Alyssa Bates/Webster is wearing PANTS!!

[Luisainlondon1]

Of course she won't turn into a left-wing feminist. We are all aware of that fact and it would be a little to much to hope for. Even if she changes her point of views, she'll probably become a conservative christian and I doubt she'd ever be mainstream.

I just pointed out that I like her dress, not that I think this is some sign she might change her beliefs or anything. Do I condemn her/her parents beliefs? Of course I do. But it's great to see that she's been able to find her own fashion style. That's obviously something she wasn't allowed at her parent's place. She looks genuinely happy and I am happy for her. If that makes me a leghumper, ok, I am a leghumper then.

[Lemchop]

Here's something interesting I never noticed on the Bates's website. Alyssa'a favorite book is The Count of Monte Cristo. I've never read it, but isn't that book considered to be classic literature? I briefly googled it and it looks secular. I have no doubt that the Bateses censor and hand-pick what their kids watch and read, but that would be great if they were allowed/encouraged to read sophisticated novels.

[browngrl]

I have no idea if Alyssa is truly becoming fundie lite or more mainstream. I don't think you can tell that much from a few instagram pictures. The past little while I've been doing spring cleaning and when I do that I often wear a frumper (big pockets to hold cleaning supplies/misc stuff and super comfortable). Because I've been cleaning out dusty areas I often use a kerchief to cover my hair and I wear running shoes to complete the look (because: comfort and safety when climbing ladders). I've taken a few selfies while doing this to show my mom/dad what I'm up to. Also my niece has taken an interest in cooking and crochet (two things I enjoy but her mother hates) so I send her pictures and instructions for my projects and recipes . If anyone looked at my photos they might well assume I've gone fundie. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

So I don't know how much can be inferred from a few photos. Now if she were to start writing a blog/tweets/tumblr posts openly discussing the problems with fundamental religions or to attend a pro choice rally that would be another thing.

[Rachel333]

I'm kind of on both sides here. Wearing pants definitely doesn't mean someone isn't fundie, but if skirts and tops covering shoulders were always part of her dress code it is a significant change even if it doesn't mean she's suddenly non-fundie.

For all those people who think that because she wears pants/sleeveless shirts that means she is rejecting IBLP/ATI, you should take a look at Alfred's family(I can't remember his last name but he comments on Recovering Grace). Alfred is a rabid believer in all things Gothard/ATI/IBLP. He has seen Gothard ignore one of his own daughters for not being skinny and pretty enough and instead choosing one of his other daughters who was less qualified for the job but was prettier and skinnier, and he defended Gothard's actions. He is one of the most biggest Gothard fans ever. Guess what? His wife and kids wear shorts, sleeveless shirts, and tight pants. How Alyssa is dressing is no indication that she is rejecting the Gothard belief system. It isn't any indication that she is trying to piss off her parents by posting them on instagram. I would be surprised if they didn't know beforehand that Alyssa was going to switch to dressing this way. All we know is that Alyssa has decided to start dressing differently than her parents, but well within the belief current ATI belief system. She has not, as far as I can tell, given any indication that she is rejecting the teachings of Bill Gothard.

This isn't really Bates-related, but I've known one of this guy's daughters for years and I felt so bad when I realized it was her dad making all those comments. She seems so much more normal than he does.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I suppose she is less extreme than her parents, but I follow a ton of off-the-radar ATI/Alert/Iblp people on Instagram and most of them dress normally. But their beliefs are identical to the frumper wearing ones.

[rosaline]

Here's something interesting I never noticed on the Bates's website. Alyssa'a favorite book is The Count of Monte Cristo. I've never read it, but isn't that book considered to be classic literature? I briefly googled it and it looks secular. I have no doubt that the Bateses censor and hand-pick what their kids watch and read, but that would be great if they were allowed/encouraged to read sophisticated novels.

Hm, that's interesting. Definitely a classic, written by Alexandre Dumas, and full of intrigue.

[Melissa1977]

Here's something interesting I never noticed on the Bates's website. Alyssa'a favorite book is The Count of Monte Cristo. I've never read it, but isn't that book considered to be classic literature? I briefly googled it and it looks secular. I have no doubt that the Bateses censor and hand-pick what their kids watch and read, but that would be great if they were allowed/encouraged to read sophisticated novels.

Opposite to Duggars, Bates children are allowed to read normal books. Of course censorship rules, but they read classic novels. I think Katie reads lots of mistery books (Agatha Christie).. Well at least they can read non-religious books.

[nausicaa]

Hm, that's interesting. Definitely a classic, written by Alexandre Dumas, and full of intrigue.

Yeah, it's definitely secular. Dumas also wrote The Three Musketeers, in which the church leaders are the villains. I don't remember there being much in the way of inappropriate sexual liaisons in The Count of Monte Cristo (considering the male and female leads spend the vast majority of the story separated). That is a long ass book though. I wonder if she's only read the abridged version (like me :lol: )

Alyssa really intrigues me. I can't quite figure her out.

And as for Katie reading Agatha Christie books--that's awesome! I'm a huge Christie fan, and most of her female leads are plucky, smart, and independent. The submissive wilting flowers do not get the men in those stories. The stories also really emphasize critical thinking skills and using logic to see behind the facade people want you to believe.

[LongDogMom]

I was happy to note that Alyssa seems to be easing off on the rigid clothing rules about no showing knees or shoulders, nothing form fitting, etc. In this picture she is definitely showing both shoulders and knees and looks wonderful!

I noticed in the comments next to the picture below that one woman saidL Modesty? and another woman said she thought Alyssa looked fine and the first ommented that her shoulders and knees should be covered.

[halcionne]

Here's something interesting I never noticed on the Bates's website. Alyssa'a favorite book is The Count of Monte Cristo. I've never read it, but isn't that book considered to be classic literature? I briefly googled it and it looks secular. I have no doubt that the Bateses censor and hand-pick what their kids watch and read, but that would be great if they were allowed/encouraged to read sophisticated novels.

I love The Count of Monte Cristo. It's about a guy who takes twenty years to plan and execute revenge on his enemies. :twisted: It's also full of plot holes and ridiculous loose ends, and generally just a lot of fun. I don't have a fundie background and I haven't read the book in a while, but I do remember a scene where the protaganist takes drugs and there's lots of 19th century scandal, including a SAHD lesbian runaway. I don't think Kelly would approve. :shhh:

ETA I'm sorry for anyone who read the abridged version or a funky English translation. I tried to read it for free from Project Gutenberg, but it wasn't very readable, so I read the Penguin Classics version, as it is the best-regarded (American? idk) English translation, iirc. I'm guessing the lesbian runaway and also the baby-murdering (I had forgotten about that, lol) was omitted from any version the Bateses own. I have now talked too much about this book. :dance:

[Georgiana]

I love The Count of Monte Cristo. It's about a guy who takes twenty years to plan and execute revenge on his enemies. :twisted: It's also full of plot holes and ridiculous loose ends, and generally just a lot of fun. I don't have a fundie background and I haven't read the book in a while, but I do remember a scene where the protaganist takes drugs and there's lots of 19th century scandal, including a SAHD lesbian runaway. I don't think Kelly would approve. :shhh:

ETA I'm sorry for anyone who read the abridged version or a funky English translation. I tried to read it for free from Project Gutenberg, but it wasn't very readable, so I read the Penguin Classics version, as it is the best-regarded (American? idk) English translation, iirc. I'm guessing the lesbian runaway and also the baby-murdering (I had forgotten about that, lol) was omitted from any version the Bateses own. I have now talked too much about this book. :dance:

20 years to plan how to get back at someone, eh? When did Alyssa start wearing pants, again?

I'm kidding :) But I do think the fact that she likes a book that is mainly about someone taking their time to do what they want until the moment is right is rather telling. People don't just have favorite books because they like the story. There are tons of good stories out there. A favorite book is something more than just that: it's something you relate to, something that speaks to you and your life on a deeper level.

I think Alyssa was waiting for her moment for a long time, and The Count helped her get through it.

[halcionne]

20 years to plan how to get back at someone, eh? When did Alyssa start wearing pants, again?

I'm kidding :) But I do think the fact that she likes a book that is mainly about someone taking their time to do what they want until the moment is right is rather telling. People don't just have favorite books because they like the story. There are tons of good stories out there. A favorite book is something more than just that: it's something you relate to, something that speaks to you and your life on a deeper level.

I think Alyssa was waiting for her moment for a long time, and The Count helped her get through it.

You're absolutely right. I probably love the revenge aspect because I still carry a grudge over twenty year old insults, myself. ;) She should read the unabridged version, if she hasn't already.

[JillyO]

By the way, the friends whose wedding she was going to wearing that dress don't appear to be fundie. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they're still very conservative Christians or even fundie-lite. But they were engaged for an entire year and at least kissed before marriage (and even uploaded a kissing picture, so that's saying something too). I'm glad Alyssa has non-fundie friends in Florida!

[Melissa1977]

For me, the important thing is that she's rebelling against her parents rules (wearing pants, showing her bra, sleeveless...). She was raised in these modesty rules as the most important rules for a lady and she married and started to rebel. I say rebel because she's not just doing it, she's showing in instagram. If she was soooo submissive daughter, she wouldn't post a picture showing her bra. I highly doubt that her husband tells her to do it.

So that's her goal I think. She's enjoying a kind of freedom. She can remain ATI or whatever she wants, but at least she seems she's being herself.

Edit to correct

[Fundie Bunny]

By the way, the friends whose wedding she was going to wearing that dress don't appear to be fundie. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they're still very conservative Christians or even fundie-lite. But they were engaged for an entire year and at least kissed before marriage (and even uploaded a kissing picture, so that's saying something too). I'm glad Alyssa has non-fundie friends in Florida!

Where have you seen that picture? I thought there was mo evidence of them kissing before marriage

Edited to add that nevermind, i thought you were talking about Jhon and Alyssa kissing

[eviek]

I think she looks so great, and even this step towards freedom and personal responsibility is great. Go Alyssa! :cracking-up:

[LongDogMom]

For me, the important thing is that she's rebelling against her parents rules (wearing pants, showing her bra, sleeveless...). She was raised in these modesty rules as the most important rules for a lady and she married and started to rebel. I say rebel because she's not just doing it, she's showing in instagram. If she was soooo submissive daughter, she wouldn't post a picture showing her bra. I highly doubt that her husband tells her to do it. So that's her goal I think. She's enjoying a kind of freedom. She can remain ATI or whatever she wants, but at least she seems she's being herself.

Good for her! I'll bet it is much easier for her to rebel being in Florida than if she lived near her parents, so I'm glad she has the freedom and support to live the way she wants! Maybe some of her siblings will take note and follow suit!

[actuallyjessica]

Where have you seen that picture? I thought there was mo evidence of them kissing before marriage

Edited to add that nevermind, i thought you were talking about Jhon and Alyssa kissing

i have a feeling they didn't save their first kiss for their wedding day. i've never seen written, or heard them say they saved their first kiss. whitney and zach admitted they did not save theirs, but that's because they admitted it to gil & kelly out of guilt. maybe alyssa and john didn't fess up? or maybe they did and they didn't want to speak about it because it's really no ones business but their own?

[SassyPants]

How old is Alyssa? She looks 30 to me, which I suppose is good since she is on the accelerated plan.

[DaffyDill]

How old is Alyssa? She looks 30 to me, which I suppose is good since she is on the accelerated plan.

She's 20 IIRC.

[Mabel]

I guess this is the right topic to post in this, but I noticed she was wearing a Captain America shirt in her latest picture. I wonder if she's seen it even though there is a really defrauding Chris Evans shirtless scene :lol:

[Melissa1977]

I guess this is the right topic to post in this, but I noticed she was wearing a Captain America shirt in her latest picture. I wonder if she's seen it even though there is a really defrauding Chris Evans shirtless scene :lol:

I wouldn't be surprised if she goes to the cinema to watch mainstream films. I know it's not a big deal, but it's another thing against the way she was raised.

[actuallyjessica]

Along with watching Mainstream TV and movies, I'd bet she also listens to mainstream music.

[sense and nonsense]

I guess this is the right topic to post in this, but I noticed she was wearing a Captain America shirt in her latest picture. I wonder if she's seen it even though there is a really defrauding Chris Evans shirtless scene [emoji38]

That scene was..... fun ;)

[artdecades]

I guess this is the right topic to post in this, but I noticed she was wearing a Captain America shirt in her latest picture. I wonder if she's seen it even though there is a really defrauding Chris Evans shirtless scene :lol:

She listed it as her favorite movie for a Bringing Up Bates promotional interview. She knows whats up :wink-kitty: