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Your daily dose of hatred towards women:


Koala

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Women have always worked. Always. However, it seems like the biggest problem fundies have is with women being paid for their hard work.

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I have a feeling that Kelly would get along very well with Catelyn Stark, you know, if Catelyn was a real person. They both love having kids, doing what their gender assigns them, worshiping the new gods, jumping to conclusions, blaming a baby for the "sins" of "his father," and being holier than thou towards her father's ward.

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If the workforce was men-only, would there be enough men to fill every available job?

If men held every job good-bye midwives, good-bye female doctors, and good-bye the majority of nurses. "Hi Lori, I'm Bob, your nurse for the day. I'm here to put a catheter in your bladder." "Hi Kelly, I'm Dr. Dan, I'll just be checking your cervix to see how dilated you are." Right, when pigs fly. The majority of these women do not want the menz doctor or nurses.

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I am a physician. I've gone through 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, 3 years of residency and 4 years of fellowship. I've been in academic practice for 20 years. I run large multi-center clinical trials. I teach medical students, residents and fellows. To be completely honest, there are very few men who could do what I do and they all already have jobs.

The truth is that the workers we "import" into the US are, by a very large margin, skilled workers. People who have skillsets that we don't teach particularly well here. This is where our public schools and universities should be stepping in. Unfortunately the graduates of the SOTDRT will not be particularly helpful in this regard.

I've worked with many physicians like you docmom, there are just as many male doctors doing similar work as female doctors. Am I missing something?

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Surely Kelly would let welfare moms, immigrants and non whites at least do women's work right? Someone has to clean hotel rooms and serve your food. With all these newly available jobs I'm sure the men won't want to do these lowly service jobs.

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Shorter Kelly Crawford: "I couldn't hack it in the workplace, so no woman should work outside the home."

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How silly of me. I keep forgetting that I have to sacrifice my happiness so all the manly men can be happy.

I think she even said men's happiness was not important (after all, they'd like to go play golf all the time?) So in her view, women want to work to be happy and men don't want to work to be happy, but God wants no one to be happy so women can't work and men have to? What an odd concept on so many levels.

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People who don't understand basic economics shouldn't even try to talk about the topic. Nobody steals jobs from anyone. It's not a zero-sum game where there are a set number of jobs that everyone competes for. The economy does not work that way!

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Women have always worked. Always. However, it seems like the biggest problem fundies have is with women being paid for their hard work.

I think there's definitely an element of classism to Kelly's sentiment. There will always be women who work, but folks like Kelly can look down on them because "that poor thing just has to work, bless her heart." Or at least that's how it seems to go on the fundie farms I know IRL.

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I've worked with many physicians like you docmom, there are just as many male doctors doing similar work as female doctors. Am I missing something?

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying NurseNell. My point is not that only women can do my job but that the job I do is very highly specialized and requires a lot of training. It is not a job that the average unemployed fundie male could take on were I to quit to make Kelly happy. Also I doubt you have worked with many physicians just like me as what I do is very highly specialized. Not tooting my own horn. Merely pointing out that there are few male physicians who are trained to do what I do and, as I pointed out, they all have jobs already.

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If men held every job good-bye midwives, good-bye female doctors, and good-bye the majority of nurses. "Hi Lori, I'm Bob, your nurse for the day. I'm here to put a catheter in your bladder." "Hi Kelly, I'm Dr. Dan, I'll just be checking your cervix to see how dilated you are." Right, when pigs fly. The majority of these women do not want the menz doctor or nurses.

Luckily, "these" women constitute a teeny portion of the population. I have no problem going to a male OB/GYN, and I have actually worked with a male nurse named Bob. If you want to believe the world of tv, men can do anything a woman can do. On The Office, when Pam gave birth to her first baby, the lactation consultant was a guy. And on The Mindy Project, the OB/GYN group is always competing with a male midwife group.

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I'm not entirely sure what you're saying NurseNell. My point is not that only women can do my job but that the job I do is very highly specialized and requires a lot of training. It is not a job that the average unemployed fundie male could take on were I to quit to make Kelly happy. Also I doubt you have worked with many physicians just like me as what I do is very highly specialized. Not tooting my own horn. Merely pointing out that there are few male physicians who are trained to do what I do and, as I pointed out, they all have jobs already.

I thought you were saying that women are more qualified and able to do what you do. I'm aware your average fundie male who isn't a physician could do it. But medicine is full of both female and male doctors who have 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, 3,4,5 years of residency, followed by several years of fellowship who do highly skilled research. Ocular melanoma research has only a few highly trained and educated physicians engaged in research, their training was as vigorous as yours, perhaps in a different field. A friend who is a M.D. and PhD is involved in cutting edge breast cancer research. A classmate who is a M.D. with a PhD in ceramic engineering has done major research in joint replacements, written the textbooks used in most programs, and holds patents on artificial joints. So while not knowing your exact highly specialized job in medicine there are thousands of similarly educated doctors in a hundred other medical fields, and they can be male or female. Medicine has hundreds of subspecialties as you know.

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I think there's definitely an element of classism to Kelly's sentiment. There will always be women who work, but folks like Kelly can look down on them because "that poor thing just has to work, bless her heart." Or at least that's how it seems to go on the fundie farms I know IRL.

To that, I have to laugh. I don't think she quite gets that some women actually like to work. Maybe she does and that's why she seems to hold a ton of resentment towards women doing what she knows she can do, but is not allowed.

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Here's what kills me about women like this.

You aren't supposed to use birth control. You aren't supposed to work. You aren't supposed to accept gov. assistance.

That leaves you with only a couple of options:

1. Total dependence on a man who may or may not be willing/able to work to support an ever growing herd of children

2. Being willing to watch your kids go without the basics by doing things like feeding a family of 11 a casserole that isn't really enough to feed a family of 4.

Some of us aren't willing to do either of those things.

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Kelly needs to realize that not all of us can live off the largesse of our parents and grift off of our leg humpers.

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She does realize that the number/types of jobs are not steady, right? The economy and needs of people do change so...yeah. Plus, there are female dominated fields where not a lot of men would want to fill those crucial roles. Hey, but what do I know my dad works in a female dominated profession so clearly I was brought up wrong, except for the fact that my mother worked in an appropriate profession for a woman and then stayed home. There may be hope for me!

And oh yeah, she's clearly lives in another world if she thinks that woman *always* stayed at home.

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I will tell you exactly what the US would look like if most women did not work- We would become the midpoint between Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia.

Pass.

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Shorter Kelly Crawford: "I couldn't hack it in the workplace, so no woman should work outside the home."

Or..."I don't want to work and I will see my kids go hungry before I get a job. I also don't want people to think I'm a lazy asshole, so if all the other women would quit their jobs and go home, that would be awesome."

I work from home so I'm home with my kiddo except when she's at Sodom & Gomorrah elementary during the day. I do everything that Kelly does except home school (but c'mon, Kelly's SODRT ain't exactly churning out a bunch of Rhodes Scholars). So what would Kelly have me do? Should I give up my income, my health insurance, and my 401k and try to scrape by on my monthly child support payments until I can find someone to marry just so some entitled patriarse like Mr. Kelly can have my job?

Um, no.

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AAAah!

I did not mean to like jmaries post. I was going to quote it and snark on it. Darn teeny phone.

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She is an idiot.

I really wish that there were more men in my workplace. Really, I do. Many of my male clients would really benefit from having male staff members around to connect with and discuss sensitive topics with, but for every male staff there are probably five female staff. I've helped HR out a lot at my agency with hiring and males just don't apply as frequently to work in this area.

The agency I work for now is currently hiring, and while I CONSTANTLY hear the local fundie and MRA-types bitching about how feminism took all their job prospects...I don't see many men walking through the doors at my job asking for an application. Which leads me to believe that the people who gripe about feminists taking their jobs are really just lazy or picky.

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Hahahahahaha.

It's comical how little these idiots know about the workplace. Does she really think men are falling over themselves to be office juniors, teaching assistants, lollipop men, school dinner assistants, beauticians etc?

Having had a couple of these jobs (unsurprisingly, not beautician...) I can tell you that the men *hate* it. They check their watches ostentatiously in meetings, impatient for the day when they will be the ones saying "20 copies of this for the ABC meeting at 10am today" instead of the ones making the 20 copies (for the next 40 years). They won't sit with the admin staffers at lunch, because inferiority cooties. They wear the sharpest suits they can afford on their measly pay and remind everyone, continually, of their qualifications and how they are destined for better things.

Whither Agnes, backbone of the office for countless years with never a promotion to show for it, 4 children and 10 grandchildren and who can always be relied on to know the foibles of everyone from the CEO to Dave in accounts and how best to handle them (as well as where the Tipp-ex is kept and how to work the photocopier)? Replaced by Alistair, fresh from his 2.1 in Law and impatiently tapping his feet to be climbing the greasy pole. Does he care that Jim only works Tuesdays and Thursdays so you shouldn't book him in for a Wednesday meeting or that you can earn Shaoib in finance's endless respect (and he controls the budget...) by sitting with him for a while and chatting about golf? No, he does not. His eyes are fixed on the hills, or in this case the corner office and the long lunch. Extra pay doesn't make up for the title "Admin Assistant".

I'm not saying I approve of this state of affairs. I don't. It is, however, a dual result of capitalism and the patriarchy, which these fools champion.

So, good luck with your super-efficient all male economy in advanced capitalism *sniggers behind hand*

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It seems like she is saying "If only all women would quit work then my husband's salary with increase. It's your fault that we are poor". If salaries "rocket" then the cost of all goods will also increase. Just look up the percentage of income that is being spent on food historically. In the 1930's, before women were in the workplace, it was about 25% and now it is only about 8%. I know that decreased family size as well as increased income affects the percentage but it still doesn't add up. Goods were relatively more expensive back then. Don't think that the business owner/shareholders will just say "Oh well, we'll have to take a cut" It just doesn't work that way.

I work in a male dominated world in the mining industry as a geologist and right now there is more jobs than there are people. If the females left the workplace the companies would really suffer.

Kelly is so simple minded

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I always just have to laugh when I read these fundie ladies talking about how obviously women aren't meant for the workplace because they tire so easily or can't think logically or whatever. Um, maybe it's just you, dear. But of course they can't be proven wrong, because when you show them female lawyers, doctors, professors, judges, etc., they just claim that those are overly masculinized, "unnatural" women.

ETA: I also never understand how a simple-minded creature who is weak and tires easily is supposed to birth and take care of and educate multiple kids. Doing all that for upwards of 10 sounds WAAAAAAY more difficult to me than any of the jobs I mentioned above.

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They've been making that tired argument - that women should not work so men with families can have jobs - since the Great Depression. (Yes, there were women in the workforce then, for a lot of the same reasons as now.)

It's still not true.

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Kelly's such an idiot! Love how she creates a post based on the opinion of a man who is clearly a misogynist (save some brain cells and don't read the comments to his "exposé on "Women, Work, & Freedom") as if it was some well-researched journalism. Who the hell is Nicholas Farrell?! She's so eager to jump on his anti-feminist bandwagon that I'm sure she probably didn't even read through his site (let alone the article) to really get an understanding of who this guy and his ilk are.

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