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The Courtship of Jessa Duggar - Part 2


happy atheist

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And then there are the pictures of their faces right after their first kiss. A guy I know used that shot as his profile picture on facebook for a long time. It actually was a really funny picture, but I'm so glad that moment stayed private for me.

I remember a friend of mine in highschool had a big crush on this guy. They went out, they kissed at the end of the date, and the next thing I knew, she was ringing my doorbell, and bolting past me on her way to the bathroom, shouting "ew,ew,ew,ew!" and rinsing her mouth out with toothpaste. Once she got done purging, I got the run-down on the wet, slobbery mess that was their first (and last) kiss. :D Imagine that on the altar in front of one and all and knowing that this is now your future forever.

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I know, I always think of my first kiss and cringe - it definitely wasn't something I'd want 200 people and ~a million people on TV watching. Granted we were both drunk at the time, but I think first kisses in general are awkward. I also think these poor kids must feel so let down - they build the ~first kiss~ up into such a mystical, magical thing, and then it happens - and it's just kind of eh. And then comes the wedding night. I'd be depressed for weeks after my wedding if I were a fundie.

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When my husband and I left the Catholic Church while we were dating, it still took us 5 years after that to have sex. I don't know how people go from zero to hundred in one night.

I have to ask: what did you guys do for 5 years? I thought men thought about sex all the time.

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I have to ask: what did you guys do for 5 years? I thought men thought about sex all the time.

Oral sex....for some reason that felt safe but intercourse felt like a huge step. I am still a prude. Much less now but it's still there.

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It took me around 5 years to go from kissing a boy to having sex. I can't imagine going from no touching to sex in one night. IMO it's good if it's a slow process over your teenage years.

And the pressure to have sex right then and there. I think it's good to have the fallback of it not being easy to have privacy, having parents around, etc.

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And the pressure to have sex right then and there. I think it's good to have the fallback of it not being easy to have privacy, having parents around, etc.

It took about five years for me too. I actually broke with a BF because he was pressuring me and I wasn't ready. Not a prude, but just wasn't ready and the pressure was a red flag for me too.

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I'm still a virgin at 25 because I'm just not interested in casual sex and I haven't met anyone yet I want to be in a long term relationship with. I remember in my early teens learning certain things about sex and being really freaked out. It took me a while to be comfortable with certain details of anatomy and sexual intercourse. Nowadays I'm very educated about sex and very comfortable with my own sexuality, and I still cannot imagine going from zero to sixty in one night, even if I was really into the guy. Now imagine being a totally naive fundie virgin who has been taught that sexual desire is wrong and shameful, has no idea what's really going to happen or what male anatomy even looks like, has never been allowed to explore her own body because masturbation and sexual fantasies are evil, and therefore has no idea how her body works and does not trust herself to know what feels right and what feels wrong - it's a nightmare.

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I know, I always think of my first kiss and cringe - it definitely wasn't something I'd want 200 people and ~a million people on TV watching. Granted we were both drunk at the time, but I think first kisses in general are awkward. I also think these poor kids must feel so let down - they build the ~first kiss~ up into such a mystical, magical thing, and then it happens - and it's just kind of eh. And then comes the wedding night. I'd be depressed for weeks after my wedding if I were a fundie.

If they're going to wait that long to kiss, just skip that part of the ceremony and save it for the wedding night. At least then it could be a private moment.

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Hope this isn't oversharing, but looks like the rest of youse are talking about this too...I went from my first kiss to sex in three days. I met this guy through a friend, we went to a club and he kissed me and I freaked out. It was my first kiss, and I wasn't sure I wanted it to be in a club with some randomo. Anyway, I told him to back off but did then agree to meet him the next day just so I could see what he thought was going on (I claimed to have been more drunk than I was and forgotten it...). We agreed to date (he said things in Spanish, I tried to understand and said si in random places). The next day we met up and went to a common area in his halls of residence. The make out session got too heavy for the sofa and he asked me to go upto his room. I panicked and said no - I did not want to be having sex with a guy I'd only known for 2 days. Eventually I did though, and we had sex.

Now reading back over this it reflects badly on both of us - he didn't take no to mean no, I didn't stick with my no. BUT it wasn't until several days (and a lot more sex!!) later until I had the courage to tell him that not only had he been my first time, he'd even been my first kiss. He was horrified - he said his behaviour would have been very different had he known that. And he did later prove how much of a gentleman he can be when I managed to contract 2 UTIs in a week (honeymoon cystitis anyone?)

But I don't care, I'm very happy with how all of that happened. And I'm very glad that unlike Jessa Duggar I had the option to chose my first partner (and who knows, maybe my last...we're still together) and that I knew myself and my body well enough to actually enjoy the first time I had sex. Actually, I'm very grateful I'm not a Duggar. I'm 19, so close enough to them in age to be very glad I can live my life as I chose. I just started medical school. I've discussed with my boyfriend when I'd like to get married and have kids, and how that would to some extent be based around my career. Hell, I met Mr Rojo when I moved to Spain for the summer (alone) to work and improve my Spanish. And maybe all I'll do is give him pieces of my heart, but it'll be worth every piece :)

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I can't imagine it either having to go from nothing to sex either. It scares me for these girls. It must be terrifying to make that big of a flip after exchaning vows.

I lost my V-card at 19. I knew my first really well for about two years prior to him asking me out. We went out only a few times and went through the motions pretty quickly (first date- kiss, second date- makeing out, third date- we had sex). I was able to do all of that, and enjoyed it all, but when he asked if we could be in a relationship, I said no. I realized it was the label that really fucking scared me.

At 25, I am still that way, 3 men later. I enjoy sex, though I am unable to do it with just anybody (I have to know them well as a friend) but the thought of a relationship with any of them (or anybody in general) makes me cirnge. We normally hit a wall where the fuck buddy thing isn't OK with them anymore. My current one has been struggling back and forth, but it looks like he is back, which means I will get laid again, lol.

I may be very . . .umm....sexually liberated, but I don't worry much about giving away pieces of my heart. :lol:

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I know, I always think of my first kiss and cringe - it definitely wasn't something I'd want 200 people and ~a million people on TV watching. Granted we were both drunk at the time, but I think first kisses in general are awkward. I also think these poor kids must feel so let down - they build the ~first kiss~ up into such a mystical, magical thing, and then it happens - and it's just kind of eh. And then comes the wedding night. I'd be depressed for weeks after my wedding if I were a fundie.

I am so glad my first kiss was in the dark. So bad, mostly because of me. Just yuck.

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Is there a fundie guide to explaining sex to your kids?

Yep, I'll cut and paste it for you

If you're unmarried, your body is a bad and evil thing. Don't think about it, don't talk about it, and do NOT ever touch it.

If you're married, do anything he tells you to do, with a smile.

The end

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I am so glad my first kiss was in the dark. So bad, mostly because of me. Just yuck.

The first time he tried to kiss me he missed my mouth and ended up kind of mushing his lips into my cheek. The actual kiss wasn't much of an improvement. I am glad everyone else around us was drunk because it was ridiculous. :lol:

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The first time he tried to kiss me he missed my mouth and ended up kind of mushing his lips into my cheek. The actual kiss wasn't much of an improvement. I am glad everyone else around us was drunk because it was ridiculous. :lol:

I can't forget the awkward teeth collisions, getting nose smudges on my glasses and hair in my teeth. Poor fundies, they can't even rehearse.

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I'm asexual, so I've never kissed or had sex, even though I'm 30. I just don't have any interest, so I haven't. It seems to me like these ATI/Gothard people don't consider that not everyone wants to be married, have children, or even be in a relationship. By pushing marriage and lots of children as the only acceptable lifestyle, they are forcing many people into lives of misery. There are people like me who don't want to be in a huge family or constantly surrounded by dozens of people. I think that some of the more introspective or introverted Duggars (Josiah, Jennifer, Jana) would be happier just living in a quieter home, where they could read, play the harp, or whatever without an audience. I wonder if some of these fundie young people who would identify as asexual (if they have any concept of identifying as anything other than "future mom/dad of many") simply use the energy that they would have used for pursuing individuals interests to go on mission trips or work at the Gothard centers. Are there any older, unmarried Gothardites out there?

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I'm asexual, so I've never kissed or had sex, even though I'm 30. I just don't have any interest, so I haven't. It seems to me like these ATI/Gothard people don't consider that not everyone wants to be married, have children, or even be in a relationship. By pushing marriage and lots of children as the only acceptable lifestyle, they are forcing many people into lives of misery. There are people like me who don't want to be in a huge family or constantly surrounded by dozens of people. I think that some of the more introspective or introverted Duggars (Josiah, Jennifer, Jana) would be happier just living in a quieter home, where they could read, play the harp, or whatever without an audience. I wonder if some of these fundie young people who would identify as asexual (if they have any concept of identifying as anything other than "future mom/dad of many") simply use the energy that they would have used for pursuing individuals interests to go on mission trips or work at the Gothard centers. Are there any older, unmarried Gothardites out there?

The Pecan thief seems asexual to me. What do you think?

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Are there any older, unmarried Gothardites out there?

I believe Gothard himself fits this description, interestingly enough :P

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The Pecan thief seems asexual to me. What do you think?

David seems flamboyant, especially by Gothard standards, but I have no idea what his sexual orientation might be. Truthfully, none of the Gothard men and boys that we have seen on 19 Kids and Counting seems very manly, despite their obsession with gender roles; they all look pale and pasty, they don't do sports, they aren't allowed to do traditional masculine professions (e.g., the military, firefighting, the police), they are not particularly successful businessmen (except for JB), many of them purposely avoid working so they can devote themselves to "ministry work," and they avoid putting themselves in character building situations. The only way for a man in Gothardland to show his manliness is to have as many children as possible, period. So if David ends up having a dozen or so children, he will be manly enough by Gothard standards. Ben actually does look more traditionally masculine than the Gothard males, possibly because the VF people make a big todo about having "manly adventures" and being rugged, but this faux manliness is about as real as the imagination fueled adventures of the Muppet Babies.

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I dated my first partner for months before we had PIV intercourse, and PIV intercourse was far from the first sexual thing we did. And he wasn't the first person I'd hugged, kissed, or held hands with. You've got to work your way up to it.

I could maybe see myself going from handholding to sex in one evening now, but I don't think anyone could do that as a virgin without it being awful. And dry...

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I remember reading about a couple who saved their first kiss for their wedding. (probably here) They went into the vestry while someone sang and the minister got the register ready for signing. The couple had their first kiss in private and then came out, signed the certificate and had a quick public kiss at the end of the ceremony. They said they didn't want to share their first kiss with anyone but each other but wanted to wait until marriage.

I kind of hope Jessa does this. I honestly don't want to see anyone's first kiss. It's sort of creepy.

Actually, I hope Jessa and Ben ditch the chaperones and make out.

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Mela99 wrote:

Is there a fundie guide to explaining sex to your kids?

Did anyone ever listen to the "instruction manual" Josh and Anna supposedly heard on their wedding night? Is there a title or transcript out there?

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I remember reading about a couple who saved their first kiss for their wedding. (probably here) They went into the vestry while someone sang and the minister got the register ready for signing. The couple had their first kiss in private and then came out, signed the certificate and had a quick public kiss at the end of the ceremony. They said they didn't want to share their first kiss with anyone but each other but wanted to wait until marriage.

Noah (Sanders) and Dorothy (Morton) had something similar. They had their first kiss on their wedding day but more privately behind a parasol out of everyone's sight. While I don't agree on waiting until marriage (me and Mr. Lurker would have had to wait for 10 years then :) ) this is more to my liking. Your first kiss (and definitely other "firsts" too!) is a private matter, not a public show.

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I know I read a lot of comments like Josh and Jim Bob and other fundie boys that are allowed limited contact before marriage turn into "horndogs" While this could be true of some I also think it can work the opposite way. My husband was a virgin(I was divorced). What I found was that when I had a high risk pregnancy 1 year after marriage and I was on strict bed rest and had multiple post partum surgeries my husband was fine without sex for over a year and again a few years later I had 2 heart surgeries again he had no issues with no sex. he said because he had waited so long to begin with he didn't place as high a value on sex in our relationship, because my health and our friendship an love came first. We are in our 40's an when my health is good we are just like teenagers(we got caught on parents night at the high school ditching the lecture by the boring history teacher kissing by the lockers by the Mormon principal). My husband believes that his waiting made our sex life better but also didn't make sex the focus of our relationship. I hope Jessa has found a similar young man because I can't imagine 2 virgins going fro 0 to 60 and one wanting it way more then the other. I really hope the lego guide has some part about the women's feelings.

The only couple I knew that were both virgins waited for a first kiss till the wedding waited about 2 months before having sex. They literally took it one step at a time. I guess a Duggar couldn't do this since by 3 months people are asking about babies.

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