The Courtship of Jessa Duggar - Part 2

[thoughtful]

So, on Ben's Ministry Fan Page, he posted this:

and someone in the comments posted about "Do you want to do a prayer exchange? I'm praying for , what would you like me to pray for for you?"

Now, I'm not knocking prayer (I am a Catholic, after all, which means I've got like, 3,000 saints praying for me! :lol: ). But the way this comes across, it's like prayers are the new baseball cards.

Now I'm picturing fundies hanging around, going through stacks of prayers, saying "Got it. Got it. Got it. Need it. Need it. Got it. Need it . . ."

[JellyHope]

I still feel like they don't know each other.

No! You don't say!

[realist51]

I've been reading a LOT about Doug Phillips (who, apparently, is a tool) and his going down in flames. In the course of my reading, I've had more exposure to the ideas of Vision Forum. Given that Ben professes to be involved with VF, and given what total assholes these guys seem to be (they make Jim Bob look like a decent, practical guy), I am feeling real despair on Jessa's behalf. I'm also feeling exhausted by these people. Jessa may be young, but she is over 18. She can make choices. I hope she isn't getting herself into one of those awful marriages. I've seen others here suggest that the marriage could be her way out, but how could she possibly know whether Ben is a major Kool-Aid drinker or not? They converse/flirt in BIBLE VERSES for God's sake! Which Bible verse would they use to convey the message, "I'm just putting on an act until the wedding is over, and then it's wine coolers, night school, and shorts for ME?"

[Handmaiden of Dog]

I think Ben will be inspired by Erin's wedding and will propose on Christmas day. But I hope not, they haven't been together long enough. I still feel like they don't know each other.

My guess is they won't really know each other until a year or two after they are married depending on how long they pretend to be the perfect Christian around each other. I can imagine their true characters will only come out when they get used to each other and go through some stressful times. I wonder what their first fight will be about and how they will deal with differences of opinion. Will there be cold silences? Shock and horror? Tears and regret? Please god, not fists or shoves. Those of us who have been married for a long time know that a successful marriage depends a lot on how you handle the inevitable arguments that arise. This is just one of the many things you experience with dating in the real world that Ben and Jessa will not experience with their "courting."

[Emme]

My guess is they won't really know each other until a year or two after they are married depending on how long they pretend to be the perfect Christian around each other. I can imagine their true characters will only come out when they get used to each other and go through some stressful times. I wonder what their first fight will be about and how they will deal with differences of opinion. Will there be cold silences? Shock and horror? Tears and regret? Please god, not fists or shoves. Those of us who have been married for a long time know that a successful marriage depends a lot on how you handle the inevitable arguments that arise. This is just one of the many things you experience with dating in the real world that Ben and Jessa will not experience with their "courting."

This was actually SUCH a pivotal moment in my relationship with my significant other. It told me so much (positive) info about my person. I can't imagine not having those moments until after I was married.

[twinmama]

He plays football!?! Talk about your defrauding pants! I am not a fan of the sport, but I do like the calves, muscular thighs and tight little butts that are on display in those little pants. Rawr.

As for what I knew at 18, thankfully I had that little thing called self awareness and I knew I didn't know shit. I think a lot of these fundies never gain self awareness and what they think they know at 18 is pretty much all they ever know, even at 55.

[Incognito22]

Jim bob is a prime example!

He plays football!?! Talk about your defrauding pants! I am not a fan of the sport, but I do like the calves, muscular thighs and tight little butts that are on display in those little pants. Rawr.

As for what I knew at 18, thankfully I had that little thing called self awareness and I knew I didn't know shit. I think a lot of these fundies never gain self awareness and what they think they know at 18 is pretty much all they ever know, even at 55.

[twinmama]

My guess is they won't really know each other until a year or two after they are married depending on how long they pretend to be the perfect Christian around each other.

Man, can you give birth in the same room as someone and still not be real with each other??? I guess if you're praising Jesus or whatever during contractions, but I would think child birth would make things real pretty quick and that would probably happen under 2 years into marriage.

[Scribber]

My guess is they won't really know each other until a year or two after they are married depending on how long they pretend to be the perfect Christian around each other. I can imagine their true characters will only come out when they get used to each other and go through some stressful times. I wonder what their first fight will be about and how they will deal with differences of opinion. Will there be cold silences? Shock and horror? Tears and regret? Please god, not fists or shoves. Those of us who have been married for a long time know that a successful marriage depends a lot on how you handle the inevitable arguments that arise. This is just one of the many things you experience with dating in the real world that Ben and Jessa will not experience with their "courting."

I was married young (19 - he was 22) and we've been married 12 years now... we are DEFINITELY not the same people we were back then, and it's a small miracle we're still married!! Because we were party-crazy back then, and who we became was two completely opposite people for a long time. (And because of my experience, I would encourage people to NOT get married so damn young!!)

And fights are what really teaches you about the other person - good and bad. I just can't imagine having to force yourself to hide that stuff from your spouse :( (or future spouse in the case of courtship, where you have to keep sweet and basically trick this person into taking you!)

[freejugar]

i have an idea for jessa's wedding!

[Buzzard]

Soooo... Jessa's birthday's Nov 4th. Who thinks she'll be getting a ring from Ben?

My guess is that she gets it today. They are together, TLC is there. It would not be difficult for them to pretend its her birthday and film the whole thing. Since he lives in hot springs they'd have to bring him to the TTH and set up the scene, this is much easier and cost effective.

[pega127]

i have an idea for jessa's wedding!

May be a little too fancy!

[lexiloumarie]

My guess is that she gets it today. They are together, TLC is there. It would not be difficult for them to pretend its her birthday and film the whole thing. Since he lives in hot springs they'd have to bring him to the TTH and set up the scene, this is much easier and cost effective.

And they can spin it like they were so inspired by Chad and Erin that they had to get engaged right then, on her birthday.

[Incognito22]

And they can spin it like they were so inspired by Chad and Erin that they had to get engaged right then, on her birthday.

I don't think Jim bob would even give the bates family that credit.

[sunshine]

My guess is that she gets it today. They are together, TLC is there. It would not be difficult for them to pretend its her birthday and film the whole thing. Since he lives in hot springs they'd have to bring him to the TTH and set up the scene, this is much easier and cost effective.

And they have an event tomorrow. I hope they don't get engaged on her birthday. Other than a cliche but I'm sure they could wait til his birthday.

Do they have to attend every abortion event? Couldn't the just advocate alternative choice like backing adoption programs?

[GeoBQn]

They spoke at an "Orphan Sunday" event last week and keep "praying" about adoption.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Ben proposed to Jessa at the anti-abortion event. It's the only subject he seems to care about.

[sunshine]

They spoke at an "Orphan Sunday" event last week and keep "praying" about adoption.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Ben proposed to Jessa at the anti-abortion event. It's the only subject he seems to care about.

:ew: :ew: :ew:

[Rescinded and Mended]

I was married young (19 - he was 22) and we've been married 12 years now... we are DEFINITELY not the same people we were back then, and it's a small miracle we're still married!! Because we were party-crazy back then, and who we became was two completely opposite people for a long time. (And because of my experience, I would encourage people to NOT get married so damn young!!)

And fights are what really teaches you about the other person - good and bad. I just can't imagine having to force yourself to hide that stuff from your spouse :( (or future spouse in the case of courtship, where you have to keep sweet and basically trick this person into taking you!)

I was also married young at 19, and in my case it was to an older man. We've had our share of problems over the years, but have learned to work through them, and we now enjoy a solid marriage. One of the many things I had to learn was to argue in a constructive manner. Whenever the husband and I argued early in our marriage, I didn't always handle myself in a manner that was mature and tactful. I can't always say it was the same for my husband, either, but he was almost always better about his end of the fight than I was. I had to learn, over time, that there are intelligent ways to settle disputes.

The fact that Jessa and Ben are so young and will never have had an argument, much less a difference of opinion, by the time they get married is troubling me. Is he going to listen to her and try to understand her side of things when they disagree, or will he order her to keep quietly submissive and obey him? Will it be screaming matches, tantrums, and physical violence?

I hope for Jessa's sake that he cares enough to listen to her when she's upset, and doesn't try to force his own way in the relationship all the time.

[JellyHope]

I was also married young at 19, and in my case it was to an older man. We've had our share of problems over the years, but have learned to work through them, and we now enjoy a solid marriage. One of the many things I had to learn was to argue in a constructive manner. Whenever the husband and I argued early in our marriage, I didn't always handle myself in a manner that was mature and tactful. I can't always say it was the same for my husband, either, but he was almost always better about his end of the fight than I was. I had to learn, over time, that there are intelligent ways to settle disputes.

The fact that Jessa and Ben are so young and will never have had an argument, much less a difference of opinion, by the time they get married is troubling me. Is he going to listen to her and try to understand her side of things when they disagree, or will he order her to keep quietly submissive and obey him? Will it be screaming matches, tantrums, and physical violence?

I hope for Jessa's sake that he cares enough to listen to her when she's upset, and doesn't try to force his own way in the relationship all the time.

A sustaining relationship isn't when you enjoy each other over monitored texts & bible verses. It's when you can have a big fight and work through it! I'm a big supporter of going on a "test-drive" before marriage, and I think that applies to sex AND arguments. You need to see how the other person plays before you commit for life!

[singsingsing]

Although I personally don't plan on waiting until marriage to have sex, I do think you can wait and make it work. I mean obviously a lot of people get lucky, and there are plenty of ways to establish sexual chemistry without actually having sex, though less so if you're a fundie, of course. After all, you can't test drive raising kids together before you actually do it, and people make it work. But I think when it comes to anything that's a huge part of a marriage - sex, conflict resolution, finances, long-term planning, etc. - if you're determined to not test drive that aspect before you get married, you need to be really, really committed to working through the problems that are inevitably going to arise. There has to be a level of maturity, patience, and grace involved that I'd suspect most young fundie couples don't possess.

[lizziesmom]

And they have an event tomorrow. I hope they don't get engaged on her birthday. Other than a cliche but I'm sure they could wait til his birthday.

Do they have to attend every abortion event? Couldn't the just advocate alternative choice like backing adoption programs?

They are zealots on this issue. They will attend every abortion event that they think will help like minded people get into office.

[socalrules]

I don't think you have to have sex before marriage or live together first to have a successful marriage. I don't have a problem with sex before marriage but I have no desire to live with someone I am not married to. It's just a personal preference. People have and will have successful marriages whether or not they have sex or live together before marriage. What is best for us may not be best for another.

What I do think you need is an intimate relationship with your future spouse and I do not mean that in the sexual sense. I think you need to spend time alone and be able to have real deep conversations with your significant other. I believe it is the only way to really get to know someone. You have to be able to tell your secrets and fears. How someone reacts can tell you a lot about whether you need to continue the relationship. If you can't be truly open while dating or courting, how can you do so in a marriage? Once of my big issues with courting is that there is always a third person in the relationship, so there really is no intimacy between a couple. With courting, it seems like you always have to be on. You have to be perfect so that your chaperone won't tell their parents about any potential "problems" or disagreements. Every "date" is likely scripted by both sides and neither will ever deviate from the program. I worry that courting is always just the fun safe outings or conversation with no real world experiences.

[snarkykitty]

I've spent quite a bit of time with my fundie family (who are at least as fundie as the Duggars--they've openly embraced using the "rod" in corporal punishment of their children as young as early infancy). Apparently many female fundies have a horror of nipples showing. I've seen their bras and they're all of the padded kind, for "modesty". Mind you, not the Vicky's Secret push-up-and-make-cleavage kind, but the Sears lightly-padded-for-modesty ones. Then the thick bra is covered by at least two thick layers of clothes (typically a high-neckline undershirt and a loose polo-style shirt, buttoned up to the top). Under their skirts, the younger girls are always wearing "bloomers"--those biking-short type cropped leggings, and the older girls and women are in long skirts with tan-colored pantyhose and conservative underwear underneath.

This always, always bugged me - women who wear pantyhose with underwear. It's called pantyhose because it has PANTIES/underwear included! What do you think the cotton panel on the crotch is about? (Ugh, I hate the word, panty!!!)

[treemom]

This always, always bugged me - women who wear pantyhose with underwear. It's called pantyhose because it has PANTIES/underwear included! What do you think the cotton panel on the crotch is about? (Ugh, I hate the word, panty!!!)

I always were pantyhose with underwear, but I am pretty sure none of mine have a cotton panel.

[treemom]

I was 19 when I got married and my husband was 26. It made things tough during certain parts of our marriage, we have been married 16 years with the normal highs and lows. But yes, you have to assume both of you will change a lot when you are that young because so much of your life that makes you think hasn't happened yet,

I don't regret it, but if wouldn't recommend it.