Jana's future

[choralcrusader8613]

17 minutes ago, calimojo said:

Every once in awhile I see someone post here, or DWOP, or even Pickle's page, and they will comment that they live near the Duggars and run into them on occasion.  I just wish that one of these people would be able to get a few minutes alone with Jana and offer her to help her get away.  Even just  give her a phone number to call sometime  when she might be able to lock herself away in the bathroom faking an attack of diarrhea so she can be alone.  ( do you think JB and M require the kids leave their cellphones somewhere when they go to the bathroom?)

They may have it set up so they can see every number that the kids call, plus the text messages (if they weren't in a group chat already). That way, if "harmful influences" come to the kids, they can handle it in a Gothard-approved way.

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, calimojo said:

<snip>

 We all want her to be free, but it doesn't look like that is happening soon.  It is too bad, though because if she could break free, many others would follow.  Jinger and Joy for sure, and Possibly JD, Joe and Josiah. 

<snip>

Every once in awhile I see someone post here, or DWOP, or even Pickle's page, and they will comment that they live near the Duggars and run into them on occasion.  I just wish that one of these people would be able to get a few minutes alone with Jana and offer her to help her get away.  Even just  give her a phone number to call sometime  when she might be able to lock herself away in the bathroom faking an attack of diarrhea so she can be alone.  ( do you think JB and M require the kids leave their cellphones somewhere when they go to the bathroom?)

I don't think that Jana or any of the others would take seriously an offer of "help to escape" from a total stranger.  They have all been taught not to trust outsiders.  And I don't think any of them seriously want to "get away."  They may want things in their lives to be different -- Jana may want to be able to attend concerts or take art lessons at the university, or she may wish she didn't always have to be the babysitter or that she didn't have to go on TV to talk about her private life--but I doubt they connect this desire for some things to be different with the desire to "get out."

If one seriously wants to help some of these girls, one has to befriend them slowly and gradually earn their trust. Someone connected to TLC who saw them regularly could probably do it.  Someone who showed respect and understanding for the Duggar beliefs but at the same time helped Jana or whomever see that some of the things the family does are not biblically "sanctioned" could help her gradually see that there are other ways of being a Christian and that she won't go instantly go to hell if she asks for more in the way of education or social options.

But just handing her a phone number that she can call is not going to help unless she is desperate.  And as you say, her life is more comfortable now than it used to be.

[socalrules]

Honestly, I wouldn't trust anyone that would come up to me saying they wanted to help me get away. It would be foolish to do so. That's one way to get a person to go from one cult to another. I don't think any of them want to get away from their family. Believe it or not, they love their parents and siblings. They want that relationship and there is nothing wrong with that. They may want different things but they aren't looking to escape in the way people seem to hope. I don't think they want to give up their family and friends. It's ridiculous to think that any of them are just going to leave, write a tell-all, blast their parents/fundies in general and suddenly become liberal, democrat, gay, atheists. It is also possible that they do want the lifestyle they grew up in. There is no reason to believe that any of them want the lives we live and that's ok.

People want this grand gesture of change reflecting that the Duggars have left the old world behind, even if it would make them unhappy. For all we know, they truly enjoy the lifestyle but not being in front of the cameras. What we want for them and what would actually make them happy may contradict each other. 

 

[sophie10130]

Isn't it ironic that they wouldn't believe someone who came up to them and handed the a number offering to save them when they do the exact same thing on missions?

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, sophie10130 said:

Isn't it ironic that they wouldn't believe someone who came up to them and handed the a number offering to save them when they do the exact same thing on missions?

Indeed. But you forget that they are spreading the word of JESUS!.

Not to mention that they don't think they need saving and that we do.

[calimojo]

@EmCatlyn and @socalrules,  I agree, being approached by a stranger is unlikely to work, it was just wishful thinking.  On the other hand,  Tontitown is pretty small,  maybe there would be a way if someone happened to randomly run into them often enough that there would be the start of recognition and an acquaintance.  I think I have heard though that when they are in public they stick together and rarely interact with anyone else.  S

[EmCatlyn]

22 minutes ago, calimojo said:

@EmCatlyn and @socalrules,  I agree, being approached by a stranger is unlikely to work, it was just wishful thinking.  On the other hand,  Tontitown is pretty small,  maybe there would be a way if someone happened to randomly run into them often enough that there would be the start of recognition and an acquaintance.  I think I have heard though that when they are in public they stick together and rarely interact with anyone else.  S

It would have to be someone they had regular, non-threatening contact with. Maybe a clerk at a store they frequent who would chat with them about the Bible.  Someone that seems supportive, not just someone they see all the time.  And offering them escape when they don't realize they need to escape wouldn't work.  They have to discover that they want to leave.  

If I thought any of them were likely to find pleasure in reading, I'd  say we could send them books.  But no chance.

[LittleSpouseOnThePrairie]

I almost wonder if they would be offended at someone offering to help escape their family. They are so convinced that how they live is right, that the very notion that they could have better might seem sinful to them.

[socalrules]

As a Catholic, I know there are those out there that don't likes us or believe that we are doing it wrong. If a stranger had come up to me saying they wanted to help me escape from my family and/or Catholicism, I would have thought they were crazy and ignored them. If it was someone who I liked or trusted, I would have cut off contact with them for showing such disrespect. I would be offended. I would not have given it a second thought because it was coming from someone I knew. It would probably put me on guard that the person that approached me has an ulterior motive and not in a positive way. 

I just think that it is difficult to try and "rescue" someone from something you don't like without any knowledge of whether they even see the need or have the desire to be "rescued". I think a lot of this becomes more about what the rescuers want for the Duggars, than what the Duggars themselves want. 

[sophie10130]

What would happen if it came from Amy?

A similar thing as to when Anna's brother contacted her? Where they would just shrug it off as the heathen of the family trying to corrupt them?

So sad. I think if something like that was going to work, they would have to have doubts in their minds to begin with. As someone completely happy with my life and family, I would think that person was crazy. But if I had doubts, even deep down, I think it would make them grow. Even if that person was a complete stranger. Of course, these doubts could be shrugged away, especially if it was someone too worldly, as not being close enough to God.

[EmCatlyn]

14 hours ago, socalrules said:

As a Catholic, I know there are those out there that don't likes us or believe that we are doing it wrong. If a stranger had come up to me saying they wanted to help me escape from my family and/or Catholicism, I would have thought they were crazy and ignored them. If it was someone who I liked or trusted, I would have cut off contact with them for showing such disrespect. I would be offended. I would not have given it a second thought because it was coming from someone I knew. It would probably put me on guard that the person that approached me has an ulterior motive and not in a positive way. 

I just think that it is difficult to try and "rescue" someone from something you don't like without any knowledge of whether they even see the need or have the desire to be "rescued". I think a lot of this becomes more about what the rescuers want for the Duggars, than what the Duggars themselves want. 

I totally agree. That is why I think that the only people who could help them are people they know and trust and who would understand and respect their feelings.  It could not be an "I am going to rescue you" person, even if the person was well-known and trusted.  It would have to be someone who had something in common with one of them and who could occasionally throw out bits of information that might help them reconsider their own beliefs/lives. Clearly someone (TLC folks?) has done this with clothing. (You can be modest without wearing frumpers.).

A fundie-lite person with six kids who is practicing NFP, who got into a conversation about child rearing and marriage with Jana could let fall the idea that not all people are cut out to be quiverful and that you can still serve God's will with a moderate-size family.

 An unmarried woman of around Jana or Jinger's age who is headed to a Christian college to study art or photography, might suggest the possibility that education may fill a need.  

The lady one of them meets at Hobby Lobby, looking at the same design materials,  who in casual conversation tells her that in her plain old Southern Baptist family none of the brothers has molested their sisters and that many good men actually defer to their wives about when to have sex...

A TLC person who encourages one of them to read some blogs by non-Duggar, more mainstream Christians....

These are possible influences that would be non-threatening and might help.

The stranger who tries to convert you away from deeply held beliefs is, at best, ridiculous, at worst, offensive.

Amy isn't trusted. She is defined as the one who is in error. 

 

[calimojo]

Oh my,  I just made a kind of wishful thinking statement when I said that but obviously it first of all, would probably not happen and secondly,  would not be received well.  I totally agree that the better way would be if someone closer to them would gradually introduce some different ideas, but it would have to be done very carefully, because if JB and M found out they  cut  them off at the knees. 

 

I almost hate to say this, but maybe Ben's new interest in Christian Rock and Rap music, and the contacts he might make will lead to some of that.  If Jessa truly honors him as her headship,  she has to allow it.  Of course, I don't trust that Jessa sees him that way and I could totally see her running to JB to rat out Ben and then JB would remind Ben that he is living free in his house and his only source of income is at JB's will.  

I don't see Jessa as being particularly adaptable.  But maybe one of the other Sibs could be influenced. 

[MarblesMom]

On 4/24/2016 at 6:19 PM, socalrules said:

Honestly, I wouldn't trust anyone that would come up to me saying they wanted to help me get away.

I would no more trust anyone trying to change my current life situation than Jana would.  Someone hands me a business card, or a tract, in the Walmart parking lot isn't going to get me moving in any direction.

Jana doesn't realize (from what I can tell) that she is in a "bad place."  Some well - meaning person giving her a business card would be odd, and recycled (if they did that.)

Any of these kids "getting out" will (a) involve them realizing what deep doo doo they are in; (b) WANTING to get out; (c) formulating an escape.

So many comments (not just here) I see involve the hypothesis that the D kids REALIZE they are in doo doo and want out.  As far as I can see, they don't know any other existence - not sure any really want to bolt. 

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, MarblesMom said:

I would no more trust anyone trying to change my current life situation than Jana would.  Someone hands me a business card, or a tract, in the Walmart parking lot isn't going to get me moving in any direction.

Jana doesn't realize (from what I can tell) that she is in a "bad place."  Some well - meaning person giving her a business card would be odd, and recycled (if they did that.)

Any of these kids "getting out" will (a) involve them realizing what deep doo doo they are in; (b) WANTING to get out; (c) formulating an escape.

So many comments (not just here) I see involve the hypothesis that the D kids REALIZE they are in doo doo and want out.  As far as I can see, they don't know any other existence - not sure any really want to bolt. 

I think that if any of the 18 and over kidults wanted to, they could get out.  They would have to plan it, but they are not in chains. And they do have contacts outside the cult. (Anna's brother and sister come to mind.   And Joseph may have met a fundy lite person or two at Crown College.  And there is cousin Amy...) 

Jana or Jinger or any of the others may dislike some things in their lives, but who doesn't?  They don't see how they have cheated of a normal life. Until they do, they will havd no motivation to leave.

 

 

[Apricot]

I suppose as worldy people we obviously think they would want to get out.  There is so much more out there than what they know, but they have absolutely no idea what they're missing out on.  Perhaps Jana is completely satisfied in looking after her siblings and really is waiting for a prince charming to come along so she too can have eleventy children. 

[Ungodly Grandma]

On 8/8/2015 at 7:49 AM, DeFrauder said:

 

They yanked my uterus out many years ago and took the fibroids with it. I felt better immediately.

Menopause was the best thing that happened to me in years. Fibroids shrunk/went away? and the awful 

mean red PMS feeling stopped. And I could wear white any time I wanted!

[scribble]

On 4/26/2016 at 1:45 AM, MarblesMom said:

I would no more trust anyone trying to change my current life situation than Jana would.  Someone hands me a business card, or a tract, in the Walmart parking lot isn't going to get me moving in any direction.

Me neither. But your post got me thinking.... the Duggars actually DO believe that tracts will bring people to Jesus, right? And if so, might a tract given to the right kiddult actually spark some critical thinking about their lifestyle.

 

(I'm in no way suggesting that someone should give them a tract of any kind.... just thinking out loud, really, about the fact they seem to think they have some impact on others.)

[Purrl]

I honestly hope that when the time comes and Jana does get married all we see is a TH at the end of a program (or a short article in a magazine) stating, "We want to congratulate Jana on her recent marriage to --". And then a stream of snapshots. Keep it private and personal, just like she seems to be. No huge ceremony, no TLC filming, just Jinger's photos and a simple videographer.

[19 cats and counting]

On 4/24/2016 at 3:57 PM, calimojo said:

Every once in awhile I see someone post here, or DWOP, or even Pickle's page, and they will comment that they live near the Duggars and run into them on occasion.  I just wish that one of these people would be able to get a few minutes alone with Jana and offer her to help her get away.  Even just  give her a phone number to call sometime  when she might be able to lock herself away in the bathroom faking an attack of diarrhea so she can be alone.  ( do you think JB and M require the kids leave their cellphones somewhere when they go to the bathroom?)

Even if she got the number, it won't happen.  

Remember her SIL rejected an offer from her own brother to get away at a time she realized (along with the rest of the world) that her husband was cheating on her.  

She's not leaving the cult.  Her friends include Michael Bates Keilen and Priscilla Waller.  If she doesn't marry, I imagine she'll end up like Tabitha Paine and end up homeschooling another mega family.

[AnnaRuk09]

1 hour ago, Purrl said:

I honestly hope that when the time comes and Jana does get married all we see is a TH at the end of a program (or a short article in a magazine) stating, "We want to congratulate Jana on her recent marriage to --". And then a stream of snapshots. Keep it private and personal, just like she seems to be. No huge ceremony, no TLC filming, just Jinger's photos and a simple videographer.

That's why I like Jana. She's quiet, reserved and a private person who seems that would break away from the whole TLC nonsense and the craze of the media. She is the one that will live a life of quietness with her family. And although she will never depart from her parent's teachings and will most likely continue the teachings of the Duggar fundie dynasty, based on how she acts, I can see her living a simple private life with her prince charming.

[19 cats and counting]

1 hour ago, Purrl said:

I honestly hope that when the time comes and Jana does get married all we see is a TH at the end of a program (or a short article in a magazine) stating, "We want to congratulate Jana on her recent marriage to --". And then a stream of snapshots. Keep it private and personal, just like she seems to be. No huge ceremony, no TLC filming, just Jinger's photos and a simple videographer.

One problem-- Jim Bob.  He does not pay for his daughters' weddings with cold hard cash, he 'pays' for them by having it filmed, then selling the photos to People magazine.

[tabitha2]

Nice thought but from all we know about Jim Bob he is only going to approve a suiter for any of children who he can easily get to kow tow to his wishes as the current three do and Jana will almost certainly submit to her husbands wishes. 

[Toothfairy]

It's going to take years for Jana to realize that her lifestyle isn't normal. It's normal to her right now because she was brainwashed into this. You can't just let go of that. She needs to do something outside the home or be around unworldly people to start questioning her beliefs. Wonder if the Duggar kids question their beliefs when the show started. The crew members aren't fundie

[Trynn]

Menopause was the best thing that happened to me in years. Fibroids shrunk/went away? and the awful 

mean red PMS feeling stopped. And I could wear white any time I wanted!

I've been counting down the days till menopause since I got my first period. February of 2000. I hope it happens soon. Alas, I'm only 27 and probably have another 20 years to go :'(

[EmCatlyn]

3 hours ago, scribble said:

Me neither. But your post got me thinking.... the Duggars actually DO believe that tracts will bring people to Jesus, right? And if so, might a tract given to the right kiddult actually spark some critical thinking about their lifestyle.

(I'm in no way suggesting that someone should give them a tract of any kind.... just thinking out loud, really, about the fact they seem to think they have some impact on others.)

Actually I amuse myself sometimes trying to envision a tract that would work with some of these young people.   

The real problem is that they are convinced that their ideas are right and everyone else is wrong. So they won't read a tract with the open mind that they expect from those who need saving.