys, not having lots of kids (by now). If you look at the pictures, she's prettier now than when single, and it's not only because she's wearing better clothes, I think she's genuinely happier. I think marrying too young is not a good decision, but in Alyssa's case, I think she did good.

[QuiverDance]

I do sometimes wonder if Alyssa is simply going through a rebellious teenage phase (disgused by marriage and motherhood) and will return to the fold full force in a few years.

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, QuiverDance said:

I do sometimes wonder if Alyssa is simply going through a rebellious teenage phase (disgused by marriage and motherhood) and will return to the fold full force in a few years.

I doubt it. Why would she? What are the negatives of wearing cute clothes you like and not spitting out a baby every year?

[nolongerIFBx]

14 hours ago, crazysnark said:

My sister in law has the disorder and was infertile for 8 years. After going on a no sugar diet she got pregnant with her daughter and remained on the diet but didn't prevent and got pregnant 9 month post partum while breastfeeding. Erin is extremely rare to be so fertile with PAI without a diet change and/or injections. 

I was under the impression that Erin has Antiphospholipid syndrome rather than PAI and she does have to take injections (heparin or Lovenox) daily.

[QuiverDance]

I doubt it, you doubt it, but the pull of the koolaid / family / roots is strong.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

7 minutes ago, QuiverDance said:

I doubt it, you doubt it, but the pull of the koolaid / family / roots is strong.  

But that's the thing. If she is still connected to her family, why would she start wearing frumpers again? They aren't shunning her for showing upper arm and wearing pants. 

[MsSaylor]

What? No way Alyssa would leave her husband and move back in with her parents unless maybe something really catastrophic happened. 

[QuiverDance]

Haven't you known a temporarily rebellious child who later becomes as conservative as she was raised?  That was my only observation.  Never said I was making an absolute prediction.

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, QuiverDance said:

Haven't you known a temporarily rebellious child who later becomes as conservative as she was raised?  That was my only observation.  Never said I was making an absolute prediction.

Yes, but Alyssa is not a rebel. She's just taking a softer side of fundamentalism. And I don't think she's changed clothes or is having less han 10 kids to rebel. She's just doing her own.

[QuiverDance]

Again, I fail to see how my "I sometimes wonder if" should be interpreted as my stating fact.  I was using the term rebel very, very lightly.  I think you're absolutely right.  She's NOT a rebel, but she's testing the waters.  Like a normal person her age.  That was the point.  Anyway.,..

[crazysnark]

8 hours ago, nolongerIFBx said:

I was under the impression that Erin has Antiphospholipid syndrome rather than PAI and she does have to take injections (heparin or Lovenox) daily.

My SIL has both as do a lot of people. In Bringing up Bates Dr Vic says she has 2 clotting factors and one is PAI. He didn't name the other factor but I'm almost poitive it is APS

[TShirtsLongSkirts]

On 06/07/2016 at 10:48 PM, imokit said:

They've said that Erin's clotting issue is genetic, and thus every Bate's girl has a 1 in 4 chance of having it.  In a family with that many girls, odds are that at least one of the other's will have it too.  I'm sure they will be testing every girl pre marriage, when I don't know, but before the wedding certainly.

If they do test before weddings, bearing in mind their whole conviction is to have tons of little arrows, I hate to think that if one of the girls tests positive her fiance might back out and she be relegated to spinster status. I wonder if that's a possibility? 

[sophie10130]

2 hours ago, TShirtsLongSkirts said:

If they do test before weddings, bearing in mind their whole conviction is to have tons of little arrows, I hate to think that if one of the girls tests positive her fiance might back out and she be relegated to spinster status. I wonder if that's a possibility? 

I would think they would test even before then for the sake of having an open and honest courtship. It seems manipulative to hold off on the test until they are courting or engaged just to say "Oh just kidding, all my pregnancies will be super high risk and most doctors will want us to not have a billion kids. You okay with that?"

To me, for the sake of being an honest person and not withholding any information to my very-soon-to-be life partner, I would want to find out and let them know during the "get to know you" phase.

[Diana]

39 minutes ago, sophie10130 said:

I would think they would test even before then for the sake of having an open and honest courtship. It seems manipulative to hold off on the test until they are courting or engaged just to say "Oh just kidding, all my pregnancies will be super high risk and most doctors will want us to not have a billion kids. You okay with that?"

To me, for the sake of being an honest person and not withholding any information to my very-soon-to-be life partner, I would want to find out and let them know during the "get to know you" phase.

However since they say that they are leaded by God in to their courtships and accept everything that Gods gives to them, wouldn't it be hypocritical to go ask science if their future wife would be fertile or not before marriage?

[Bye Bye Birdie]

Haha... guys.. they seriously don't go into such an extreme to test the girls before the marriage! First of all, fertility in those circles is tied to godliness... if you have a lot of babies, you're blessed. If you can't have childre, God's punishing you for something. Nothing to do with science ( at least to them ). 

[QuiverDance]

Maybe the infertility possibility makes them MORE attractive.  It is quite possible that these kids are paying lip service.  I know I did for YEARS.

[justmy2cents]

Do they have insurance that would cover that kind of testing before marriage? They may not have the final say of when they can get tested. 

[elliha]

20 hours ago, QuiverDance said:

Maybe the infertility possibility makes them MORE attractive.  It is quite possible that these kids are paying lip service.  I know I did for YEARS.

I am pretty sure at least some men will see this as a bonus. To be able to know that they can stop after 2-3 kids and still be persevered as godly and not having to be a "rebel" to do so. 

[VelociRapture]

22 hours ago, Bye Bye Birdie said:

Haha... guys.. they seriously don't go into such an extreme to test the girls before the marriage! First of all, fertility in those circles is tied to godliness... if you have a lot of babies, you're blessed. If you can't have childre, God's punishing you for something. Nothing to do with science ( at least to them ). 

The trouble with this reasoning is that it doesn't match up with their beliefs.

If a child was dealing with basic infertility (where they had trouble conceiving at all), then yes that would apply. But Erin was not dealing with that - she had zero issues conceiving a child. It was maintaining the pregnancy that is the issue. Meaning that, according to their beliefs, a life exists that must be maintained and protected - even if it's a simple little blastocyst. They have no issues with using science or medicine in those cases, which is why Erin was tested and is treated during pregnancy in the first place.

I highly doubt that Kelly was lying when she said they would have their other daughters tested. To them (and those that think like them) it's a matter of saving an innocent life - medical intervention is perfectly acceptable in those cases.

[Bye Bye Birdie]

35 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

The trouble with this reasoning is that it doesn't match up with their beliefs.

If a child was dealing with basic infertility (where they had trouble conceiving at all), then yes that would apply. But Erin was not dealing with that - she had zero issues conceiving a child. It was maintaining the pregnancy that is the issue. Meaning that, according to their beliefs, a life exists that must be maintained and protected - even if it's a simple little blastocyst. They have no issues with using science or medicine in those cases, which is why Erin was tested and is treated during pregnancy in the first place.

I highly doubt that Kelly was lying when she said they would have their other daughters tested. To them (and those that think like them) it's a matter of saving an innocent life - medical intervention is perfectly acceptable in those cases.

Oh sorry, I misunderstood the thread then. I thought people were implying that they (ie Bates + other fundies) are randomly testing all the girls pre-marriage for fertility- which I assure you is not happening. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

On July 7, 2016 at 4:36 AM, Melissa1977 said:

I have the feeling that Brandon wasn't very interested in marriage and Kelly did A LOT to push him into courtship and wedding. Of course I can be wrong, but based in their posts and comments, Michael was in love and Kelly did her best to help her. Probably Keilens also helped. I'm not telling he wasn't in love, but I see him as a person who thinks a lot, who goes step by step, who does "the right things" but is not passionate.

Maybe they are infertile (she or he: lots of young men have low sperm quality nowadays), maybe they aren't just luck to get pregnant (6 months is average to get pregnant, but even 1 year is normal), maybe they're avoiding pregnancy (I don't think so, but who really knows). I know they're mega-fundie and having children is mandatory, but if Brandon is so rigid in his plans, maybe he's trying to delay pregnancy since Michael finishes school and they finally move.

I partially agree with your assessment of Brandon. He seems very rigid and hell bent on doing everything "just right" according to fundie beliefs. I think because of how they are raised and the beliefs that are drilled into their heads, Brandon felt he needed to get everything just right before marriage. So he had to go to school, save up some money, and be secure in his life. This is all because these people refuse to use birth control and he knew damn well they could have a baby exactly 9 months after their wedding. So he was going to be ready for that. He Does everything by the Gothard book so there is no way they would even use the pull out and pray method. Michael was the one waiting around because she was ready to get married at 18. All she has to bring to the marriage is a uterus and an ability to keep house. She could cook and clean and take care of kids from a young age. So really all the girls are waiting around. Michaels waiting was just much more obvious because she fell for a guy that wasn't even close to ready to financially support a family.  Of course neither was Ben but his hormones won that battle. Since his brain never really puts up much of a fight anyway....

[VelociRapture]

17 hours ago, Bye Bye Birdie said:

Oh sorry, I misunderstood the thread then. I thought people were implying that they (ie Bates + other fundies) are randomly testing all the girls pre-marriage for fertility- which I assure you is not happening. 

Ah. Gotcha! Yeah, I highly doubt that would happen. I can see the Bateses decoding to do that due to the nature of Erin's clotting problems, but definitely not a Fundie family who didn't have that type of medical issue to deal with.

 

14 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I partially agree with your assessment of Brandon. He seems very rigid and hell bent on doing everything "just right" according to fundie beliefs. I think because of how they are raised and the beliefs that are drilled into their heads, Brandon felt he needed to get everything just right before marriage. So he had to go to school, save up some money, and be secure in his life. This is all because these people refuse to use birth control and he knew damn well they could have a baby exactly 9 months after their wedding. So he was going to be ready for that. He Does everything by the Gothard book so there is no way they would even use the pull out and pray method. Michael was the one waiting around because she was ready to get married at 18. All she has to bring to the marriage is a uterus and an ability to keep house. She could cook and clean and take care of kids from a young age. So really all the girls are waiting around. Michaels waiting was just much more obvious because she fell for a guy that wasn't even close to ready to financially support a family.  Of course neither was Ben but his hormones won that battle. Since his brain never really puts up much of a fight anyway....

I agree with your assessment. I give Brandob some credit for realizing he wasn't quite ready for marriage immediately. My husband had a list of things he wanted to accomplish before he proposed to me as well so he felt ready to support a family... so I might be a bit biased. 

As for Ben and the Duggar husbands - at the very least the guys have some sort of legitimate education to fall back on. Whether they use it or not is another matter entirely, but the possibility is there. I don't know if that's necessarily the case for the Bateses husbands (though, to be fair, they seem to be very hard workers and they are gainfully employed outside the show.) Brandon has a degree, but I'm skeptical about whether it was an actual accredited program. Anything to do with IBLP or Gothard gets immediate side eye from me.

[Coconut Flan]

No, Brandon did not get anything resembling an accredited degree.  He survived a three year Gothard religious education program.