Liturgy in IFB - LOT of questions !

[Marianne]

Is there a liturgy at the IFB ?

How is a cult / Mass ?

Is there often the Eucharist ?

Do they read the Bible during the mass ?

Do the Bible readings follow an annual order, or just what the pastor wants ?

Old AND New Testament ?

Is the sermon connected to the biblical text ?

The sermons speaks often about what ?

Do they sing a lot?

What ?

In the Eucharist, how does it take place ?

With a host or real bread ?

Wine or grape juice ?

Who can take the Eucharist (child or adult) ?

Is baptisms during mass?

Are theyre are other ceremonies during Mass ?

For former IFB : do you liked to go at the mass ?

 

THank you for answering my questions

[lawfulevil]

I don't know specifically about IFB churches, but I was raised Rite I Episcopalian (basically Anglican, Marianne) in a particularly uptight parish. As a teenager, I went to a "non-denominational" church with friends. I've also been to a few Baptist services, and some Lutheran.

1. Liturgy: Non-denom worship had a specific order and form, but it wasn't anything like as standardized or ritualized as the church I grew up in.

2. I'm not sure what you mean here? I think you mean transubstantiation? Maybe? Most Episcopal priests of my experience don't believe in transubstantiation, so I don't think it's a thing in Protestant denoms in general. But who knows, there's plenty of faux-Jews running around in fundie circles, it's not out of the question.

3. It's usually called Communion here. It's been included in every service that I've seen, even home church.

4. Depends. Episcopalians do. Some non-denom types read passages. Some just have REALLY long sermons. With worksheets and Powerpoint!

5. Episcopalians had an annual order. The non-denom places I went, it was whatever the pastor felt like.

6. Depends.

7. Uh, well, kind of? Episcopal: more or less. Usually. Maybe. The Bishop did whatever the hell he wanted. N-D: Lots of references, but more to back up the message of the week.

8. Sermons totally depend on who's writing them. In America they can be anywhere from 10 minutes to hours long (no, seriously, hours). We had a couple different priests over the years and it varied a lot. One of the assistant guys LOVED the sound of his own voice.

9. There's usually a lot of music here. The message tends to be about the same but the genre is very different from denom to denom. Even church to church. The Episcopal church I went to had a truly marvelous pipe organ and an acceptable choir. The non-denom had a lot of mediocre-to-decent guitar and some PK's singing, who mostly sucked. The Baptists just used their sound system (white Baptists) and played mainstream Christian rock. And the Lutheran church had a very nice piano and a good choir.

10. We sang along. There were multiple songs per service.

11. Episcopalian and Lutheran went up to the rail. Episcopalians shared a cup of wine, but you could ask for intincture. The Lutherans passed out cups of wine, and they used better wine. Sigh. Baptists and non-denom both used bitty cups of grape juice.

12. Horrid, horrid styrofoam wafers. We only used real bread for First Communion. No idea about the other churches, I didn't take communion there. The non-denom was like OH YOU TOTALLY CAN but... no thanks.

13. Not sure about others, the non-denom was so big there was a huge (hundreds of people) services just for teenagers. But I took communion in childhood. Mother used to keep strong mints in her purse for the aftertaste because Franzia is vile.

14. Baptism was before Mass for Episcopalians. Water sprinkling, no dunking.

15. Just First Communion and Confirmation. Some weddings would have Mass but it wasn't during the regular service.

16. Not really applicable.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Not an expert but would say they go to church, sing a few old school hymns (not fans off fern Christian worship songs), and listen to an hour to 1.5 hour sermon that is all bible, lots of verses, about the evils of sin and the blessings of living righteously. Its not "feel good" speaking like many modern churches.There might be occasional missionary guest speakers and baptisms during the service (what it's called instead of mass) although large baptism groups can occur in a lake depending on how rural the area. Long white gowns worn. Full Immersion. Age is older kids on up. Communion taken once a month with a cracker and grape juice.

[Marianne]

thank you for answering :D

1) I thought Anglican/Espicopalian have something called Books of common prayer, you did not use it ?

8) HOURS ? uuurg. :?

Cracker and grape juice... :lol:

[lawfulevil]

1. Yeah, we did. It's where the different types of services and prayers are outlined. It's online, if you're curious. Anyway, that's why I said Rite I - there's different forms of Sunday worship. Rite I is formal. ("The Holy Eucharist: Rite One" at bcponline.org).

8. God, yes. Some of them LOVE their own voices.

[formergothardite]

Is there a liturgy at the IFB ?- no.

How is a cult / Mass ? - I don't understand this question.

Is there often the Eucharist ? -We call it communion and growing up it was maybe a couple times a year. You couldn't take it unless you had been saved and baptized. We were also told that if you took it and weren't right with God something horrible would happen to you

.

Do they read the Bible during the mass ? - Do you mean church service? The Bible reading went along with the pastor's sermon.

Do the Bible readings follow an annual order, or just what the pastor wants ? - Just what the pastor wants. He usually would have a series of sermons that would cover a month or so and then maybe one or two stand alone sermons.

Old AND New Testament ? - Both were taught.

Is the sermon connected to the biblical text ? Yes. It would always be "Get out your KJV Bible and turn with me to (whatever passage was being used.)

The sermons speaks often about what ? Anything and everything.

Do they sing a lot? - Depends on what you mean by a lot. We started off with about two hymns, the choir would sing, another hymn or two, sometimes a person would then sing, the piano would play while the offering was being taken up, and finally we had to endure the eleventy million verses of Just As I Am at the end of the service for an altar call.

Here is an altar call if you don't know what that is. At the end of the service everybody sings a song (often Just As I Am) and people come to the front to pray or talk to the pastor about their sins. These things can last FOREVER!

What ? - hymns mostly

In the Eucharist, how does it take place ?

With a host or real bread ? It was usually some weird communion wafers that tasted bad.

Wine or grape juice ? There was only grape juice in the Bible. Wine is from the devil. :lol:

Who can take the Eucharist (child or adult) ? Anyone, adult or child who has been saved and baptized.

Is baptisms during mass? We usually had them about ever six months at a special baptism service. Often in the evening. It depended on how many people needed to get baptized.

Are theyre are other ceremonies during Mass ? I'm guessing by Mass you mean a typical service? They had baby dedications and people could join the church or get saved.

For former IFB : do you liked to go at the mass ? Did I like going? I didn't realize that there was an option to not go but I was bored a great deal. I don't go now.

THank you for answering my questions :)

[holierthanyou]

Is there a liturgy at the IFB ?

How is a cult / Mass ?

Is there often the Eucharist ?

Do they read the Bible during the mass ?

Do the Bible readings follow an annual order, or just what the pastor wants ?

Old AND New Testament ?

Is the sermon connected to the biblical text ?

The sermons speaks often about what ?

Do they sing a lot?

What ?

In the Eucharist, how does it take place ?

With a host or real bread ?

Wine or grape juice ?

Who can take the Eucharist (child or adult) ?

Is baptisms during mass?

Are theyre are other ceremonies during Mass ?

For former IFB : do you liked to go at the mass ?

THank you for answering my questions :)

I attended an IFB church for one year as an adult. Here are the answers based on my experience:

How is a cult / Mass ? There were services on Sunday morning, Sunday evening, and Wednesday evening

Is there often the Eucharist ? They did not have communion every week.

Do they read the Bible during the mass ? Yes, they read large parts of the bible every service. Probably 20-30 verses, usually from different parts of the Bible.

Do the Bible readings follow an annual order, or just what the pastor wants ? The pastor creates his message/sermon topic, and then the Bible verses were used to back up his message point.

Old AND New Testament ? Yes

Is the sermon connected to the biblical text ? YES!

The sermons speaks often about what ? Serving God, Being obedient to God and God's pastors, the importance of sacrifice in tithing money to God's church, being "pure", raising "good" children.

Do they sing a lot? Usually two hymns first thing, and then three other traditional hymns spread throughout the service.

What ? Traditional hymns. Mostly from time period of second great awakening.

In the Eucharist, how does it take place ? In the main sanctuary room

With a host or real bread ? bread

Wine or grape juice ? grape juice

Who can take the Eucharist (child or adult) ? all who are "saved" (so unlikely many children under age 5)

Is baptisms during mass? I never saw one

Are theyre are other ceremonies during Mass ?

For former IFB : do you liked to go at the mass ? I found it interesting, for a while. Women were literally not allowed to speak in the main church room, but could sing. During a hymn sing evening (where people call out what hymns they would like to sing next), I noticed the women would indicate to their husbands what song they wanted, and their husband would say the hymn number aloud. I found this strict an interpretation of women not talking in church to be surreal.

[jerkit]

@formergothardite - I've read on SFL about Just as I Am on repeat and I always thought it was a joke. This actually happens? It's a thing that happens in different IFB churches?

[browncoatslytherin]

oh gods, even in non-ifb churches, "just as i am" is a big altar call song. especially in one church i was in, it seemed to take FOREVER. anyone could go up to the altar to pray at the time, not necessarily about sins, just anything they felt burdened about, so sometimes, instead of standing there and singing and singing, i would just go up there just to kneel and lay my head down (forward, against the steps, so it looked like i was praying) and close my eyes.

i think the former fundies here should write a book called "church hacks"...like life hacks, but to help you get through church :cracking-up:

[BrownieMomma]

Pardon my ignorance but what exactly is IFB?

I don't find that in the FJ dictionary.

TIA for enlightenment!

[PennySycamore]

oh gods, even in non-ifb churches, "just as i am" is a big altar call song. especially in one church i was in, it seemed to take FOREVER. anyone could go up to the altar to pray at the time, not necessarily about sins, just anything they felt burdened about, so sometimes, instead of standing there and singing and singing, i would just go up there just to kneel and lay my head down (forward, against the steps, so it looked like i was praying) and close my eyes.

i think the former fundies here should write a book called "church hacks"...like life hacks, but to help you get through church :cracking-up:

Just as I Am has at least 6 verses and it's slooow. If you finish all six verses and the pastor wants to start it again, he can just signal to the choir director and organist to repeat the whole thing. I've seen it happen.

BrownieMama, IFB means Independent Fundamentalist Baptist.

[BrownieMomma]

Thanks PennySycamore! :)

I kind of thought that but then I was really confused by the questions.

I'm gonna re-read this thread.

[browncoatslytherin]

Just as I Am has at least 6 verses and it's slooow. If you finish all six verses and the pastor wants to start it again, he can just signal to the choir director and organist to repeat the whole thing. I've seen it happen.

BrownieMama, IFB means Independent Fundamentalist Baptist.

it's a total lullaby tune to me, it's so slow and mellow.

i guess i should specify that i've been to both ifb and non-ifb churches, and the one i described above was ifb. i'm still sick, trying to get over this cold, and extremely tired with very low energy, so the brain functioning is not so great right now.

there are a few songs that seem to be staples, no matter where you go. "amazing grace" is obviously another big one. "how great thou art" and "great is thy faithfulness" was pretty interchangeable. "blessed assurance" and "turn your eyes upon jesus" were pretty big, too. anyone else? remember any hymns or songs that seemed to be sung wherever you went?

[formergothardite]

Singing all Just As I Am the verses of Just As I Am over and over isn't a joke. :lol: I wish it was. I wasted so much of my childhood trapped in pews singing that song and wishing the service would just end. The worst was when the pastor was finally about to wrap up the service and people were starting to gather their stuff in a subtle manner and then somebody would head down front to pray and the pastor would signal for another round of Just As I Am. :cry: I would be so hungry because we had been at church since like 9:00 in the morning at it was now 1 in the afternoon.

Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus usually meant that the pastor had plans and was going to have a short altar call. I always got excited when I saw that song listed in the church bulletin.

Holy, Holy, Holy(it is one of my favorite hymns), At Calvary, All Hail the Power of Jesus' Name, To God Be the Glory, Great Things He Hath Done, Crown Him With Many Crowns, and At The Cross, are some of the hymns I remember being sang a lot at the several IFB churches I went to. Amazing how these hymns have stuck in my head.

It never occurred to me that people might go to the altar to sleep. :lol: What a great idea.

[Palimpsest]

Pardon my ignorance but what exactly is IFB?

I don't find that in the FJ dictionary.

TIA for enlightenment!

Independent Fundamentalist Baptist. Not to be confused with Southern Baptist Convention, Westboro Baptist Church, or a slew of other Baptist denominations that believe in adult baptism by immersion!

Here's a fairly typical example of their beliefs: fundamentalistbaptistchurch.org

Some, but not all, of the Fundies we discuss here are IFB. It's sort of a default category for me when I can't figure out which sect/cult they belong to! I'm pissed with John Shrader right now because he used to be IFB but seems to have reinvented himself in the last month as a Biblical Historical Baptist. WTF is that? :roll:

[formergothardite]

Wait, John Shrader is a Biblical Historical Baptist?! No wonder he lost support from IFB churches. They usually only support IFB missionaries.

[Palimpsest]

Wait, John Shrader is a Biblical Historical Baptist?! No wonder he lost support from IFB churches. They usually only support IFB missionaries.

It's a brand new thing on his latest video and could explain a lot. I could swear he used to call himself IFB, which is why I'm looking for the old FB posts he wiped.

[browncoatslytherin]

It never occurred to me that people might go to the altar to sleep. :lol: What a great idea.

church hacks! it's legit :lol:

[formergothardite]

It's a brand new thing on his latest video and could explain a lot. I could swear he used to call himself IFB, which is why I'm looking for the old FB posts he wiped.

Over to the side of his Team Zambia website there is a link for Global Independent Baptist Missions that doesn't appear to work. I don't know if it did originally or if the GIBM website has removed him. IFB are usually very strict about only supporting IFB missionaries because they believe that IFB churches are the only true churches that follow Christ.

teamzambia.com/

[jerkit]

I personally lovelovelove hymns. But I never had to sit through multiple rounds of them while waiting on people to finish praying. :P

[Palimpsest]

Over to the side of his Team Zambia website there is a link for Global Independent Baptist Missions that doesn't appear to work. I don't know if it did originally or if the GIBM website has removed him. IFB are usually very strict about only supporting IFB missionaries because they believe that IFB churches are the only true churches that follow Christ.

teamzambia.com/

I'll copy this over to the Shrader thread so the conversation doesn't get lost.

Shrader is still listed on the GIBM site and they featured his prayer letter on the front page last month.

What is a Biblical Historical Baptist?

[BrownieMomma]

Marianne, I find your questions quite interesting in light that you are asking about Baptists but in a Catholicly kind of way. My experience is as a Southern Baptist Convention member, which is not IFB but they are similar in a lot of ways, at least from what I just read by googling. A lot of IFB formed when they left associations and conventions, which the SBC is the largest Baptist organization today.

My experience, living in the South, is that SBC is very common. Throw a stick in any direction anywhere you are and you'll probably hit a Southern Baptist. I've never known anyone who said they were IFB, cannot recall ever seeing a church building identified as IFB, but every town in Texas has at least one SBC church. Maybe not every single little spit of a town, but it's common as dirt.

Your questions and my answers:

Is there a liturgy at the IFB ? Most Baptists would probably have no idea what you mean by the word 'liturgy.' The closest I can come is what is called 'order of service.' There is a new bulletin printed every week, generally at the church itself but sometimes contracted out to a local printer. This completely controlled by the pastor and associated ministers, usually a youth minister and a music minister.

How is a cult / Mass ?No idea what you mean by cult, but it is not called a Mass. Around here that is strictly Catholic. Churches hold services Sunday morning, Sunday night and Wednesday night, on the regular. Bigger churches have multiple services on Sunday morning, sometimes these are by musical preference, i.e. one service will feature hymns and piano/organ, another service will feature contemporary music and a band. Choir might or might not perform at both.

Is there often the Eucharist ? Again, around here that is a strictly Catholic term. Baptists take communion, generally once a quarter (every three months). You are supposed to be a member of that particular church but no one vets you or would refuse you if you took it. I've seen it passed around by ushers and I've seen people line up to go down front to pick up their own.

Do they read the Bible during the mass ? Not like in Catholic church, where someone will stand up and read a passage. During a sermon, the pastor will probably say "please open your Bible to such and such passage."

Do the Bible readings follow an annual order, or just what the pastor wants ? No readings, no particular order. I've heard that if you attend Catholic Mass on schedule, like once a week, in three years you will hear the entire Bible read. There is nothing comparable in SBC.

Old AND New Testament ? It's NT with honor given to OT.

Is the sermon connected to the biblical text ? The sermon is the "main thing" in a church service. It seemed to me while attending Catholic Mass (for about 2-3 years) that the homily is one of several parts of the Mass. At SBC it is the main deal.

The sermons speaks often about what ? Whatever the pastor wants to talk about. Some use printed guides but it is not mandatory at all. I'm sure it's not easy coming up with a new idea every week. Some pastors preach a series over a particular topic, whenever it strikes their fancy to do so.

Do they sing a lot? It's a regular part of the service.

What ? There is/was a Baptist hymnal, usually stored on the backs of the pews. Very often now the words are on a screen instead.

In the Eucharist, how does it take place ? During communion, the pastor goes over the verses about this is my body, then crackers and juice are used. It is symbolism, there is no transubstantiation or consubstantiation at all. No transforming of the bread or juice, period.

With a host or real bread ? Few Baptists probably know what a host is. It's a cracker and there are no specifics as to how it is made.

Wine or grape juice ? Purple grape juice, always.

Who can take the Eucharist (child or adult) ? Any church member can participate in Communion, there is no prerequisite like confession. To be a church member means you have made a public profession of faith and have been baptized by immersion. Public profession of faith means you went down front at the end of a service, and stood there while the pastor explains who you are and that you are making a public profession. It is not necessary for you to say anything. Then people line up to shake your hand.

Is baptisms during mass? Baptisms occur during regular church services. There are no special or extra times that people go up to the church to be baptized.

Are theyre are other ceremonies during Mass ? Sometimes there is a baby dedication, usually during morning services. Can't think of any others atm.

For former IFB : do you liked to go at the mass ? Did I enjoy going to church? At some points of my life, after I became an adult. When I was kid, yeah. As a teen, no. Eventually I left it completely.

[Walking Cat Bed]

11. Episcopalian and Lutheran went up to the rail. Episcopalians shared a cup of wine, but you could ask for intincture. The Lutherans passed out cups of wine, and they used better wine. Sigh. Baptists and non-denom both used bitty cups of grape juice.

Apropos of nothing, but one of my professors ends each semester with moonshine served in the tiny communion cups. I'm interested to see how that works out.

[PrairieGirl]

@formergothardite - I've read on SFL about Just as I Am on repeat and I always thought it was a joke. This actually happens? It's a thing that happens in different IFB churches?

I cannot speak for formergothardite, but I was raised throughout the Midwest in several IFB churches and "Just As I Am" was the go-to song for the closing of the service. And yes, several verses were sung, sometimes we repeated them if we ran out because there could still be that one person in the congregation who was wrassling with the debil, and perhaps if we sing one more verse, we can get the Holy Spirit to descend and make that one person come forward to repent of their terrible sin (which was usually watching cable TV or having a wine cooler or something).

Um, sorry for the above run-on sentence post. Hearing "Just As I Am" strikes a chord with me (no pun intended).

[formergothardite]

I should mention that my experience with IFB was in the 80's and early 90's. Things might have changed since then. I do remember one part of the service that, if there was a visitor, they would ask the visitor to raise their hand or stand so that the ushers could hand them a card to fill out with their personal info(like name and address) to place in the offering plate. The following Tuesday people from the church would always drop by to visit and encourage the people to become members of the church.