Josh Duggar Admits to Molestation Rumors- Part 3

[polecat]

I get that, but only for us as spectators to their lives. Nothing has changed for the Duggars. As a victim myself of childhood molestation, I can say it very rarely comes to mind and hardly ever motivates my daily life.

Im rather bothered by the notion that all of the girls and their actions have been reduced to "you are doing this because you were molested as a child." They can have personality traits and thoughts that don't have to do with their abuse.

I think in a normal family in which the abuse was properly handled (or at least not shoved under a rug) and other relationships were relatively healthy or stable, sexual abuse doesn't need to overshadow anyone's life. But speaking as someone who grew up in a family much like the Duggars (except without all the kdis) and as someone who was sexually abused, physically abused and emotionally abused and didn't get any help, I can honestly say that that abuse has changed me. I react in ways I cannot always control, and I struggle with inappropriate responses to fairly benign things. I have ptsd. Do the Duggar girls struggle with similar issues? It's entirely possible. They were beaten with a rod, I have no doubts they were emotionally and spiritually manipulated if not abused, and now we know they were sexually abused. That does not need to inform one's every behavior, but it will shape/change a person.

But I also agree with the last sentence: Of course they can have personality traits and thoughts independent of the abuse. I think there's a fine line between identifying yourself with the abuse and acknowledging that the abuse affected you (if that makes sense).

[IrishCarrie]

Okay this is just ridiculous. You're basically saying that it's wrong to assume that your newborn son is going to be anything less than a sexual abuser.

They live in a patriarchal society. Hell we live in a patriarchal society. Older brothers in both our culture and there's are supposed to be the protectors and the leaders. They're supposed to be the ones everyone else in the family looks up to. That's what Derick was talking about.

Just because Josh abused instead of protected, just because he provided an example one should never follow, it doesn't mean that Israel will be an abusive brother. And Derick shouldn't have to act like Israel would be anything like his uncle.

Not at all what I meant - we've all agreed that the Duggars knew this storm was on its way - I'm not convinced that anyone told Derrick.

And here's an idea. Maybe make your point without telling other people that they're "ridiculous" for what they think. Snark is fine; demeaning others opinions, not so much.

[SpoonfulOSugar]

So, just to recap.

Unfortunately, this is past the statute of limitations on this crime, nothing can be done.

Here is where it gets a little unclear. Despite the fact that JB and M admit there was no professional counseling, there is no investigation by child authorities, nor is there any attempt to actually give any counseling.

9 years later, this is leaked in a tabloid. Josh makes a statement, calls it a teenage mistake, nobody mentions the fact that his victims were his sisters, he apologizes and he resigns from the 'Family Values' organization where he repeatedly made statements that gays were dangerous to children in the family.

The drivers of the Duggar gravy train (TLC) think they will continue this show, but without Josh appearing. They have currently pulled the show from their lineup indefinitely. It is on summer hiatus anyway, so no new episodes are scheduled to air. All reruns have been stopped.

(if I've missed anything, do point it out.)

At the end of the police report, it indicates that the case was referred to CPS and the district attorney's office. Somewhere I have read that if there are records from that, they are sealed. I think I also read that a reporter saw a CPS court record at one point (sitting out on a table in a pile of files) but didn't make the connection.

[polecat]

Guinn Seewald reposted Huckabee's statement on Facebook. :( So much for Jessa getting the type of support she needs from her in laws.

How does she justify that? She's choosing a molester over her own daughter-in-law. There is no neutral ground here!

[lascuba]

I think religion certainly affects how these situations are handled, but I think it's really important to remember that this goes way beyond religion. If you know a dozen children, you know some children that are being abused, most likely by a relative. The Duggars could be atheist scientists, and chances are still good that they wouldn't have properly reported Josh to the authorities. An outsider abusing their daughters? Absolutely. But their own son...proper punishment would likely never have been on the table for them unless they were forced into it. People are very reluctant to deal with abusive loved ones, they tend to rationalize or diminish an abuser's actions. That's why abusers thrive pretty much everywhere...it's really hard for people to acknowledge that someone they love is monster.

[Punchi]

Main details in the report: 4 of 5 victims are children of JB and M. 5th is unknown, resided in Fayetteville in 2006. The sister who said she wasn't abused was pursuing her GED.

After the first interview, JB lawyered up and refused any further contact with the police.

Also, one of the children admits that they are beaten with a rod. THIS IS NOT INVESTIGATED EITHER.

Unfortunately, this is past the statute of limitations on this crime, nothing can be done.

Here is where it gets a little unclear. Despite the fact that JB and M admit there was no professional counseling, there is no investigation by child authorities, nor is there any attempt to actually give any counseling.

9 years later, this is leaked in a tabloid. Josh makes a statement, calls it a teenage mistake, nobody mentions the fact that his victims were his sisters, he apologizes and he resigns from the 'Family Values' organization where he repeatedly made statements that gays were dangerous to children in the family.

The drivers of the Duggar gravy train (TLC) think they will continue this show, but without Josh appearing. They have currently pulled the show from their lineup indefinitely. It is on summer hiatus anyway, so no new episodes are scheduled to air. All reruns have been stopped.

(if I've missed anything, do point it out.)

This is my first post, but i have been reading the forum for months. I think that Jana may not have been abused simply because, at age 12, she was already in puberty.

Pedophiles often target children who have not gone through puberty, which may have been the reason that Jana escaped sexual abuse. If Josh is a pedophile, there is not cure or way to change it, he is a danger to society.

[lightningmcqueen]

I want someone to file a FOIA request for the pedophile cop that failed to file a police report on Josh. He was sent away for 56 YEARS. That is longer than many people serve for murder. Any involvement w child porn is a terrible crime. But I wonder whether this was looking at a few pics online, or perhaps actually creating/distributing material. I think the previous comment re: the Duggars media studio is a bit of a stretch.... but it still makes me wonder. I never did really understand what Josh was working on in there. Unless the entire fundie world is a sexual abusive cesspool (and maybe it is?) it seems like it can't be coincidental that so many abusers (Josh, cop, Gothard) are entwined only by pure conincidence.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

You professionally analysed Josh? Or did dr Phil? How on earth do you know???

Why do you keep calling me Dr Phil? And it's not rocket science. Anyone who takes time to read and understand abuse psychology knows this is the case. Someone who is sexually frustrated does NOT behave this way. He not only knew and admitted what he did was wrong, but he increased in aggressiveness as time went on. Someone who is sexually frustrated might touch someone without consent not realizing the ramifications of what they were doing. But Josh did. It's in the police report. Not to mention, he molested a FOUR YEAR OLD. That's not curiosity or frustration.

[Toothfairy]

Tlc is all about money. I hope they cancel the show but then they might just cut Josh. I can't see fans looking at the show the same way again. Things are adding up. The skirts side hug, no kissing. I wonder why cps didn't follow up back when they were suppose to.

I don't understand why JimChelle are still in this cult. This cult didn't protect their kids. It harm them. First Josh their own kid then their leader. How can they sit back and allow shit like this to happen? How can they be so damn heartless. I read stories on recovering grace about parents finally seeing the light and getting out of their cult. They apologize to their children for the damage they've done. I wish JimChelle would do this. They need to get away from Gothard fast, enroll their children in real school, and get everyone therapy with the money they pimped off their kids. Unfortunately I don't see this happening. It's also sad to know that there are other fundie families that keep abuse a secret like this. JimChelle are two horrible worthless people who didn't deserve children.

[Toothfairy]

Why do you keep calling me Dr Phil? And it's not rocket science. Anyone who takes time to read and understand abuse psychology knows this is the case. Someone who is sexually frustrated does NOT behave this way. He not only knew and admitted what he did was wrong, but he increased in aggressiveness as time went on. Someone who is sexually frustrated might touch someone without consent not realizing the ramifications of what they were doing. But Josh did. It's in the police report. Not to mention, he molested a FOUR YEAR OLD. That's not curiosity or frustration.

A 14yo molesting a 4 yo is pedophilla. I know there are programs for juvies like this. Another poster said that recovery is possible but with the right treatment. Without treatment I can't imagine what he's done since then. I'm sure there might be more victims. If Josh can do this to 5 girls without guilt or stopping plus didn't get treatment then he's done it again.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

How does she justify that? She's choosing a molester over her own daughter-in-law. There is no neutral ground here!

Like I said earlier, it could be to protect their relationship with Jessa and Ben, who are still under the control of the compound. Or it could be that Jessa still hasn't come to real terms with her brainwashing and thinks everything is okay, and told her in laws that. Or Jessa told her in laws everything is okay, even though she knows it's not, because she's been brainwashed to keep if sweet.

It may also be that Guinn doesn't understand. Maybe she too was brainwashed into thinking that abuse was okay. Maybe she truly thinks that it's in the past and everyone has healed. Maybe she thinks that this is how she shows solidarity.

Or maybe she is just as bad of a person as JB and Michelle.

[sense and nonsense]

This is my first post, but i have been reading the forum for months. I think that Jana may not have been abused simply because, at age 12, she was already in puberty.

Pedophiles often target children who have not gone through puberty, which may have been the reason that Jana escaped sexual abuse. If Josh is a pedophile, there is not cure or way to change it, he is a danger to society.

At this point, there is no way to know whether Josh chose his victims because of easy accessibility or because of their age.

Either way, it looks like the unknown victim was a girl he was courting/betrothed to at the time. Which would make this more a control/power issue than a being attracted to pre pubescent children issue.

Also, age 12 does not mean she had gone through puberty.

I don't feel okay typing this out, but here goes. (I can't figure out the spoiler tag so if someone could tell me I will edit this to put it behind the button)

The internet rumour originated from a poster 'concernedmom' on factnet. Some older FJ member can easily provide links.

She claimed that the oldest girl hadn't been molested and the second daughter was the one to report the abuse to JB.

This would make Jana the non victim and Jill the one who 'tattled' to JB.

[Buzzard]

I cant imagine that the show would have the fan base it once had. There were plenty of mainstream people that bought into the whole "innocent" family thing and watched. Thats long gone now.

Advertisers are finicky, as they should be. Im not sure any of them would want their product on the first "test" show to see if anyone will watch and what the backlash would be. I guess I shouldnt be surprised if there is a half hour "without commercial interruption" show sometime.

I also wouldnt be surprised if that show featured the girls talking about how they are OK and sending money to a christian victim's foundation (which only gives money to hurricane victims).

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

This is my first post, but i have been reading the forum for months. I think that Jana may not have been abused simply because, at age 12, she was already in puberty.

Pedophiles often target children who have not gone through puberty, which may have been the reason that Jana escaped sexual abuse. If Josh is a pedophile, there is not cure or way to change it, he is a danger to society.

I've thought the same thing. Though, I'm still not certain she wasn't targeted. Or that this only occurred over the course of a year. Remember, he targeted a girl who was babysitting them. I imagine that girl would have been at least Jana's age.

Unfortunately, without more victims coming forward, I don't think we will ever know if he just sexually abused those he had access to or if he sexually abuses only prepubescent children.

[InThePrayerCloset]

There are legal issues involved with cancelling the show, specifically around contracts and who is owed what and who isn't owed anything due to contractual violations.

Once the attorneys have sorted this out, the show will officially cease production. They just ended a season, so there might not be much footage in the pipeline, but they probably have to pay some of the family members who didn't violate any agreements for anything they haven't yet been compensated for.

Agreed. Though i practice law in Australia, my guess would be TLC cancelling the show and paying out the performance fee of those who didn't violate the terms of their contract. This raises the long run FJ query of how the minor children and the adults residing at home are paid - this situation may well (unfortunately) finally answer that question.

IIRC TLC had almost an entire filmed but unbroadcast season of Here Comes Honey Boo Boo in the pipeline when they cancelled the show. They've stated that footage will never be broadcast - i wouldn't be surprised if the same occurred with any remaining 19KAC footage for the coming summer season.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I cant imagine that the show would have the fan base it once had. There were plenty of mainstream people that bought into the whole "innocent" family thing and watched. Thats long gone now.

Advertisers are finicky, as they should be. Im not sure any of them would want their product on the first "test" show to see if anyone will watch and what the backlash would be. I guess I shouldnt be surprised if there is a half hour "without commercial interruption" show sometime.

I also wouldnt be surprised if that show featured the girls talking about how they are OK and sending money to a christian victim's foundation (which only gives money to hurricane victims).

I wouldn't be surprised if the first test show was all commercials related to politics. Particularly conservative politics.

[nomoxian]

This was a well orchestrated and planned outing, as in planned months ahead. TLC, Discovery Networks, Figure 8, the film crew, the Duggars, the Dillards, the Seewalds, the Kellers, other close fundie friends, Springdale PD, and everybody close to the Duggars and in the know. The last 3 episodes pretty much prove that. TLC covers it's ass with a behind the scenes episode, a guide to love (ewww), and the interview finale. That screams "bye y'all" to me.

Before the news hit, I just assumed they had run out of ideas, or wanted to stretch the new courtship episode until next season - but now? It does seem like a sort of Series Finale to me. And the behind the scenes episode is pretty much "we're like family and know everything" read: "we knew nothing about *that* so don't sue us please and thank you"

[eh02]

How amazing would it be if it was canceled and because Jim Bob and Michelle didn't disclose this, they didn't get a PENNY more?

I just hope whatever happens, TLC has taken care of the kids financially, and on an individual level. Separate funds for each of them. I would really hate to see them with no resources if the show ends.

I got the impression they may have known this was coming, too. The last episode especially felt odd.

[ariel9]

He's definitely a predator. He had to think out how to go down to his sisters room, to pretend to offer a blanket, or to lure joy onto his lap thinking she gets a book read go her. The parents need to sit down with someone who has the attitude of Steve Willkos or Oprah and get told off. It's not a misinterpretation that everyone who read the police report and out the timing together is appalled. It's scary that his parents have not gotten him true counseling. Instead they sent him somewhere ran by a predator and taught by people who are child abusers where no one knows if their abuse is physical emotional or sexual. Look at the jokes Josh makes to his victims on the show, it pretty obvious he learned nothing and was only apologetic because the public knows now. We all know that more often than not ineffective consoling leads to repeat offenses and that is scary with all those small girls running around. Some of them his own daughter, he thinks it's just a mistake. With that type of thinking who knows if he's saying " i didn't mean to" to the smal girls.

[latraviata]

Why do you keep calling me Dr Phil? And it's not rocket science. Anyone who takes time to read and understand abuse psychology knows this is the case. Someone who is sexually frustrated does NOT behave this way. He not only knew and admitted what he did was wrong, but he increased in aggressiveness as time went on. Someone who is sexually frustrated might touch someone without consent not realizing the ramifications of what they were doing. But Josh did. It's in the police report. Not to mention, he molested a FOUR YEAR OLD. That's not curiosity or frustration.

FYI I am a psychologist and I know a thing or two about abuse, so please moderate your statements about things you obviously know nothing about.

[nomoxian]

The question really is: what will they do with the intro. Will they keep Josh and his family in the lineup, will they cut them out of the lineup but still do the lineup, or will they replace the lineup?

I think they'll replace it with the explanation that "because so many new blessings are being born, it's hard to include them all while still having enough time to show y'all what nifty new things the Duggar (and Seawald and Dillard) clan is up to!" *smile to almost Jill level proportions*

[Buzzard]

Thinking back to Jessa's wedding and the "hidden" kiss, I'm wondering if they went off on their own so they wouldnt be lying in a church. They so PROUDLY pronounce that it is their first kiss. If it werent, I could see fire and brimstone Ben refusing to allow this to be stated but at the same time not wanting to explain why.

Running off on your own covers both bases. You dont have to tell anyone why you wont kiss in church and dont have to lie about why not.

[Ralar]

I think I know what caused Josh to make "some bad decisions." It was that "Buy used and save the difference."

Pat Robertson: Second Hand Clothes Could Have DEMONS In Them!

http://youtu.be/EDpp9UWVjsQ

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

FYI I am a psychologist and I know a thing or two about abuse, so please moderate your statements about things you obviously know nothing about.

I'm sorry, but if you're a psychologist and you're defending Josh, you're not a very good psychologist. There is NO reason for ANYONE to think that his behavior is anything less than predatory. He's an abuser. There is no "middle ground." Especially because he repeatedly targeted his sisters ages 4-12, his advances were completely without consent, and he preyed on the girls when they were most vulnerable (asleep in bed, away from other family members who might help, or trusting him to read them a story).

If you are a psychologist, I really hope you don't work with abuse victims or abusers because your views enable abuse, and abuse enabling is the last thing a psychologist should do.

[Talitha Cumi]

Oh my God, I've spent a full day reading all the threads. I just never expected this, but I'm not all that surprised. Fundieism gives all the power to the men, none to the women. It's a perfect breeding ground for sexual abuse, no matter what their holy book says. Especially in these closed religious communities, where the prevailing attitude is us-against-them. Kids are shut away from anyone who might be able to step in. Don't some groups have classes about how to handle CPS involvement? Who fucking DOES that?? If you're expecting that members of your group will be dealing with CPS, then there is something very wrong with what you're teaching.

I think Jana was the one not abused, simply because she was 16 at the time of the interview, and it makes the most sense for her to be working on her GED. Jill was 14 or had just turned 15. I can't imagine she'd be studying for the GED at that age. I suspect Jill was the one who insisted that Josh had turned his heart to God, God forgave him, everything is good.

Wasn't the laundry Jinger's jurisdiction? Whichever girl it was, she broke down during the interview and it made my heart hurt. I want this show canceled. I don't want JB and M to make another dime off their "Christianity." They covered up child molestation for YEARS and put all of their other kids at risk. They are disgusting, awful people and if I see their faces on my TV or anywhere else, I'm going to break something.

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