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Those poor, misunderstood Pearls..../CNN Clip [Merge]


Koala

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So this is the first time I've ever actually seen or heard the Pearls speak, and this might come off as catty but I hope it doesn't: where are they from? Shalom has the strangest accent I've ever heard, and I say that as someone with a really thick Southern (US) accent. I can't place it. Also, she is totally making that shit up about remembering the stairs incident that happened when she was 7. I'm sure that actually happened, but it had to be because her parents told her about it as some weird proud moment. Sickening.

There was no way it could be a real memory - she was four months old. When Mike tells the story, they switched her on the legs, several times, not on the hand once. So they can't even get their stories straight:

One of our girls who developed mobility early had a fascination with crawling up the stairs. At four months she was too unknowing to be punished for disobedience. But for her own good, we attempted to train her not to climb the stairs by coordinating the voice command of "No" with little spats on the bare legs. The switch was a twelve-inch long, one-eighth-inch diameter sprig from a willow tree.

Such was her fascination with climbing that four or five sessions had not made her stop. The thought of further spankings was disconcerting, so I conceived an alternative. After one more spanking, I laid the switch on the bottom step. We later observed her crawl to the stairs and start the ascent, only to halt at the first step and stare at the switch. She backed off and never again attempted to climb the stairs, even after the switch was removed.

This is one of the stories in which whipping didn't really do the job, and makes me want to ask him "If it's so harmless, why was the thought of further spankings disconcerting?"

Mike was born in Tennessee, and the kids were raised there.

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Speaking of lies, Nathan says in the first minute that his older brother (Gabriel) and sister (Rebekah Anast) are "missing because they're both out of town."

Not sure where the older brother is (he did live near the family in TN), but Rebekah has been "out of town" in New Mexico for over 10 years, living with her wack job "husband" Gabriel and 7+ kids.

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What baby crawls so proficiently at four months? I call major bullshit on that (well, all of it, but that detail stood out in the stair narrative).

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What baby crawls so proficiently at four months? I call major bullshit on that (well, all of it, but that detail stood out in the stair narrative).

Yeah, I thought that too. Four month olds are usually too young to even sit up.

Also how the hell can someone remember being four months old. Their brains aren't even developed enough to hold memories-I am presuming that also applies to traumatic ones of being abused too? Although she does get the details wrong, Im imagining false memories from hearing about it from family.

Even if her age was remembered wrong and she was actually about 6 months old, its still unlikely she will remember it.

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Some babies develop quicker than others, the crawling isn't impossible at 4 months (though unlikely). I was walking at 6 months, so could of been crawling around that age. So the story could (more, COULD) be true.

Remembering it - it'd be a planted memory, from her parents telling the story so often.

I'm personally not against corporal punishment, but if your kid is so scared of the 'rod' they won't explore, that's a massive problem!

And what's wrong with a stair gate?

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Some babies develop quicker than others, the crawling isn't impossible at 4 months (though unlikely). I was walking at 6 months, so could of been crawling around that age. So the story could (more, COULD) be true.

Remembering it - it'd be a planted memory, from her parents telling the story so often.

I'm personally not against corporal punishment, but if your kid is so scared of the 'rod' they won't explore, that's a massive problem!

And what's wrong with a stair gate?

They believe that if theyre using stair gates and childproofing the house, instead of tempting the child into touching things they shouldn't have and beating them until they are terrified to touch it, the baby will never learn to stay away from things they cant have. Even though most people know that just because you have to put things out of the reach of a one year old as they don't understand not to touch, you wont be doing it forever-if you tell that same child in five years time not to touch something because it is dangerous or they might break it, they will understand not to.

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Or, if they hadn't had so many children, they could have done what I did and FOLLOWED the baby up the stairs.

My older son learned not to touch the oven by getting close to the radiator and realising that "ho' ho' ho'!" wasn't always a good thing.

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Yeah, I thought that too. Four month olds are usually too young to even sit up.

Also how the hell can someone remember being four months old. Their brains aren't even developed enough to hold memories-I am presuming that also applies to traumatic ones of being abused too? Although she does get the details wrong, Im imagining false memories from hearing about it from family.

Even if her age was remembered wrong and she was actually about 6 months old, its still unlikely she will remember it.

She actually says that she was seven months old in the video.

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She actually says that she was seven months old in the video.

Which is another discrepancy -- her parents say she was four months old in TTUAC.

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They believe that if theyre using stair gates and childproofing the house, instead of tempting the child into touching things they shouldn't have and beating them until they are terrified to touch it, the baby will never learn to stay away from things they cant have. Even though most people know that just because you have to put things out of the reach of a one year old as they don't understand not to touch, you wont be doing it forever-if you tell that same child in five years time not to touch something because it is dangerous or they might break it, they will understand not to.

"We don't believe in childproofing the home, we believe in home-proofing the child." :cray-cray:

ETA: Isn't there a section of TTUAC where he talks about doing that with an(unloaded)gun to teach them not to touch it?

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Why would anyone want to prevent normal developmental behavior? You don't really want to have a child sitting there like a lump, afraid to move, because they learn and develop by moving around and exploring.

Also, even if you take Proverbs literally, this is NOT biblical child training. The concern in Proverbs is about raising children to be moral adults. Keeping a toddler away from stairs has nothing to do with morality. It's a hazard that comes with a particular stage of development, and it ends on its own - spanking or no spanking - when the child can walk more confidently.

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Why would anyone want to prevent normal developmental behavior? You don't really want to have a child sitting there like a lump, afraid to move, because they learn and develop by moving around and exploring.

Also, even if you take Proverbs literally, this is NOT biblical child training. The concern in Proverbs is about raising children to be moral adults. Keeping a toddler away from stairs has nothing to do with morality. It's a hazard that comes with a particular stage of development, and it ends on its own - spanking or no spanking - when the child can walk more confidently.

While we were spanked a time or two as kids, my parents were not "into it" Spankings were rare, not at all hard and not so much painful as embarrassing. However, when people talked about sparing the rod and spoiling the child, my dad would quote Ephesians 6:4 King James Bible

And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

or Colossians 3:21 Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged.

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"We don't believe in childproofing the home, we believe in home-proofing the child." :cray-cray:

ETA: Isn't there a section of TTUAC where he talks about doing that with an(unloaded)gun to teach them not to touch it?

Yes.

GUN SAFETY

Being a hunting family, we have always had guns around the house. With little ones, we made sure to keep the guns out of reach. But, with the possibility of their sooner or later coming in contact with a loaded gun, we trained them for safety.

With our first toddler, I placed an old, unused and empty, single-shot shot-gun in the living room corner. After taking the toddler through the "No" saying, hand-switching sessions, they knew guns were always off limits. Every day they played around the gun without touching it. I never had to be concerned with their going into someone else's house and touching a gun. I didn't gun-proof my house, I gun-proofed my children.

Why would anyone want to prevent normal developmental behavior? You don't really want to have a child sitting there like a lump, afraid to move, because they learn and develop by moving around and exploring.

Also, even if you take Proverbs literally, this is NOT biblical child training. The concern in Proverbs is about raising children to be moral adults. Keeping a toddler away from stairs has nothing to do with morality. It's a hazard that comes with a particular stage of development, and it ends on its own - spanking or no spanking - when the child can walk more confidently.

The Pearls brag about how they couldn't less about what experts from The World say about developmental stages. They claim that all of their children still ran around freely and were never afraid, even of water after being allowed to fall (and, in one case, pushed by Dad's foot) into the pond.

I'm sure your Hebrew is better than mine, but doesn't the verse they translate as "Train up, etc. " actually mean something like "Start with a child in his way," as in "notice who your child really is?"

חֲנֹךְ לַנַּעַר, עַל-פִּי דַרְכּוֹ-- גַּם כִּי-יַזְקִין, לֹא-יָסוּר מִמֶּנָּה

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Why would anyone want to prevent normal developmental behavior? You don't really want to have a child sitting there like a lump, afraid to move, because they learn and develop by moving around and exploring.

Also, even if you take Proverbs literally, this is NOT biblical child training. The concern in Proverbs is about raising children to be moral adults. Keeping a toddler away from stairs has nothing to do with morality. It's a hazard that comes with a particular stage of development, and it ends on its own - spanking or no spanking - when the child can walk more confidently.

He wants to prevent normal developmental behaviour because he is a selfish asshole who wants everyone to be props in his life who fit around his lifestyle.

Children are great for proving you're a Godly Christian. The perfect fuck trophy to prove you're not using birth control. But they're inconvenient. They cry, don't sleep through the night, throw tantrums, make noise, touch everything and have needs and opinions of their own. It also requires too much effort to childproof the house, give children reasonable consequences and teach them how to behave in the world.

By beating your child and breaking their spirit into dust, you look like you have perfect children, but instead you don't-instead you have an empty shell in the shape of an adorable child, that doesn't do anything unless you want it too. They don't want children, they want robots or some of those reborn dolls, all the cuteness, none of the effort.

Then that robot can grow up and be the perfect sexbot for some creepy guy who is turned on by lifeless doormat women.

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Speaking of lies, Nathan says in the first minute that his older brother (Gabriel) and sister (Rebekah Anast) are "missing because they're both out of town."

Not sure where the older brother is (he did live near the family in TN), but Rebekah has been "out of town" in New Mexico for over 10 years, living with her wack job "husband" Gabriel and 7+ kids.

He didn't even name them I wonder if they refused to be in the video. Maybe a falling out too. Does make you wonder?

Michael is a creepy arsehole.

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One of the really idiotic things about people who condone instantly obedient safety proofed children who never move from a spot or touch anything, is that they often cite how well behaved children were in the pioneer days. They fail to realize that those children were often doped to the gils in order to keep them quiet and out of trouble. Or that life in desperately dangerous situations might require parents to be much stricter than modern life in the suburbs. Or that the natural thing to do if you cant childproof your environment is to either watch your child or have them in a carrier or otherwise contained.

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Yes.

The Pearls brag about how they couldn't less about what experts from The World say about developmental stages. They claim that all of their children still ran around freely and were never afraid, even of water after being allowed to fall (and, in one case, pushed by Dad's foot) into the pond.

I'm sure your Hebrew is better than mine, but doesn't the verse they translate as "Train up, etc. " actually mean something like "Start with a child in his way," as in "notice who your child really is?"

חֲנֹךְ לַנַּעַר, עַל-פִּי דַרְכּוֹ-- גַּם כִּי-יַזְקִין, לֹא-יָסוּר מִמֶּנָּה

Yes. The first word "chanoch" is actually related to the word "chanukkah", and they both refer to the idea of an initiation or dedication. So, it refers to training or education in the first, formative years. It's not about academic learning, but about setting the child on the proper course and building the proper values and attitudes. While the word is often translated as "train", it does not mean "beat your child into submission".

The word "darco" is often translated as "the way he should go", but it literally means, "in his way". The interpretation that I learned was that we are to relate to young children on their level, in the ways that are most effective and appropriate for that particular child's personality and age.

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Yes. The first word "chanoch" is actually related to the word "chanukkah", and they both refer to the idea of an initiation or dedication. So, it refers to training or education in the first, formative years. It's not about academic learning, but about setting the child on the proper course and building the proper values and attitudes. While the word is often translated as "train", it does not mean "beat your child into submission".

The word "darco" is often translated as "the way he should go", but it literally means, "in his way". The interpretation that I learned was that we are to relate to young children on their level, in the ways that are most effective and appropriate for that particular child's personality and age.

Thanks. I had read a few things that indicated that a better translation would indicate that it's about setting a child on a path that he can continue into old age because it is right for him, rather than shoehorning him into the what the parent's want.

Of course, Pearl takes advantage of the fact that the people working on the KJV chose the word "train," to turn it into a whole animal-training scenario.

Ironic, isn't it?

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These so-called biblical literalists are fucking idiots.

In the context of the oft-quoted verse about the rod of correction, they are using a shepherd's rod as an example. Literally - a shepherd's rod. The rod is NEVER used to hit the sheep. It's used to herd/guide them to go the way that the shepherd needs them to go. They just hold the rod to the side of the sheep and the sheep walk in the opposite direction. It's actually quite a lovely example of what they're trying to illustrate, that you should guide children in the right direction with a gentle hand so they don't stray and come to harm.

Ironically, this is one of the few passages that is extremely literal and yet they choose to 'interpret' it to justify their desire to beat children into submission instead of, you know, taking the passage literally.

Since three years, I spend a lot of time in the Pyrenees with a friend shepherd (a real one, with just sheep and a dog) to keep the sheep. All his comparisons between rod sheep and children training are false ... Let me explain.

First, sheep are intelligent animals. Really. They know how to solve a problematic situation when they are inside. They may not be the most intelligent animals, but they are not subject . Like, once, I take the wrong path to the home, and they stoped, the bleat, untill I realize.

Second, why HIT sheep with the rod ? WHY ? Just , I don't understand WHEN you need to hit a sheep. If a sheep goes away the herd, just send the search for, and the dog doesn't strike or don't bite the sheep. When I guide the herd, I have a rod, but more often, big bells that make noise , to guide them. And the dog, the dog always . You never HIT a sheep with the rod, because if you do it the sheep is scared, and if the sheep is afraid, he afraid the whole herd.

Okay, my message may seem silly, but this is the dumbest comparison ever made. It's just a stupid justification for child abuse.

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One thing I don't understand is why anyone would ever take parenting advice from someone who looks like they've been living rough behind a dumpster for the past 10 years. He looks like he smells of sweat and baby blood.

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To be fair, I don't have tv so am not exactly in the loop, but it doesn't seem like there has been nearly enough noise made about the Pearls and the deaths connected to people using their techniques.

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I was surprised and pleased to see someone who has really fairly fundie views herself posting on facebook about how terrible TTUAC is. It does seem to be getting a whole lot more attention lately.

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One thing I don't understand is why anyone would ever take parenting advice from someone who looks like they've been living rough behind a dumpster for the past 10 years. He looks like he smells of sweat and baby blood.

It may be cultural. What you and I view as creepy and terrifying may come across to some as folksy and down to earth. (True confession: I have to work very hard not to assume that a Southern accent automatically equals racist.)

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