The Courtship of Jessa Duggar - Part 2

[nokidsmom]

David seems flamboyant, especially by Gothard standards, but I have no idea what his sexual orientation might be. Truthfully, none of the Gothard men and boys that we have seen on 19 Kids and Counting seems very manly, despite their obsession with gender roles; they all look pale and pasty, they don't do sports, they aren't allowed to do traditional masculine professions (e.g., the military, firefighting, the police), they are not particularly successful businessmen (except for JB), many of them purposely avoid working so they can devote themselves to "ministry work," and they avoid putting themselves in character building situations. The only way for a man in Gothardland to show his manliness is to have as many children as possible, period. So if David ends up having a dozen or so children, he will be manly enough by Gothard standards. Ben actually does look more traditionally masculine than the Gothard males, possibly because the VF people make a big todo about having "manly adventures" and being rugged, but this faux manliness is about as real as the imagination fueled adventures of the Muppet Babies.

This. I am not quite sure about Mr. Pecan thief either. Yep, he's flamboyant but not sure if it's just his own over the top personality. Some of these fundie guys are soooo sheltered they have very skewed idea of what they think is hip, or cool, or clever.

And yeah, many of the fundie guys don't seem very manly either. It's all manly talk but as pointed out, many of them are not a success in business or their "supposed" professions. And there's the John Schrader types. And there's the Bradrick! fake emergency response team (who we have yet to see actually show up to an emergency).

There are exceptions, however. Stephen Hammer is military (wasn't born fundie but is now) and Chad Paine looks like he does some actual work.

[lilwriter85]

From another comment on the other thread, I'm thinking the reason the J'slave book has been delayed has to do with Jessa's courtship. So anything they say in it about dating and marriage can come with a "See, one of us has experience!"

I agree with this.

[Mela99]

I agree with this.

More reason for Boob to allow it. More money.

[FeministShrew]

Yep, I'll cut and paste it for you

Ha! I once asked my (then) pastor's wife how she talked to her kids about sex. (I was being a Good Christian Woman & seeking advice from A Godly Older Woman, lol) She looked at me like I was crazy & changed the subject. Never did get an answer out of her, but her philosophy seemed to be that sex education makes them have sex.

Her kids seemed to have figured it out on their own, though, because her older daughter had a pregnancy scare before she got married & went to a crisis pregnancy center, where they treated her like dirt. Her younger daughter got pregnant by a 22 year old at 15.

She did give advice to wives to never tell their husband no, & always wash the sheets immediately after sex. There was a joke around church that if you went into the parsonage & the dryer was running, the pastor just got laid. :ew:

[RosyDaisy]

Or they could be so horny that the fear is nonexistent.

[twinmama]

And he did later prove how much of a gentleman he can be when I managed to contract 2 UTIs in a week (honeymoon cystitis anyone?)

Oh god, having bad flashbacks to the early in sex life UTIs. Those were horrific!!!

I can't imagine people watching my first kiss. I can barely think about it without dying of embarrassment. I started laughing halfway through it because it started all nice and romantic, then my brain kicked in and was all "YOU'RE KISSING! THIS IS A KISS!" and I just dissolved into a fit of giggles. Poor guy probably thought he did something wrong. At least it wasn't sex that I was laughing at, or seeing someone naked.

[twinmama]

What's more freaky is that for people living normal lives, we don't really think much about the wedding night of people we know. It's like, who cares. You figure they already have had sex, so no big deal. Can you imagine being a fundie? You know that so many people you know are currently thinking that you are getting the proverbial cherry popped at that moment. Ick, Ick, Ick.

When I was a little kid (Catholic, though I was never into it and am now atheist), I always thought the day after my wedding would be SO awkward because my parents would know I had sex and the day of the wedding would be so awkward because we'd have to kiss in front of everyone! Funny, when it came to the wedding day, we'd been kissing in private or public for like 4 years so no biggie. And the wedding night, we'd been living together for 4 years so there had already been plenty of sex and I was way, way too exhausted for sex that night anyway.

I really can't imagine the horrible embarrassment that would come with knowing glances and smirks after a fundie wedding day. Blech. Makes my skin crawl.

[singsingsing]

I know people who waited until marriage to have sex, and no one was thinking about the fact that they'd be having sex that night during their wedding because they didn't make a big deal about it. Fundies make such a HUGE deal about even kissing that you can't NOT think about it! So much for modesty...

[jezziebezzie]

Ack! That awkward first kiss. Mine was in my backyard in 8th grade after the big School Graduation Formal. The boy I went with decided we were "going out" (whatever that meant back in the 80's) & 'kissed' me to seal the deal.

Actually what happened was he LAUNCHED himself at my face with no warning like a missile. And, like a normal person - when something is zooming towards my nose at 100 mph, I turned my head. So he wound up LICKING MY CHEEK! Ugh! 30 years & I remember it like it was yesterday! Then I got all terrified about actually kissing & I guess he got all embarrassed about what happened & he broke up with me over the phone a few days later.

Years later, I worked with someone who became Born Again into a Fundie Lite Church. She'd lived (and subsequently repented appropriately, I guess) a fairly "active & healthy" life before entering the church in her mid 20s. After a couple of years, she met someone who'd grown up in the church, strayed a few years & returned. Fallen & repented sinners. A match claimed from burning Hell-fire! Since they were now very devout, they stayed extremely chaste throughout their courtship & saved everything for their marriage...which couldn't come fast enough!

She was a sweet girl from a bad family who was just seeking love. He was a nice enough guy, but from a South American country without a lot of English skills and a very Patriarchal attitude. But she seemed content & happy about giving her life over to him. She glowed right up until the wedding day. Which I attended & literally writhed and squirmed in my chair as I listened to her pastor not just include the obey line, but literally go on for FIVE minutes talking about it! Then there was that first kiss - that incredibly awkward kiss.

She took time off for a "honeymoon" but it was to unpack & move into their new home. And from the time she returned as a married woman, she was just never the same. The light left her. The joy was gone. Some of it, I suspect was the physical aspect. She KNEW what she was missing! Imagine thinking you're getting a hot Latin lover, but getting a dud? And I fear some of it might have been verbal, possibly physical intimidation. It's been about 12 years. I believe she's still with him. Only 2 or 3 kids, Thank God - but she's expected to contribute full time income to the home, too.

[tuckerphez]

I keep getting a vision of Jim Bob standing over Ben and Jessa at the altar and announcing that this is their first kiss ... because Jim Bob would pull embarrassing shit like that.

[Mela99]

I keep getting a vision of Jim Bob standing over Ben and Jessa at the altar and announcing that this is their first kiss ... because Jim Bob would pull embarrassing shit like that.

At least he isn't displaying the marital sheets covered with virgin blood.

[eye_browz]

Have you seen this article yet? Has this been posted? "Michelle Duggar on Courtship" duggarfamily.com/content/home/33933/michelle_duggar_on_courtship

At this point, we’ve got a number of our older children that I think are ready for that next step in life. Our son John David has got a job and a home. He’s leasing that home out as rental income and putting the money aside. He’s also getting his pilot license right now and he’s been a fireman and a police officer, and now he’s a constable. So he’s definitely at that place in life where he’s ready to be a husband and a provider and he would be open to courting a young lady if he felt she would be the one for him.

Then our daughters, we’ve got Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger that are very capable of being married and having that close relationship with a special one. They manage a lot of our household; they like to do a lot of our shopping for clothes and food. That’s not a big deal for them, they love doing it anyway. But they’re good at it and good at managing things.

Read more at the source.

[anjulibai]

Have you seen this article yet? Has this been posted? "Michelle Duggar on Courtship" duggarfamily.com/content/home/33933/michelle_duggar_on_courtship

Read more at the source.

I think that's the closest we'll ever get to Michelle admitting the girls are in charge.

I still don't get what is so wrong about going off along with someone you think you might want to marry. You are going to be alone with that person quite a bit - don't you want to see what it's like before you commit?

[nokidsmom]

Have you seen this article yet? Has this been posted? "Michelle Duggar on Courtship" duggarfamily.com/content/home/33933/michelle_duggar_on_courtship

Read more at the source.

How's J'chelle gonna cope if her oldest daughters all actually do the leave and cleave? Sure there's the younger girls who will be made to step in, but not sure it's going to work out the same esp. with those howlers. J'chelle doesn't seem like one who copes with the chaos; she relies on the older girls to manage.

I hope that Jessa and Ben move away from the TTH after they get married, just as I hope the same for Jana, Jill, and Jinger. They all run the risk of continuing J'slavery to some extent if they all live close.

[Mela99]

Have you seen this article yet? Has this been posted? "Michelle Duggar on Courtship" duggarfamily.com/content/home/33933/michelle_duggar_on_courtship

Read more at the source.

What exactly do they believe a 'police officer' is? You can't be a 'police officer' here without a 4 year degree and a year in the police academy.

[soossie]

Have you seen this article yet? Has this been posted? "Michelle Duggar on Courtship" duggarfamily.com/content/home/33933/michelle_duggar_on_courtship

[sunshine]

If JD wanted to be in a courtship, he will be in a courtship. He is content in his lifestyle at this time. They should allow him to do so.

[JenniferJuniper]

How's J'chelle gonna cope if her oldest daughters all actually do the leave and cleave? Sure there's the younger girls who will be made to step in, but not sure it's going to work out the same esp. with those howlers. J'chelle doesn't seem like one who copes with the chaos; she relies on the older girls to manage.

The Howlers are growing up too. Next year those from James on up will be in their teens. One of the older daughters will probably be kept around for the foreseeable future while more domestic duties are transferred to Joy and Hannie. But the child care responsibilities are lessening each day.

Which is not to say teen boys can't be a handful, and it will be interesting to see how Michelle and Boob manage that large group of boys over the next few years, assuming they even try. My own guess is that this will be when things start to fall apart.

[freethemall]

Is this the first time they've admitted John David has his own home already? I wonder if he's actually leasing it, or lives there and just stops in when he's needed on camera. And yeah, a volunteer firefighter and volunteer cop is not the same as an actual police officer or firefighter. If he doesn't have a law enforcement certification, he's not a real cop.

It just makes me so angry to hear her talking about whether or not a group of adults is ready to date, because once they're past 18, she and Jim Bob should have no decision-making power related to their kids' love lives. I know I'm preaching to the choir, but UGH.

I think that's the closest we'll ever get to Michelle admitting the girls are in charge.

I still don't get what is so wrong about going off along with someone you think you might want to marry. You are going to be alone with that person quite a bit - don't you want to see what it's like before you commit?

[Dollypeeps]

At least he isn't displaying the marital sheets covered with virgin blood.

Dont give him any ideas now cos I wouldnt put this past him. :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew: :ew:

[ILoveJellybeans]

I can totally imagine Jimbob making sexual comments about Jessa and Ben on their wedding night, while the two of them are just stood there giving him dirty looks and wishing God would smite him with a lightning bolt.

[Dollypeeps]

Looks like JD doesnt live in the house but rents it out so he is still in that room with all his brothers now that is sad. Wouldnt be so bad if he had his own room but sharing at his age meh|!

[singsingsing]

You know what, at first I thought it kind of sucked for JD that he's got this house but he's still living in the dormitory with all the boys back at home... but if he doesn't mind it, it's probably a smart move. He doesn't 'need' to live there, and in the mean time he can make some money from the rent coming in. Better to suck it up and live at home for now, and then when he does get married, not have to rely financially on Jim Bob.

[Rescinded and Mended]

You know what, at first I thought it kind of sucked for JD that he's got this house but he's still living in the dormitory with all the boys back at home... but if he doesn't mind it, it's probably a smart move. He doesn't 'need' to live there, and in the mean time he can make some money from the rent coming in. Better to suck it up and live at home for now, and then when he does get married, not have to rely financially on Jim Bob.

I agree, far better for him to save and take the money and run. Of course, it's too bad that taking the money and running in this case would have to involve getting married when he really might not be ready to at this stage in his life...

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Not to forget..to those of us who dated or as we say here winched yer chap. That meeting, that getting to know each other, those feelings of OH yup..something is tingling right with the guy, holding hands and getting closer, anticipating the first kiss................................................................

Scratch that.

IN front of EVERYBODY you know IN CHURCH!!!!!

Oh man, this reminded me of my first kiss. I mean, it wasnt on the same level as wedding day kissing, but I was with my boyfriend crammed in the back seat of my aunt's car with my cousins and 4 other people from church in the car, and another car of church people in the car next to me, when my boyfriend decided that right that moment was the perfect moment to kiss me. I was so mortified. I cant imagine what it would be like to have your family and church congregation EXPECTED to witness your first kiss. Forget the rest of the world.