Ding Dong, VF is Dead! And Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 3

[DomWackTroll]

If only there had been audio... /wistful

I'm betting that if there were, you would hear this:

"Good day, sir. I SAID 'GOOD DAY,' SIR!"

[debrand]

I'm betting that if there were, you would hear this:

"Good day, sir. I SAID 'GOOD DAY,' SIR!"

Why am I imagining this with a Foghorn Leghorn accent?

[Hane]

Thanks to all of you. I'm sorry so many have had to deal with this stuff, but it's nice to know that we're not alone and that there are resources out there.

Thanks, everyone! I'll check these out.

[julie paradox]

Hmm, this again from PB's FB:

Randy Mary Gavin: ....

:lol: sorry, I know randy doesn't mean the same on your side of the pond :lol:

Seriously, what is it with these people who have one Facebook account for two people?

[nelliebelle1197]

:lol: sorry, I know randy doesn't mean the same on your side of the pond :lol:

Seriously, what is it with these people who have one Facebook account for two people?

People who don't want one on their own so they use the main user's account? Who cares? Are there rules we should all follow?

[hoipolloi]

Some interesting comments & questions from someone posting today over at Jen's blog (jensgems.wordpress.com/2013/12/02/yet-another-doug-phillips-sex-scandal/comment-page-1/#comment-20312):

Jen and T.W… I’m confused… I have some questions I was wondering if you could answer

1. Jen- in view of the fact that VF and Doug did pay rent for the buildings and his home, even though under fair market value, is that acceptable to IRS? Was VFM required by law to pay rent? Does VFM own the building? Jim L. purchased building many years ago and turned it over to FEAST. Then, FEAST moved location to the old SACS school, which, I believe, was also purchased by Jim L. Does FEAST still exist or did VFM take over?

2. Since Jim L. specifically brought Phillips -and many like him – to San Antonio, where does Jim now stand in this mess? Didn’t his family attend the church when it was held at the home?

4. Where does Jim L, Little Bear, Welch’s stand now that this has come to pass?

Re: bolded portions -

Jim L. = James Leininger, sugar daddy to conservative Christians in Texas

FEAST = Family Educators Alliance of South Texas (homeschool-life.com/tx/homeschoolfeast/)

Little Bear = This would be Little Bear Wheeler (mantleministries.com/ & lwfchurch.org/pastors/littlebear/), yet another former partner of Doug Phillips Is A Tool who parted ways with the Tool ca 2006-2007. Check out the wedding videos of his daughters at mantleministries' YouTube channel - Little Bear gives Cap'n Bret a run for his money!

[WonderingInWA]

Why am I imagining this with a Foghorn Leghorn accent?

Nope, I think this is a quote from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, isn't it? When Wonka curtly dismisses Charlie and Grandpa Joe for imbibing the fizzy lifting drinks.

[ladyamylynn]

:lol: sorry, I know randy doesn't mean the same on your side of the pond :lol:

Seriously, what is it with these people who have one Facebook account for two people?

I know! It's one of my internet pet peeves.

[Evil Feminist]

:lol: sorry, I know randy doesn't mean the same on your side of the pond :lol:

Seriously, what is it with these people who have one Facebook account for two people?

Because maybe they are family worshiping patriarchalists??!! Or control freaks... 'lets get a family account to control what friends our kids have'... Seems most popular in fundie homeschooling families.

On a side note, its really scary how many of the people commenting on PB's FB page are my friends or friends of friends of friends. And one of them is calling bloggers and forums like us, gossip rags.. but he is one of those in Doug the tool's 'manly men do lots of push ups' group

Can anyone explain why doing push ups make them so manly? :cray-cray:

[hoipolloi]

All right, which one of you wisenheimers commented on Peter's FB page, saying "Might be a good time to re-read Elmer Gantry."

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[WonderingInWA]

Basically, Darnell would keep Doug's misdeeds private and continue to allow his abuse to continue. Nathaniel speaks against pride and yet he seems unable to comprehend how prideful he is being. He assumes that church leaders without training can not only determine if there is a sociopath among them but can pray away the abusers' faults. They can't. The most ethical action would be to be open and transparent with the other church members and to contact outside psychological or legal professionals to deal with Doug and the harm that he has done.

So, shut up and don't ask questions, lowly members who pay the pastor's salary.

Is it too much hope to think our boy Darnell finally chimed in because he knew we FJers were looking for him? Hmmm.

My overall impression of what he wrote is that he's just taking the high road. He's not going to stoop low enough to tell what he knows (and you know he's got to know a lot). He's playing the God card (that men fall but God always lives on), and he writes so well, he can get away with it. He's writing as a professional, and not writing his personal thoughts. Which I suppose is okay, but I'd love to get him really drunk and pick his brain. Interestingly, he's not HURT like Bradrick! is, which may mean he walked away from VF when he first realized Doug had severe moral flaws.

Darnell has a humble approach that is refreshing. He's still a jerk, of course, but at least he's a smart one.

[DomWackTroll]

Some interesting comments & questions from someone posting today over at Jen's blog (jensgems.wordpress.com/2013/12/02/yet-another-doug-phillips-sex-scandal/comment-page-1/#comment-20312):

Re: bolded portions -

Jim L. = James Leininger, sugar daddy to conservative Christians in Texas

FEAST = Family Educators Alliance of South Texas (homeschool-life.com/tx/homeschoolfeast/)

Little Bear = This would be Little Bear Wheeler (mantleministries.com/ & lwfchurch.org/pastors/littlebear/), yet another former partner of Doug Phillips Is A Tool who parted ways with the Tool ca 2006-2007. Check out the wedding videos of his daughters at mantleministries' YouTube channel - Little Bear gives Cap'n Bret a run for his money!

Why in the world would Little Bear be expected to give any kind of statement? I don't like his "worldview," of course, but at least the man had enough sense to break ties with Doug Phillips long ago.

And yes, Little Bear is a rather pathetic, B-List patriarch in the vein of Cap'n Bret. Shoddy production values, asinine costumes, and lame attempts to "reach the kids."

[RachelB]

I can add a couple of suggestions, too: there is a forum at http://outofthefog.net/forum/ that supports people in many different kinds of relationships with personality-disordered people. There is also a subreddit called raisedbynarcissists (http://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/) that may be helpful.

I've been browsing at Out of the Fog since you posted the link, and the NPD description bears a chillingly familiar resemblance to someone in my family. This would explain a lot. :cry:

[DomWackTroll]

Is it too much hope to think our boy Darnell finally chimed in because he knew we FJers were looking for him? Hmmm.

My overall impression of what he wrote is that he's just taking the high road. He's not going to stoop low enough to tell what he knows (and you know he's got to know a lot). He's playing the God card (that men fall but God always lives on), and he writes so well, he can get away with it. He's writing as a professional, and not writing his personal thoughts. Which I suppose is okay, but I'd love to get him really drunk and pick his brain. Interestingly, he's not HURT like Bradrick! is, which may mean he walked away from VF when he first realized Doug had severe moral flaws.

Yeah, you can bet that Darnell is not sobbing and puching pillows and crying out to the Lord like Sippy is. He washed his hands of this a long time ago and does not give a flying fuque one way or the other.

[pomegranate82]

:lol: sorry, I know randy doesn't mean the same on your side of the pond :lol:

Seriously, what is it with these people who have one Facebook account for two people?

I'm on your side of the pond! I also find it very amusing!

[Kimerical]

Hold up.

How come The Hazardou$ Journey$ busine$$, founded by Doug Phillip$ is still in operation?

In fact, I believe they are due to fly any day soon! December 8th I believe...

Have we found his escape route???

Also, is this a Botkin I see before me? Isaac?

hazardousjourneys.org/expeditions/international-expeditions/

I thought the Botkins were distancing themselves...

Hmmm..

[WonderingInWA]

Hold up.

How come The Hazardou$ Journey$ busine$$, founded by Doug Phillip$ is still in operation?

In fact, I believe they are due to fly any day soon! December 8th I believe...

Have we found his escape route???

Also, is this a Botkin I see before me? Isaac?

hazardousjourneys.org/expeditions/international-expeditions/

I thought the Botkins were distancing themselves...

Hmmm..

Good question about Hazardou$ Journey$. Did you happen to send a question on the contact form? I'm sure you wouldn't hear back if you did, but I wonder what those expedition teams are thinking. And where did all THAT money come from?

[DomWackTroll]

Hold up.

How come The Hazardou$ Journey$ busine$$, founded by Doug Phillip$ is still in operation?

In fact, I believe they are due to fly any day soon! December 8th I believe...

Have we found his escape route???

Also, is this a Botkin I see before me? Isaac?

hazardousjourneys.org/expeditions/international-expeditions/

I thought the Botkins were distancing themselves...

Hmmm..

At 00:48, Isaac smirks, rolls his eyes, and looks at a table mate like, "Can you believe this asshole?"

But yeah, why was he there?

[lemonhead]

I've been browsing at Out of the Fog since you posted the link, and the NPD description bears a chillingly familiar resemblance to someone in my family. This would explain a lot. :cry:

Yeah, it's a pretty frightening realization, but also a relief to understand there really is a problem, and it's not just *you*. There are some great books about NPD that can give you a lot of insight into how those with the disorder think, and what makes them tick, and how to protect yourself, because someone with NPD--LIKE DOUG IS A TOOL-- will not change. Toxic Parents is a good one, as is The Object of My Affection is in My Reflection.

Anyway, I'm sorry you have that in your life. And you can survive it.

[gustava]

Hold up.

How come The Hazardou$ Journey$ busine$$, founded by Doug Phillip$ is still in operation?

In fact, I believe they are due to fly any day soon! December 8th I believe...

Have we found his escape route???

Also, is this a Botkin I see before me? Isaac?

hazardousjourneys.org/expeditions/international-expeditions/

I thought the Botkins were distancing themselves...

Hmmm..

A bucket list of incredible places...wasted on Doug is a tool.

[AnnieC 305]

Ok, I think this applies

20 things your abuser won't tell you

1. That time at the beginning of the relationship when I treated you like a queen/king/etc. was mostly just to lure you in.

Hello new church family. Let us love bomb you

2. I’m not in love with you. I’m in love with an idea I have in my head based on you, and also some fantasies I’ve had.

See every costume romp and every lecture and ever event and every book or recording and every...

3. You’re not crazy. I just want you to think that.

You're also not that different from "the world", I just want you to think that

4. Sometimes I get a glimpse of the reality of my behavior, but it’s too scary, so I shut it down and keep treating you the way I treat you.

And I invite all the men to my cabin in the woods to ramp it up just a little more.

5. I actually believe that it’s your job to meet my needs.

Isn't that what interns are for?

6. Your social support system terrifies me.

And feminists are evil. I give you this

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20236

Where the original post was about surviving the holidays as an abuse survivor. Not Doug directly but an excellent example

7. I hurt you because I want power and control, and I want power and control because it feels good and I’m insecure, scared, and weak.

And I am a very small man

8. I want you to believe that if you work hard enough you can fix the relationship, but that’s all a lie.

And if you work hard enough you too can have the perfect Christian family

9. I keep telling you that you disappoint me because I want to keep you unstable and on the defensive.

Church discipline is always a possibility.

10. Being alone is better than being with me.

Being out in the world, in a mainstream denomination, is better than being with me

11. I will make arguments that are actually diametrically opposed to each other if that’s what it takes to see myself as a decent reasonable person who has been burdened by you. Pointing this out will enrage me.

I think Bradrick has said or implied that this sort of thing happens

12. And even if you are crazy, that doesn’t justify any of the things I’m doing to you.

Or gay. Or a feminist. Or insufficiently Christian

13. There will be times when I’ll be genuinely kind to you and it will confuse you and when I hurt you again (which I will) it will catch you off guard, because you believed this time it would be different.

14. I want you to feel like it’s your fault when I hurt people around you, because you couldn’t stop me. It’s to make you feel powerless. That’s why I’m invading your space and going after your support system and the people you care about.

Or cutting you off from your family because they aren't Christian enough

15. Your choice to confide in me will only provide me with emotional leverage to make sure you come back to me.

Or else it will come up in a church discipline counseling secession.

16. I want to make you think everything is your fault, that you are always wrong and I am always right.

17. I want you to feel guilty and that you deserve the things I do or say to you.

Because you are not the Perfect Christian Familyâ„¢

18. I want to cut you off from the people in your life that will tell you how I treat you is abuse. If I cant cut you off I will make you question if what they say is true.

Like your insufficiently Christian relatives

19. I want you to feel like this is normal in a relationship and that it should be expected.

This is how a church should be

20. I will make you think you cant leave, that there’s no way out.

After all, you signed the contract.

--------

Sorry, I had to. The way the church abuses families and then demonizes the liberal/feminist folks who are just trying to help sticks in my craw.

Edited to add: Found here

rapeculturerealities.tumblr.com/post/67924929218/10-things-your-abuser-will-never-tell-you

[Cleopatra7]

In retrospect, it's not suprising that the Epsteins, ex-soldiers, would search out a high-maintenance church like BCA. As I recall, Jen came from an abusive background and found order and meaning through the military. The perceived disorder of a mainline church was probably what made BCA so appealing. At this point, the JG post just seems like a diversion from the real issues, unless there is more information Jen isn't sharing (which I believe to be the case). It also seems like Jen, Eston, and the other BCA refugees just wanted to a chance to bash a "mean girl" who can't respond in kind.

[Boogalou]

The discussion continues! Part 4 here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20272