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debrand

"Pretty is Dying"

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.ncregister.com/blog/pat-archbold/the-death-of-pretty

Pretty, pretty is dying.

No, it isn't.

Once upon a time, women wanted to project an innocence.

Once upon a time, women had few choices beyond acquiring and keeping a mate. Thankfully, I have many, many choices. I don't have to pretend that I am something I am not and I haven't been sexually innocent in a long, long time

And that combination of beauty and innocence is what I define as pretty.

Again, I am an adult woman who lost her virginity at 18. At what point can I be judged for my character, my kindness or my intelligence and not what I've been doing with my vagina.

Young women today do not seem to aspire to pretty, they prefer to be regarded as hot.

Could men not tell women what we are thinking?

Hotness is a consumable. A consumable that consumes as it is consumed but brings no warmth.

So, being sexual will destroy a woman, is that really what the author means to say?

It is ironic that 40 years of women’s liberation has succeeded only in turning women into a commodity. Something to be used up and thrown out.

Where is he coming up with this?

Once upon a time you would hear girls talk about kind of women men date and the kind they marry. You don’t hear things like that anymore

I am 46 and I would much rather my daughters grow up in a world where there aren't 'good' girls and 'bad' girls. No, we do not want to go back to those times. My mother used to give me the 'Don't buy the cow when you get the mil free." spiel. It was very dehumanizing and soul crushing to hear that my value to half of society involved something as stupid as my innocence/hymen.

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I just love it when teenage know-it-alls know it all - especially how people used to live in the past. Methinks they confuse watching Pride and Prejudice mini-series with actual historical research.

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I hate to break it to this guy, but it wasn't "women's liberation" that turned women into commodities.

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Actually one of the big things about the sexual revolution was the change in women's fashion - before, teenage girls wanted to dress like their mothers, but then women ended up wanting to dress like their daughters. The 'innocent' look was extremely fashionable.

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I love how his example for "pretty" (beauty and innocence) is Taylor Swift, who cranks through men like pantyhose.

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That has to have been the stupidest thing I have ever read.

And I read Jessica's microwave post.

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At what point can I be judged for my character, my kindness or my intelligence and not what I've been doing with my vagina.

Preach it, debrand.

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I love how his example for "pretty" (beauty and innocence) is Taylor Swift, who cranks through men like pantyhose.

... and allegedly broke up with that teenybopper British guy because he was uncircumcised. True innocence right there. :roll:

I also like that he seems to have missed how sexualized and commercialized the concept of "innocence" is, from the Lolita clothing style to all the "innocent" babydolls at Victoria's Secret to completely bare waxing trends made popular by the porn industry.

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And I should care what Pat Archbold thinks about my looks because why? (Snark directed at Archbold's dumbcluckitude, not at debrand fo sharing it, of course.)

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I think he's lamenting the fact that goodness, for most of us, is no longer defined as 'not-having-sex' plus 'going-to-church'. Plus what he seems to be saying here is that the decline of hypocrisy is a bad thing?!

My teenagers want to be good people - at least some of the time :lol: They want to be good friends, to be kind to other people regardless of race / religion / sexuality etc. They raise money to help kids in developing countries. Churches really won't help them with that, and so they're not really interested in religion.

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I think he's lamenting the fact that goodness, for most of us, is no longer defined as 'not-having-sex' plus 'going-to-church'. Plus what he seems to be saying here is that the decline of hypocrisy is a bad thing?!

My teenagers want to be good people - at least some of the time :lol: They want to be good friends, to be kind to other people regardless of race / religion / sexuality etc. They raise money to help kids in developing countries. Churches really won't help them with that, and so they're not really interested in religion.

He also defined it as innocence plus beauty. I am unusual, I think, in that I don't think that the act of sex is moral or immoral. A person can have hundreds of lovers and still be a kind, compassionate person while another can be a virgin and be a horrible, nasty jerk. There are many moral issues surrounding sexual activity like honesty and respecting others. If you take a vow to be faithful, you should be faithful and you shouldn't lie or trick someone into sleeping with you.

Taylor Swift is not physically innocent. I think that she gives off the illusion of innocence to the writer because she doesn't show a lot of skin. Some men like a woman who dresses in a certain way. That is all right but it isn't their innocence that it attractive.It is their personal style of clothing and makeup that appeals to the man

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I would rather my daughters care more about being nice, respectful, compassionate people rather than being pretty, innocent or hot.

And I think Of a Single Heart has shown us that being a innocent virgin doesn't automatically make one a good person.

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I dont think pretty is about innocence though, I would say more cute would be defined in that way.

Anyone can be pretty, whether theyre a child, teenager, adult, virgin, not a virgin, prostitute, frumper wearer, miniskirt wearer...

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I dont think pretty is about innocence though, I would say more cute would be defined in that way.

Anyone can be pretty, whether theyre a child, teenager, adult, virgin, not a virgin, prostitute, frumper wearer, miniskirt wearer...

I agree and it is what went through my mind when I read the article. Pretty is usually physical. A person can be pretty and still be a horrible person. It is odd that the author's definition of pretty includes innocence. By his definition most women beyond a certain age are not pretty.

Fundamentalism must be very harmful for older women's self esteem. If you are over a certain age, chances are you will no longer be naive and will probably have some sexual experience. You probably can't have kids either. All of these things tend to go into the value that fundies place on women.

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Pretty isn't a commodity?

Hey, asshat, everything physical fades. Your looks, your athletic prowess, your memory, everything fades. The only left in the end is how you treated people. You might want to get on that.

I went looking for an eyerolling smilie, but then this happened. :character-mario:

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This stuff messes with young women on so many levels. I have known more than one fundy-lite woman who was vaguely upset about getting married because of being fed so much crap about being special for being "pure" and about purity making women more beautiful...getting married meant having sex which meant losing some of this beauty and specialness. One of them was also upset about giving up her purity ring because it was a nice ring with a gemstone that she loved but having sex on her honeymoon meant she was never allowed to wear it again. My question "Why not? It's just a sapphire ring." But of course I didn't understand the deep meaning. Needless to say, brides having feelings like this does not lend itself to a newlywed couple establishing a healthy and fulfilling sex life at all.

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This stuff messes with young women on so many levels. I have known more than one fundy-lite woman who was vaguely upset about getting married because of being fed so much crap about being special for being "pure" and about purity making women more beautiful...getting married meant having sex which meant losing some of this beauty and specialness. One of them was also upset about giving up her purity ring because it was a nice ring with a gemstone that she loved but having sex on her honeymoon meant she was never allowed to wear it again. My question "Why not? It's just a sapphire ring." But of course I didn't understand the deep meaning. Needless to say, brides having feelings like this does not lend itself to a newlywed couple establishing a healthy and fulfilling sex life at all.

The word itself bothers me. "Pure"? So what am I? Polluted? Diseased, disgusting, loathesome, revolting, dirty?

Those are not words that apply to a human being unless they have done something truly vile, like molesting children or participating in genocide. Having sex is not in the same category.

Perspective, get some. :chi-yes:

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The word itself bothers me. "Pure"? So what am I? Polluted? Diseased, disgusting, loathesome, revolting, dirty?

Those are not words that apply to a human being unless they have done something truly vile, like molesting children or participating in genocide. Having sex is not in the same category.

Perspective, get some. :chi-yes:

Exactly. I had a long conversation long ago with a very close friend raised in this culture who was having these reservations about marriage. She was literally upset about the prospect of "becoming impure" by consummating her marriage. I went to Catholic schools where we were taught about "chastity" not "purity" and the concept of chastity is that sexuality is used appropriately --not completely eschewed-- and that one can be chaste in marriage (or any relationship as one renegade nun noted) by having a healthy sex life, respecting your spouse's boundaries (i.e. no force, no shaming, no manipulation) and maintaining fidelity. I told her those things are just as "pure" as virginity. Unfortunately, the idea of a healthy sexuality is not taught to people in these movements. Parents and churches are so terrified of their kids (even the adult ones) having sex before marriage that they make all sexuality seem sinful. This same woman told me she was feeling very guilty about being attracted to her fiance. I said, "well, if you aren't attracted to him, you shouldn't be marrying him." Her answer: "But it is sinful to be attracted to him before we are actually married". :angry-banghead:

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The fact that Archbold uses girls and women interchangeably should tell you all you need to know about his mindset. :roll:

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.ncregister.com/blog/pat-archbold/the-death-of-pretty

No, it isn't.

Once upon a time, women had few choices beyond acquiring and keeping a mate. Thankfully, I have many, many choices. I don't have to pretend that I am something I am not and I haven't been sexually innocent in a long, long time

Again, I am an adult woman who lost her virginity at 18. At what point can I be judged for my character, my kindness or my intelligence and not what I've been doing with my vagina.

Could men not tell women what we are thinking?

So, being sexual will destroy a woman, is that really what the author means to say?

Where is he coming up with this?

I am 46 and I would much rather my daughters grow up in a world where there aren't 'good' girls and 'bad' girls. No, we do not want to go back to those times. My mother used to give me the 'Don't buy the cow when you get the mil free." spiel. It was very dehumanizing and soul crushing to hear that my value to half of society involved something as stupid as my innocence/hymen.

Noooooo, don't tell me this is from the National Catholic Register.

I have a few more conservative Catholic fb friends who like to post articles/blog pot from there. They (NCR) seem to be kind of a mixed bag, but...fundie Catholics are the worst kinds of fundies in some ways. :? . Or maybe that's just because I come from a Catholic background myself.

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I never, ever understood how that thing of of not being sexually attracted to someone before marriage was supposed to work. People just don't become sexually attracted to one another after they say "I do". It doesn't work that way. The sexual attraction needs to come way before the vows. Hell, before they ever get serious.

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I never, ever understood how that thing of of not being sexually attracted to someone before marriage was supposed to work. People just don't become sexually attracted to one another after they say "I do". It doesn't work that way. The sexual attraction needs to come way before the vows. Hell, before they ever get serious.

I've had male friends who on paper should have been perfect for me but sexual attraction was zero.

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This stuff messes with young women on so many levels. I have known more than one fundy-lite woman who was vaguely upset about getting married because of being fed so much crap about being special for being "pure" and about purity making women more beautiful...getting married meant having sex which meant losing some of this beauty and specialness. One of them was also upset about giving up her purity ring because it was a nice ring with a gemstone that she loved but having sex on her honeymoon meant she was never allowed to wear it again. My question "Why not? It's just a sapphire ring." But of course I didn't understand the deep meaning. Needless to say, brides having feelings like this does not lend itself to a newlywed couple establishing a healthy and fulfilling sex life at all.

Oh, god.... :violin: so her parents have her convinced that, sex after marriage makes her impure?

Couldn't she wear it on her right hand to prove she is still pure and sleeps only with her husband?

Her parents deserve a good kicking, and a certain amount of public ridicule.

No wonder we have so many (old maids- :popcorn: ) eternally pure daughters--they are horrified of becoming defiled.

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