Benessa, Jinger, and the Chick Tracts

[eri]

Is one of those explanations you've heard about how "needle" is actually referring to some kind of low gate into a city? I've heard that back in the day, camels sometimes entered cities through these low gates called "needles" and had to lower to their knees to get through (and have all the packs on their backs taken off). The implication being that it's not impossible for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven, but it's challenging.

Also, could you tell me the name of a good Aramaic to English translation of the Bible? I haven't heard of that and am intrigued.

Yeah, that is the explanation I have heard. It sounds more like a backronym to me (backnick? Idk)

George Lamsa's version is my version.

[Walking Cat Bed]

Yeah, that is the explanation I have heard. It sounds more like a backronym to me (backnick? Idk)

George Lamsa's version is my version.

When we're talking about linguistics, it's a backformation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-formation, not breaking because it's wikipedia). I'm not sure about this kind of thing (eye-of-needle/gate).

[morri]

All I know about calvinism is that it was founded in switzerland by calvin and Zwingli. A bit later than lutheran protestantism(who do baby baptisms, and unbaptised baby go into limbo some place between heaven and hell. catholics just spend x amount of time in the fire before they are admitted to heaven.) Amman and Mennon were contemporaries from a little bit north of the border in South West of todays Germany.

[BobTheWalrus]

Their theory is the same as the Maxwell's and many other evangelicals - that to "have sin in your heart" is just as bad as committing it. So getting angry and slapping your sister is just as bad as murder, thinking about a cute boy kissing you is the same as having a torrid adulterous affair, lying to your parents about what's in your heart is the same as lying to a police officer about a crime you witnessed, stealing a cookie is the same as committing large scale fraud - they are all sins and make baby Jesus cry and mean you deserve an eternity in hell.

.

It's not exactly that getting angry is the precise same seriousness of thing as murder, but more that both a "small" sin and a "big" sin cut you off from God. A bit like if you got a speeding ticket, and you were like, why should I pay this, I didn't commit murder. No you didn't, so of course you're not as bad as a serial killer or rapist or something, but you still broke the law, and you can't use "I didn't break 99% of the law" as an excuse not to be punished for the 1% you did break. So in that sense, whatever the sin is doesn't matter, you still need God's forgiveness. Hope that makes sense!

[eri]

When we're talking about linguistics, it's a backformation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-formation, not breaking because it's wikipedia). I'm not sure about this kind of thing (eye-of-needle/gate).

Thank you for that. I was at a complete loss!

[DefraudedByPlaid]

Yeah, that is the explanation I have heard. It sounds more like a backronym to me (backnick? Idk)

George Lamsa's version is my version.

Thanks!

[BeccaGrim]

In Touch Weekly had a headline that said something like Wild Child Jinger had to be saved. So I clicked on it and what it is turns out to be really an eight minute video of Ben interviewing Jinger. And they start pulling out all the tools they use to turn people, in their words, to Christ. As a reform Jew, I can only hope I never ever get seated next to them on an airplane. (She apparently did this to a Hindu man on a plane.) Please someone Free Jinger.

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/wild ... t-14-53814

[KittenMitten]

Heard about it, can't watch. I'd prefer to have pins stuck under my fingernails.

Did Jinger really try to convert a Hindu man? We do hear about that all the time with these Fundies. Captive audience. :sleeping:

[BeccaGrim]

Heard about it, can't watch. I'd prefer to have pins stuck under my fingernails.

Did Jinger really try to convert a Hindu man? We do hear about that all the time with these Fundies. Captive audience. :sleeping:

Apparently on an airplane. And she has lots of stories about getting to people in airports. They must be fun overseas.

[KittenMitten]

Apparently on an airplane. And she has lots of stories about getting to people in airports. They must be fun overseas.

I love that you said"Getting to people in airports". I'm sure that is exactly what she does. Just like nails on a blackboard.

[jarona]

I started to watch but had to shut it off. I don't believe a word she is saying in the video. It's "jesus" propaganda. These "Uggars" are sick people. I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but I'm not buying this. There is something so sinister underlying this entire video. First of all, I am wary of ANYONE who wears their religious values on their sleeve to the point of trying to "win people over". WTF does this Jinger know from "sin" anyway? What could she possibly do that is sinful? Did she murder anyone? Did she steal a pair of Louboutin's from Neiman's? Did she go to her parents with a "f*ck you- I hate you all"? Garbage like this feeds my sick, voyeuristic fascination with these truly despicable people even more! :o

I hope to god that I am NEVER sitting next to one of these people on an overseas or ANY flight. :pink-shock:

Honestly, I don't know what's worse--the fact that she and Ben (ugh--what a creepy man/boy) made this video or that people will actually like and believe what she says. Oh...don't even........ :penguin-no:

[KittenMitten]

I started to watch but had to shut it off. I don't believe a word she is saying in the video. It's "jesus" propaganda. These "Uggars" are sick people. I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but I'm not buying this. There is something so sinister underlying this entire video. First of all, I am wary of ANYONE who wears their religious values on their sleeve to the point of trying to "win people over". WTF does this Jinger know from "sin" anyway? What could she possibly do that is sinful? Did she murder anyone? Did she steal a pair of Louboutin's from Neiman's? Did she go to her parents with a "f*ck you- I hate you all"? Garbage like this feeds my sick, voyeuristic fascination with these truly despicable people even more! :o

I hope to god that I am NEVER sitting next to one of these people on an overseas or ANY flight. :pink-shock:

Honestly, I don't know what's worse--the fact that she and Ben (ugh--what a creepy man/boy) made this video or that people will actually like and believe what she says. Oh...don't even........ :penguin-no:

jarona, the funny thing about sin. Thinking sinful thoughts are as bad as the sin. So thinking "I hate my sister" would equal murder, through pretty twisted logic, of which I would need a map and. Spreadsheet to follow.

As for sitting next to one on a plane, I agree. I am flying from NY to Hawaii this summer and that was a huge fear I had. The other wonderful posters on FJ had great recommendations. I personally have a Get Out Of Hell Free card. :angelic-flying:

[bunnybunz]

Does anyone remember the episode where they're in Scotland, and Jim Bob tries to save the fire-eater guy on the street? Jim Bob gets all excited and says something like, "Isn't it amazing that god put the earth just the perfect distance from the sun so that humans can survive????" and the poor street entertainer guy has to just stand there politely and listen to him blather on. You can just tell he's thinking, "if your God is so great, then why would he not be able to create humans that can survive on any planet, or even on the sun for that matter? You jackass"

[KittenMitten]

Does anyone remember the episode where they're in Scotland, and Jim Bob tries to save the fire-eater guy on the street? Jim Bob gets all excited and says something like, "Isn't it amazing that god put the earth just the perfect distance from the sun so that humans can survive????" and the poor street entertainer guy has to just stand there politely and listen to him blather on. You can just tell he's thinking, "if your God is so great, then why would he not be able to create humans that can survive on any planet, or even on the sun for that matter? You jackass"

Yeah, well. Then we wonder why many people don't like Americans.

ETA. I really do hate that people from other countries would put me and Jim Bob in the same group, but I can't blame them. I hope the world knows that there is more to America then Jim Bob and his ilk.

[Toothfairy]

I hated that episode. I also hated the El Salvador episode. The Duggars are just stupid. I can't imagine JB actually going out and getting a real job where he has to work with atheist, Muslims, Buddhist, Jewish or other people who don't believe in the same god he does. He's such an ass.

Imagine him going to a third world country looking around at the poverty and deaths meeting a Muslim or atheist family and trying to get "god" to save them.

[eri]

Hinduism and its parent, Vadic religion, predate Christianity by millennia. The neolithic civilizations and their respective religions predate Judaism by millennia. I sincerely doubt God would allow his people to form heathen religions then randomly drop some divine inspiration on select lucky groups of people during lucky time periods.

If I were Hindu and approached by a fundie Christian, I would guffaw in their face.

[txmommyof4]

OMFG! That was disgusting! Jinger: here, this is a good one for kids. :-) Ben: yeah, see, are you a good person? No, no you are not a good person. Not according to god. What the hell!

It seemed so sad to me, hearing Jinger talk about what a horrible, sinful person she was, even as a 6 y/o child. These poor kids never had a chance.

[apandaaries]

OMFG! That was disgusting! Jinger: here, this is a good one for kids. :-) Ben: yeah, see, are you a good person? No, no you are not a good person. Not according to god. What the hell!

It seemed so sad to me, hearing Jinger talk about what a horrible, sinful person she was, even as a 6 y/o child. These poor kids never had a chance.

Exactly! What could such a young kid have done to feel she was a hopeless sinner already? These lunatics and their obsession with "sin nature" are terrorizing their own children.

[roddma]

I dont believe thinking a sinful thing and doing it are the same. Maybe it's better thinking than doing. Then Im not really religious. But yea a 6 yr old feeling sinful? Sinful for what?

[freethemall]

I dont believe thinking a sinful thing and doing it are the same. Maybe it's better thinking than doing. Then Im not really religious. But yea a 6 yr old feeling sinful? Sinful for what?

The point is that they do. They believe that any kind of sinful thought is sin, any kind of disobedience which means disrespect of parents. A temper tantrum or offhand comment or jealousy of a sibling, they see all this as equvalent to murder. Are we forgetting the purpose of blanket training? For them, there's a million ways a 6 year old can sin.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I feel so sad over the guilt these poor kids are raised with. What can Jinger do that is sinful, she hasn't killed anyone, she seems quite nice and not inclined to be a bully, I cant see her being violent towards others (well, I don't know if her parents let the older kids discipline the younger ones, but that wouldn't be her fault as she was just a kid).

Shes just an average person like the rest of us who has her faults, and her hopes and dreams, who tries to be a good person but sometimes slips up. Doesn't make her sinful or evil, just makes her human, nobodys perfect. She believes all sorts of awful things, but I cant even blame her for that because she doesn't know any better, and I think that is the only thing she should change about herself.

At least she is still seeing Jessa, I guess....their closeness is kinda adorable, and I know she would be devastated if Jessa stopped being there for her when Ben came into the picture.

[freethemall]

I feel so sad over the guilt these poor kids are raised with. What can Jinger do that is sinful, she hasn't killed anyone, she seems quite nice and not inclined to be a bully, I cant see her being violent towards others (well, I don't know if her parents let the older kids discipline the younger ones, but that wouldn't be her fault as she was just a kid).

Shes just an average person like the rest of us who has her faults, and her hopes and dreams, who tries to be a good person but sometimes slips up. Doesn't make her sinful or evil, just makes her human, nobodys perfect. She believes all sorts of awful things, but I cant even blame her for that because she doesn't know any better, and I think that is the only thing she should change about herself.

At least she is still seeing Jessa, I guess....their closeness is kinda adorable, and I know she would be devastated if Jessa stopped being there for her when Ben came into the picture.

I know I just posted something similar two posts ago but let me elaborate, because I've had experience with evangelicals - for the Duggars, disobeying your parents in any way would be breaking the fifth commandment of respecting your mother and father. This could even just mean showing unhappiness with your life, like the infamous eye-rolls we used to get. Hence blanket training and teaching strict obedience at all times, always putting on a happy face (and notice Jinger's gone hard with looking extra smiley lately). Wanting your sister's toy is coveting her, the ninth commandment. Being obsessed with a toy could be making it your idol, the second commandment. These are all things normal kids do all the time, but they try to "train" out of them and reinforce that these are sins. They see the commandments as equal, so coveting and disobeying parents is just as awful and requires as much repentance as stealing or murdering would.

Ben at one point had another preachy video or monologue on social media somewhere talking about sin that showed their mindset pretty well, if anyone can link it.

[lascuba]

Exactly! What could such a young kid have done to feel she was a hopeless sinner already? These lunatics and their obsession with "sin nature" are terrorizing their own children.

I think a lot of is making stuff up to fit in. A big part of evangelical Christianity is finding redemption after experiencing horrible things. If you were born into that life and never had a chance to live a life that allows for mistakes, you start feeling inadequate because you don't have the inspiring "saved by Christ" story that the recovered drug addict has. So you pretend that losing your temper as a 6 year old means you were a sinner and 20 year old you no longer throwing tantrums is proof that Christ saved you, too.

[acheronbeach]

Jinger!!! No :(

Poor dear, I bet her teenage sin was something like "being cranky and wanting to be alone" or "acting snippy with mom about not being allowed to do fun stuff." I hate how these kids are made to feel guilty for everything!!

Also Ben's theology is so wannabe and amateur! Send that boy back to school!

Wannabe what?

[Tinkks]

That was the most uncomfortable 8 moments of my life.