The Truth About Ruth - Part 2 - Merge

[nelliebelle1197]

I am sure the psych eval was a mistake. She overplayed her hand in the sympathy gambit; see, I am fine! I passed a psych eval!

[Palimpsest]

Steps for a legal name change in California. No psych evaluation needed.

courts.ca.gov/1051.htm

Correct. Yet another example of RR overstepping herself and getting careless. Unnecessary and inaccurate detail to tug on peoples' hearts and emotions.

I'm going to repeat what I said on the last thread, although others have made the point more eloquently: If you were taken in by RR do not feel bad, stupid, naive, gullible, or otherwise blame yourself in any way. As a scam it is a good one. If you were taken in it by it then you are a kind, compassionate, generous and all around nice person. Live and learn and perhaps be a little less trusting in the future. That is all. :group-hug:

Good scammers study their victim pool and target perceived areas of vulnerability. Oddseverything is planning to update the lest of discrepancies and post it on this thread. I suggest that everyone look down the list and check off trigger areas (areas that are likely to evoke empathy and compassion) given the FJ membership.

Now I'm going to make a semi-serious prediction. If RR is a scam her blog is going to go dark or be set to private any minute now. Some sock puppets are going to post impassioned defenses of RR here or in other fora just like the Calladus exchristian.net defense of Possummomma/PennMommy/Atheist in a Minivan link I posted on the last thread (sorry my Kindle isn't letting me post the link again). We at FJ were meanies and stalkers and made poor little RR shut down.

In a few months time when the person behind RR has time to do more research and the furor has died down . . .

"Razing Rachel" will appear. Razing Rachel will blog and post on Birth Mother and Adoptee fora. Razing Rachel will be the victim/survivor of another Patriarchal cult and have a heart-wrenching story. As a single mother, she was forced to give up her much loved baby for adoption, and she needs love, sympathy, emotional support, help with finding work/housing/medical care, etc. She'll need lots and lots of money to do all this and fight the agency/parents who ripped her baby from her arms under false pretenses, the courts, the adopting parents (who probably will not be a same sex couple), to find and get her baby back!

Fishing in another pond and preying on another set of vulnerabilities. :angry-banghead:

[treemom]

S/he's probably smart enough to use some sort of proxy IP & gmail (doesn't embed IP in header).

Actually you can get the ip from gmail if it is to another gmail address. (My husband does digital forensics and has for a decade and a half. .totally the only reason I know that.

[treemom]

I have never given money to ruth or mary. I have read her blog but like most things on the internets I just see it as entertainment. It is the internet ! The place where people from all over the world can shit talk, be trolls, and make up fake personas. On the other hand people can also use the internet to support one other, share experiences, buy from small businesses, and support charities. On a whole it is good to use extreme caution on the internet to avoid being stalked or scammed. Individuals must be responsible for themselves and the choices they make. Vicki, NLQ, and FJ are not responsible for protecting people from possible scammers or fakes. Besides even if Ruth/Mary is a fake what would be done? Would people show up at her home with pitchforks and torches ready to burn the witch :roll: ?

My favorite thing about the internet is the freedom of speech. Ruth/ Mary has the right to publish her blog regardless of the validity of it. Blog readers also have the right to not read it, and not contribute. I have been a member on a lot of other forums in the past and found the best way to get rid of scammers and trolls is to just ignore them and to not give their websites any hits. I do have sympathy for anyone who feels scammed because long ago I had to learn the hard way too. But really even if it is all fake its not like there were laws broken and Ruth/ Mary can be taken away in handcuffs. So perhaps it is time to put down the pitchforks and torches in order to take this as a lesson learned. NLQ and FJ are still valuable resources but just like the rest of the internet they are just words and images on a computer screen.

Remarkably no one has pitchforks. This is the absolute calmest thread I have ever read about situations like these.

[August]

I can't decide what's worse, truly having a past like "Ruth" or making something so crazy up and gaining the sympathy and trust of multiple people.

I'm still reserving judgement. But, with fake lives, so long as they're not harming children I figure they desperately need what they're getting. Ruth made me really think about the plight of children aged out of the foster system, and that's a pretty big service IMO.

[NurseNell]

Does one really need a psych evaluation to change ones name?

Not that I've ever heard. I changed my name. I did have to state why I wanted to change it but that was all.

[Palimpsest]

I'm still reserving judgement. But, with fake lives, so long as they're not harming children I figure they desperately need what they're getting. Ruth made me really think about the plight of children aged out of the foster system, and that's a pretty big service IMO.

I'm still using "if" it is a scam, but I'm pretty much convinced now. To the bolded, I respectfully disagree. Although RR has reached a large audience and raised consciousness about important issues, if she is a scammer then she has also done an immense disservice to genuine survivors. People will be all the more skeptical about their stories in the future.

For me, it is not just the $$. I think of these people as emotional succubi. I can have compassion for people with factitious disorders. Not so much for true psychopaths who engage in this activity, and there is a level of ... sadism ... about some of these internet scammers and the way they prey on our emotions and vulnerabilities.

They can also be destructive to fora, like FJ. I'm glad that the Admins and Curious have popped in and out of these threads to clarify that: 1. FJ does not endorse Ruth in any way, shape or form. 2. She's just another poster who has not yet violated the TOS. 3. We've checked -- no evidence of sock-puppetry by RR here yet, and so on.

But the RR discussion does have us all looking over our shoulders for sock puppets, and sites like FJ can lose credibility if they are perceived to endorse scams. I-am-not-a-lawyer, but don't I think there is any liability in allowing RR to continue to post here. There might be if she, or others, were allowed to solicit money here. Which is precisely why FJ has that rule.

[MissBitters]

I was thinking about this whole issue last night before bed and was wondering how she got away with it for so long. Part of it is the sympathy she created. I agree FJ members are very kind and should not feel ashamed about helping someone they believed needed the support. Individually, her stories have the flavor of truth to them & it isn't until you start looking at the whole do you see the flaws. There is always a risk of being scammed when you help another person but I think the possibility of making a positive change in someone's life is worth that chance. Another reason she did so well is because she was good at appealling to FJ's ego. Her stories about her escape from ATI confirmed everything we believed about the fundamentalist lifestyle. She was our insider. She also kept stringing us along with her claims that she had to keep her identity a secret since her family was close to Gothard. The emails & comments from Darth Daddy were a good example of why we hate the patriarchy system in the ATI/Vision Forum movement. Her statements about ATI were very accurate and I believe she either did some really good research or did have some personal experiance with the movement. Either way, she knew how to play us.

Of course, this also meant she overplayed her hand at times like the adoption story. If she had not claimed the baby was adopted by a lesbian couple there would've been less questions. She probably believed everyone would be so amazed with Rachel's escape & how progressive the action was that no one would question that detail. When people started calling her out, poor Rachel was sent back to the family & married off.

[ILoveJellybeans]

It makes sense if she made it up. Surely with the amount of fundie blogs we read, and how they were apparently quite well known, there would have to be someone, somewhere on one of the massive amount of fundie families who would have mentioned the death of her father, or Rachel's wedding (you think her getting pregnant, putting the baby up for adoption, coming back and marrying would be a really big scandal). Usually fundies are pretty connected with eachother, so youd think there would be at least one person who knew them enough to mention big events.

[RealityTVRN]

Actually you can get the ip from gmail if it is to another gmail address. (My husband does digital forensics and has for a decade and a half. .totally the only reason I know that.

Good to know. :)

Will PayPal close scam accounts?

[gustava]

jta4xY5iHds

Love The Big Bopper! You're awesome to have found this.

[happy atheist]

Good to know. :)

Will PayPal close scam accounts?

I think it would be hard to claim that this was a scam by legal standards, since she never actually asks for money. If enough people make complaints, they might freeze the account, though.

[formergothardite]

I think it would be hard to claim that this was a scam by legal standards, since she never actually asks for money. If enough people make complaints, they might freeze the account, though.

That is the smart part of this sort of scam, she got other people to suggest she put up a tip jar and she never flat out asked for money.

[mrs]

I apologize in advance if this information has already been posted.

In the comment sections of the blog post “Is Gothard Greedy(razingruth.blogspot.com/2012/03/email-comment-is-gothard-greedy.html)†there is a very interesting comment. Gretchen writes

Did you know there's a picture of your family in the Duggar home slideshow? It looks like an older picture but you're not in it so it can't be too old. Go look.

Anonymous replies

Which slideshow are you referring to?

Gretchen replies to Anonymous

Go to the TLC site and pick the "home tour" or whatever. There's a picture in the slideshow that has Ruth's family without Ruth but with Rachel from a few years ago. Not very smart Ruth to have friends like the Duggars and try to be anonomous. Look for the older parents with a baby and large age gap to bigger kids. That's the Razings Ruths.

I know Ruth's family in real life. They're great.

Here is the link to the "home tour" Gretchen references: tlc.howstuffworks.com/home/duggar-home-pictures.htm

It's photo 22 of 24.

[JesusFightClub]

I feel sad and happy at the same time. Sad because FJists were scammed, but happy because it shows their kind nature and friendliness.

If you're willing and ready to help others you will get caught by scams now and again, but you should still be proud of yourself for being ready to aid people in trouble.

[Mustang Sally]

This one? I can't make out any family that matches that description:

[Gertie]

That is the smart part of this sort of scam, she got other people to suggest she put up a tip jar and she never flat out asked for money.

She asks for money here:

razingruth.blogspot.de/2013/05/new-job-particulars-and-help.html

Are you begging for money, again?

I don't think I've begged before.

In this case, yes, I'm ashamed to admit that I am. I really want to make this move happen. I've been waiting for a big break like this. It's a job in my field. It's something that I can build into a self-sufficient career. I feel like not jumping on this would be wrong and I'm going to do what it takes, even if it means "begging", to try to make it work. I KNOW this is sad and pathetic and all of those words that we use to degrade people on the internet. I wouldn't blame anyone for taking some offense to my post. I never want to do it again - it's hard to ask for help and it's degrading to beg. I'm just out of options. I've been doing the best I can.

[happy atheist]

Maybe in the bottom row, below the closeup of a lady with a kid (or maybe it's 2 kids). The name looks like it starts with a T. Maybe Thomas?

[Mustang Sally]

I zoomed in the original image to try to read the name, but I can't make it out, except for the "T."

Well, wait - it does look like an "h" after the "T," and it kind of looks like it ends with an "n."

OR...I might be looking at a completely different picture than you are. I'm looking at the one in the middle of the bottom row, third from the right. It's a whole family, but you can clearly see the mom with dark hair in the center holding a small child.

[nokidsmom]

I was thinking about this whole issue last night before bed and was wondering how she got away with it for so long. Part of it is the sympathy she created. I agree FJ members are very kind and should not feel ashamed about helping someone they believed needed the support. Individually, her stories have the flavor of truth to them & it isn't until you start looking at the whole do you see the flaws. There is always a risk of being scammed when you help another person but I think the possibility of making a positive change in someone's life is worth that chance. Another reason she did so well is because she was good at appealling to FJ's ego. Her stories about her escape from ATI confirmed everything we believed about the fundamentalist lifestyle. She was our insider. She also kept stringing us along with her claims that she had to keep her identity a secret since her family was close to Gothard. The emails & comments from Darth Daddy were a good example of why we hate the patriarchy system in the ATI/Vision Forum movement. Her statements about ATI were very accurate and I believe she either did some really good research or did have some personal experiance with the movement. Either way, she knew how to play us.

Of course, this also meant she overplayed her hand at times like the adoption story. If she had not claimed the baby was adopted by a lesbian couple there would've been less questions. She probably believed everyone would be so amazed with Rachel's escape & how progressive the action was that no one would question that detail. When people started calling her out, poor Rachel was sent back to the family & married off.

+1. I did find the adoption story a bit of a stretch. The same sex couple was the "huh?" for me (the adoption by itself made sense) but hadn't followed her trials and tribulations enough to see it as one more inconsistent / impausible story in a string of what is turning out to be many. Had I followed more closely I would probably would have thought it totally fake some time ago. I did think the job / move to Chicago would settle the question of if she was real or not. She was moving to a major metro area with a large population so there was bound to be people from here or her blog wanting to meet her, be in contact with her, or assist her in some way. People who would be familiar with how things work in Chicago in terms of the job market, apartments, etc. If she was faking it there were a lot of ways where she could trip herself up.

ETA: To those who feel duped, take heart. Please do not feel bad. Even with what I posted above, I was still willing to give her the benefit of the doubt at the time and be involved in helping her.

[August]

I'm still using "if" it is a scam, but I'm pretty much convinced now. To the bolded, I respectfully disagree. Although RR has reached a large audience and raised consciousness about important issues, if she is a scammer then she has also done an immense disservice to genuine survivors. People will be all the more skeptical about their stories in the future.

For me, it is not just the $$. I think of these people as emotional succubi. I can have compassion for people with factitious disorders. Not so much for true psychopaths who engage in this activity, and there is a level of ... sadism ... about some of these internet scammers and the way they prey on our emotions and vulnerabilities.

They can also be destructive to fora, like FJ. I'm glad that the Admins and Curious have popped in and out of these threads to clarify that: 1. FJ does not endorse Ruth in any way, shape or form. 2. She's just another poster who has not yet violated the TOS. 3. We've checked -- no evidence of sock-puppetry by RR here yet, and so on.

But the RR discussion does have us all looking over our shoulders for sock puppets, and sites like FJ can lose credibility if they are perceived to endorse scams. I-am-not-a-lawyer, but don't I think there is any liability in allowing RR to continue to post here. There might be if she, or others, were allowed to solicit money here. Which is precisely why FJ has that rule.

I don't think it's healthy for anyone on the internet to be 100% trusting, so a reminder that scammers are out there is a good thing. And that not all scammers come with triplets or terminal illnesses, it coud be something as simple as claiming to know someone who works in the head office of company X and knows for sure that XYZ.

[happy atheist]

I zoomed in the original image to try to read the name, but I can't make it out, except for the "T."

Well, wait - it does look like an "h" after the "T," and it kind of looks like it ends with an "n."

OR...I might be looking at a completely different picture than you are. I'm looking at the one in the middle of the bottom row, third from the right. It's a whole family, but you can clearly see the mom with dark hair in the center holding a small child.

There's not much resolution to work with.

[August]

This

Go to the TLC site and pick the "home tour" or whatever. There's a picture in the slideshow that has Ruth's family without Ruth but with Rachel from a few years ago. Not very smart Ruth to have friends like the Duggars and try to be anonomous. Look for the older parents with a baby and large age gap to bigger kids. That's the Razings Ruths.

I know Ruth's family in real life. They're great.

Screams fake.

[Peas n carrots]

I zoomed in the original image to try to read the name, but I can't make it out, except for the "T."

Well, wait - it does look like an "h" after the "T," and it kind of looks like it ends with an "n."

OR...I might be looking at a completely different picture than you are. I'm looking at the one in the middle of the bottom row, third from the right. It's a whole family, but you can clearly see the mom with dark hair in the center holding a small child.

I was kind of wondering if it was the family in the newspaper article at the very bottom. Ruth stated there were 11 children total with her included. She has 3 older bros, and they would be in their 30's if Ruth is 29 as she has claimed to be. Do we know if her older bros have kids? I'm pretty sure the ATI bro has them.

[Mustang Sally]

I was kind of wondering if it was the family in the newspaper article at the very bottom. Ruth stated there were 11 children total with her included. She has 3 older bros, and they would be in their 30's if Ruth is 29 as she has claimed to be. Do we know if her older bros have kids? I'm pretty sure the ATI bro has them.

That's probably more likely - I didn't know how many kids total were supposed to be in the family. But I'm with August that it's most likely a fake comment from Ruth herself to lend legitimacy to the story...knowing it would be difficult if not impossible to actually identify all the different families from that one small photo.

She's probably reading this thread, pissing herself laughing, watching us try to fit the pieces together. *shakes fist*