Joseph Duggar at ALERT

[SamuraiKatz]

Have a read: iluvgod.wordpress.com/tag/rhema/

Thanks. That young lady is all kinds of messed up.

[ILoveJellybeans]

And that's the way this racket works. You rope them in with lots of fun, innocent, irresistible activities that almost all young children would enjoy. They make friends, they get positive feedback on how great they're doing, and they feel happy about it. Ever so slowly, the ick-factor elements are introduced as they get older, but still with lots of fun and fellowship, so it gets normalized. By the time they're young adults, the whole thing is acceptable to them because they've been indoctrinated since early childhood.

Yeah, thats so true, they have a way of making things sound totally harmless at first, then gradually getting to the worst part.

Like Journey to the Heart, they made that sound so harmless, like some kind of Christian summer camp, but if you look further into what it does, theres the brainwashing and guilting vulnerable girls into being extra Godly.

[fauxmenno]

So basically, ALERT and JTTH are ways of training young men and women into being the perfect Gothard-approved version of their sexes? Of course all men must be tough and "manly" so ALERT teaches them to just suck it up and be some sort of Godly he-men and JTTH teaches girls to be meek and mild and subservient and sweet.

[tabitha2]

they have alert like programs for girls also.

[JenniferJuniper]

they have alert like programs for girls also.

Which of course includes "Character Training in punctuality, humility, orderliness, deference." :roll:

[flyawaystray]

I feel bad for all the brainwashed men and women. The Duggar girls have no real skills. Popping out babies and having to cater to every whim must be sooooo draining and stressful.

[roddma]

An additional thought. These Alert boot camps cost $3500 plus per session. There are three levels...That's almost 11 grand per kid plus equipment and other expenses. So Jim Bob is going to shell out about $100K all told if all the J'Boys go to Gothard boot camp? That's a whole frickin' lot of money for not a lot of return.

How do poorer ATI families afford this stuff?

Would be cheaper and more useful to let the kid join the National Guard or something.

I doubt the National Guard would be allowed since it is secular with people from all different backgrounds.

It seems to me the Fundies are obsessed about raisng unspoiled children with a servant's heart. What parent' wouldn't, but they sure go about it wrong. Do they think these stern regimens are the cure? Their way can do more harm than good . Personally, I would rather see a few spoiled brats than a 100 brainwashed attention deprived, robotic kids.

[roddma]

An additional thought. These Alert boot camps cost $3500 plus per session. There are three levels...That's almost 11 grand per kid plus equipment and other expenses. So Jim Bob is going to shell out about $100K all told if all the J'Boys go to Gothard boot camp? That's a whole frickin' lot of money for not a lot of return.

How do poorer ATI families afford this stuff?

Would be cheaper and more useful to let the kid join the National Guard or something.

[flyawaystray]

I'm hoping for one of them to break free. I don't think there's a good chance of that happening, but you never know.

[Inky]

I'm new here, so forgive me if this question has already been asked, but what exactly is the intended purpose of all this pseudo-military training? What do Gothard and ATI followers hope to ultimately accomplish with it?

Free Joseph.

Well, I think one of the purposes is to break the will of the child (even an 18 year old child). Until these boys actually meet a girl and marry, they are under their parents (and Bill Gothards) thumb, and the Alert no doubt breaks their will to act in an "ungodly" manner.

[CruitLvr]

I wonder the same thing, how come none of the TLC crew have the decency to help any. Boot camp is given as a penalty to those in the secular world for breaking the law, basically Joseph is being treated like a prisoner and the saddest thing is that they all do not seem to know they are old enough to break free.

I agree. I realize they aren't "allowed" to help (as it could cost them their jobs), but I do have to wonder why no one seems to have said anything (well, that we know of) through the years. I'd never wish any real "scandal" on the Duggars per se, but Luvchild is right - the ratings would go through the roof if one of them left on their own.

[flyawaystray]

Right? If TLC showed the girls and guys doing stuff on their own, I bet more people would watch.

[gustava]

So basically, ALERT and JTTH are ways of training young men and women into being the perfect Gothard-approved version of their sexes? Of course all men must be tough and "manly" so ALERT teaches them to just suck it up and be some sort of Godly he-men and JTTH teaches girls to be meek and mild and subservient and sweet.

Well said.

[FloraDoraDolly]

ALERT is the approved form of the "military" for young men so minded, but who can't be under a non-Christian leader (or female) leader. They memorize a huge chunk of the Bible too.

Too bad Joseph didn't run off and join the real Army.

[socalrules]

$3,500 to play Army? For that amount, here in California, that is a whole year's tuition and books at a community college. I cannot believe how Mr. buy used and save the difference wastes so much money on Alert. A part of wonders if the Duggars send their kids to Alert and Journey of the Heart to "encourage" others to go. On second thought, I bet the Duggars don't pay anything since they can bring publicity to all things Gothard.

[snarkyjan]

I agree. I realize they aren't "allowed" to help (as it could cost them their jobs), but I do have to wonder why no one seems to have said anything (well, that we know of) through the years. I'd never wish any real "scandal" on the Duggars per se, but Luvchild is right - the ratings would go through the roof if one of them left on their own.

As far as anyone on the film crew saying anything, they probably had to sign non-disclosure agreements before they were allowed to participate. But it's possible there will be a slew of tell-alls several years after the show is off the air.

[Miggy]

$3,500 to play Army? For that amount, here in California, that is a whole year's tuition and books at a community college. I cannot believe how Mr. buy used and save the difference wastes so much money on Alert. A part of wonders if the Duggars send their kids to Alert and Journey of the Heart to "encourage" others to go. On second thought, I bet the Duggars don't pay anything since they can bring publicity to all things Gothard.

This is a really good point socalrules.

Jim Bob has talked about how college can be a waste of time and money because some students don't end up working in the industry they have trained for. IIRC this was part of his reasoning for Jill training as a doula first rather than going to college, as it would give her a chance to see if she really liked midwifery. (I know he has many other arguments against college but this reason really bothered me. I didn't end up working in the industry I initially trained for but I still don't consider that degree a waste of time.) How can college be a waste of time and money but a 2 month Alert course that costs $3500 is not?

Joseph has been one of my favourite Duggars ever since the race episode. Jim Bob thought he would be so cool and race the 1km walk and Joseph beat him. Go Joseph!

[freethemall]

Have a read: iluvgod.wordpress.com/tag/rhema/

Well that girl seems crazy all on her own. The fasting brings up red flags but overall this does not seem nearly as bad as ALERT. I wonder if depends on the girl and how into the party line they already are. I can see this being punishment for someone like Jinger or Joy (has she been to one yet? if not then probably soon, right?) while someone like Jill or Priscilla would see it as a dream vacation.

[flyawaystray]

It seems like it's too much effort and work to keep the kids they way they want them to. It's easier to have the kids be their natural selves. But of course, in the fundie circle, it's bad to think for yourself.

[cindyluvs24]

My God, my son is the same age and he and his friends are figuring out where to go to college in the Fall, what courses to take, etc. Those poor Duggar kids. When they find out what their parents have done to them, they will be furious.

[Blessing]

ALERT stands for Air Land Emergency Response Team. They often help out in disaster areas and are certified in CPR, Lifeguarding, etc. in my opinion, Joseph probably wasn't forced to go, but went willingly. As a child, I would go on any type of church trip, even if just to get away from my parents for a little bit. I have a friend who was in alert for a while, and he really enjoyed the experience, and eventually went into the air force. I have been to the alert academy in big sandy many times, and it is a beautiful facility. Some of the people who actually reside there are a little more laid back, and the women even wear pants when they are not on campus. I think it was a way for Joseph to escape the nest for a little while.

[Anxious Girl]

ALERT stands for Air Land Emergency Response Team. They often help out in disaster areas and are certified in CPR, Lifeguarding, etc. in my opinion, Joseph probably wasn't forced to go, but went willingly. As a child, I would go on any type of church trip, even if just to get away from my parents for a little bit. I have a friend who was in alert for a while, and he really enjoyed the experience, and eventually went into the air force. I have been to the alert academy in big sandy many times, and it is a beautiful facility. Some of the people who actually reside there are a little more laid back, and the women even wear pants when they are not on campus. I think it was a way for Joseph to escape the nest for a little while.

So it's fundie-lite preparing fundies for bringing dominionism into the military? That's what it sounds like.

[YPestis]

What's the point of ALERT? To teach boys self-discipline? It sounds like a bunch of parents who want to give their boys the military experience but replace female CO's with fundie-Jesus. I don't see how any of this prepares boys to enter the "real world", not even the military.

Fundies often deride public schools for being an unnatural environment where people are segregated by age and skill levels (although I'd argue that's the easiest way to teach in a group). And yet, they think boys placed in a hyper-Jesus environment devoid of any females authority figures or non-fundies is good preparation for the real world? Forget the military, a males-only, fundies-only environment will not prepare you anything but working for ATI. Think of the cultural shock if any of these boys entered the military and had to salute a female officer? Or had to work with a gay soldier? Or a nonChristian? Hey, at least at my ebil public school, I got used to working with people different from me.

[gustava]

ALERT stands for Air Land Emergency Response Team. They often help out in disaster areas and are certified in CPR, Lifeguarding, etc. in my opinion, Joseph probably wasn't forced to go, but went willingly. As a child, I would go on any type of church trip, even if just to get away from my parents for a little bit. I have a friend who was in alert for a while, and he really enjoyed the experience, and eventually went into the air force. I have been to the alert academy in big sandy many times, and it is a beautiful facility. Some of the people who actually reside there are a little more laid back, and the women even wear pants when they are not on campus. I think it was a way for Joseph to escape the nest for a little while.

Why were you there?

[Blessing]

Why were you there?

My parents took us for a "meet the duggars" night once during an ATI conference....we weren't ATI, but my parents leaned in that direction. We also went a few times when a guy was showing some horse tricks, And our church hosted a few banquets/parties there.