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Men's Right Movement


YPestis

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I honestly don't know much about MRAs, so this has been an interesting thread. Someone tried to start an MRA group on my campus awhile ago, but it was a flop. I never saw them do much more than concern troll, but I've no doubt they would have drawn the more vile types if their thing had taken off. The only person I've personally known who had views anything like those of an MRA was vehemently anti-abortion and anti-gay, and I've seen him share Catholic "news" stories about how oppressed straight people are. I think MRA ideas tie in with antiquated values like those of the Catholic church a lot more than the MRAs saying "we're all about gender equality!!!" would like to admit.

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What I've seen so far in my (admittedly) minor excursions into these sites (basically on two occasions--both prompted by recent threads here), is that much of their anger/ideology comes totally from emotional realms. Isn't most of it whinging because they aren't alphas, and alphas are hogging up all the most desirable women, so these betas are now butthurt that they're missing out and so hate all those damned whores? If that's not emotional-based thinking, I don't know what is.

BTW: What's this red pill blue pill thing that I keep seeing referenced on some of these sites?

And...I just can't even with some of what is being said. Really? Divide the country into "zones": some for fat women, some for sluts (but it seems like in their minds that's a redundant term, since all women are sluts), some for athletic women, and some for women who sign on to having their lives dictated by these slimeball menz? WTF?!?

They come from the Matrix movie. The blue pill stands for ignorance and the red pill is reality. They are saying that they see reality and everyone else is ignorant.

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They come from the Matrix movie. The blue pill stands for ignorance and the red pill is reality. They are saying that they see reality and everyone else is ignorant.

Thanks, Dairyfreelife! I knew it was from The Matrix, but thought they meant something else by it. Thanks for clarifying.

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Rosa, your anecdote seems to suggest (I know, *real* conjecture here on my part!) that there might be a connection between certain MRA's and certain racist groups?

It does seem like that. I have no idea, though, really - maybe there's a young Bircher out there that saw a bunch of MRA comments on the internet and thought "what an excellent avenue for outreach!" but no MRAs ever fell for it.

I do think the same kind of angry newly-single dude who would fall for MRA crap would be primed for recruitment by white power types, though, so it wouldn't at all surprise me if there were connections - just like the "Patriot" movement has crosslinks and a lot of our Patriarchs are big fans of Confederate generals and theologians. You know? It's the same kind of thinking.

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For those asking about MRA sites, I think the the-Spearhead.com is one place to get an earful. MarkyMarkThoughts is a personal website of a rambling misogynist. Most other places I've been to are through links with these sites. I don't bookmark the MRA sites them because most of these sites are trashy and crude.

In my original post, I allude to the men's rights movement's "fringe" elements because the mainstream movement does have some legitimate gripes such as child custody and divorce issues. The Utah thread with the father whose wife gave their child up for adoption without his permission shows fathers are still discriminated in family court. However, there's an element within the movement that sees any female advancement as a threat to them. Worse, they don't care that these advances bettered women's lives and made them happy. They just want to go back to a patriarchy because it suits the MEN. I hope that these fringe MRA people are just harmless old coots who feel adrift and want to vent online. It's scary if they actually treated real women in their lives with such contempt.

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For those asking about MRA sites, I think the the-Spearhead.com is one place to get an earful. MarkyMarkThoughts is a personal website of a rambling misogynist. Most other places I've been to are through links with these sites. I don't bookmark the MRA sites them because most of these sites are trashy and crude.

In my original post, I allude to the men's rights movement's "fringe" elements because the mainstream movement does have some legitimate gripes such as child custody and divorce issues. The Utah thread with the father whose wife gave their child up for adoption without his permission shows fathers are still discriminated in family court. However, there's an element within the movement that sees any female advancement as a threat to them. Worse, they don't care that these advances bettered women's lives and made them happy. They just want to go back to a patriarchy because it suits the MEN. I hope that these fringe MRA people are just harmless old coots who feel adrift and want to vent online. It's scary if they actually treated real women in their lives with such contempt.

This is why I find the MRA movement so backward, fake and useles. It's basically promoting the patriarchy movement by sugar-coating their thoughts of putting women back in their place by claiming that feminine women are the only real women; and be reinforcing patriarchal stereotypes such as feminism being all about the strawmen feminiazis; while feminism is trying to tear down the patriarchal kool-aided so that people aren't expected to fill a social role that they don't want to yet the patriarchal system wants them to because the patriarchal model for society is really impossible to abide by. I mean no sex before marriage, saving 1's virginity, white Christian males being in power at all times, economy going great by not allowing minorities and women to work, what they view as immodest clothes, etc. I hope I made enough sense.

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Some MRA stuff may just be fantasy, but their "reproductive rights" agenda is quite real.

What reproductive rights, you ask? Is there anyone interfering with men's bodies or forcing them to impregnate women against their will or going around castrating them in western countries today? Well, no. These men will complain, however, that their ability to impregnate at will is hampered by one thing: they are required to pay child support, even if they think that "the bitch shoulda used birth control" and even though women have the legal right to abort.

My take on this is here: http://jrkmommy-personalandpolitical.bl ... -fail.html

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Some MRA stuff may just be fantasy, but their "reproductive rights" agenda is quite real.

What reproductive rights, you ask? Is there anyone interfering with men's bodies or forcing them to impregnate women against their will or going around castrating them in western countries today? Well, no. These men will complain, however, that their ability to impregnate at will is hampered by one thing: they are required to pay child support, even if they think that "the bitch shoulda used birth control" and even though women have the legal right to abort.

My take on this is here: http://jrkmommy-personalandpolitical.bl ... -fail.html

Not only should they not have to pay child support (which isn't that unreasonable if you can conveniently forget the Hell many women would be plunged into if the fathers of their children didn't have to pay child support), they should have veto power on their partner's right to have an abortion! Because making someone your personal incubator is a great way to remedy the unfairness of you not being able to carry a pregnancy. It just evens things right out.

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Not only should they not have to pay child support (which isn't that unreasonable if you can conveniently forget the Hell many women would be plunged into if the fathers of their children didn't have to pay child support), they should have veto power on their partner's right to have an abortion! Because making someone your personal incubator is a great way to remedy the unfairness of you not being able to carry a pregnancy. It just evens things right out.

It's really funny (well,not really) to me how totally Freaked Out these men get when a "life altering decision" is taken out of their hands. They really hate the fact that they can't make every decision about their future. That if something unexpected happens (she gets pregnant) than they can't control the outcome. And, in some cases the outcome obligates the man to support their child for 18 years.

It KILLS them that women are autonomous beings and that they can't control them and that they have to deal with a lifetime of fallout from what women decide.

And, yet, as a woman there are decisions men make that mean I have to deal with a lifetime of fallout.

It's all reinforcing that women aren't people.

Except there's enough truth in some of the issues the MRAs bring up that it's impossible to dismiss them entirely.

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Not only should they not have to pay child support (which isn't that unreasonable if you can conveniently forget the Hell many women would be plunged into if the fathers of their children didn't have to pay child support), they should have veto power on their partner's right to have an abortion! Because making someone your personal incubator is a great way to remedy the unfairness of you not being able to carry a pregnancy. It just evens things right out.

There were some pretty horrific comments on one of these sites I was looking at yesterday (it could have been the snarky manboobz site) that advocated compulsory prostitution for women who either have children out of wedlock, or who divorce their husbands.

These creeps wanted them placed in whorehouses where they would then have to service any man who shows up with a current income tax return. Single mothers would perform these services to keep the taxpayers from paying them welfare (and their unmarried sperm donors from paying child support), while divorced women would use their proceeds to give to the father of their children as child support (who would automatically get the children in a divorce).

This is just truly horrific stuff, and I cringe to think that this is even a fringe-y thing among men. :( On the other hand, it does give me some compelling material for the dystopian, near-future novel I'm working on.

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Do you have some of these female MRA websites? Am intrigued... thanks!

Most or all of these bloggers have trolled the hell out of Manboobz.com, which is how I stumbled into their horrific territory.

Try googling:

The Woman and the Dragon - Catholic fundy woman, apparently her husband is the most desirable alpha male in the world, because she "has" to put out for him since he's surrounded by pretty twenty year old women who will if she won't. The comments are generally even worse than the original posts, as is per usual for most MRA sites.

Red Pill Wifey - another blog about putting out for your husband.

Shining Pearls of Something - (try clicking on her "anonymous letter to a future daughter in law." :shock: )

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Manboobz is a good site for snarking on MRAs, but I can only read it in small doses. The more extreme stuff he quotes freaks me out.

Regarding MRAs and white supremacists---I don't know enough about either group to know if there's really much overlap. But they both seem to me to have a similar mindset. The message I pick up is: "You don't have what you want in life? You don't have lots of money or a good job? You can't have sex when you want, with whoever you want? You've been cheated! You're entitled to these things but some bad person took them from you!" Both groups seem to encourage a sense of entitlement along with a sense of victimization.

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Manboobz is a good site for snarking on MRAs, but I can only read it in small doses. The more extreme stuff he quotes freaks me out.

Regarding MRAs and white supremacists---I don't know enough about either group to know if there's really much overlap. But they both seem to me to have a similar mindset. The message I pick up is: "You don't have what you want in life? You don't have lots of money or a good job? You can't have sex when you want, with whoever you want? You've been cheated! You're entitled to these things but some bad person took them from you!" Both groups seem to encourage a sense of entitlement along with a sense of victimization.

Wah!!!! I don't have any of that!!! I am so victimized and cheated by the system!!! But I am a woman, so I guess it doesn't count *sigh*

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Most or all of these bloggers have trolled the hell out of Manboobz.com, which is how I stumbled into their horrific territory.

Try googling:

The Woman and the Dragon - Catholic fundy woman, apparently her husband is the most desirable alpha male in the world, because she "has" to put out for him since he's surrounded by pretty twenty year old women who will if she won't. The comments are generally even worse than the original posts, as is per usual for most MRA sites.

Red Pill Wifey - another blog about putting out for your husband.

Shining Pearls of Something - (try clicking on her "anonymous letter to a future daughter in law." :shock: )

Whiskey. Foxtrot. Tango. with this "Shining Pearls of Shit" blog and her Anonymous letter. :evil: The language she uses (and I've seen it reflected on the other Men's Rights pages I've peeked at) is just so abhorrent I just can't even.

The terms "pump and dump" and "cash and prizes" (to signify that all feminist women are, dontcha know, just waiting for divorce and to take the poor chump's money), are particularly disgusting. And I'm so over their use of "red pill" and "blue pill," which really taints one of my favorite movies.

Her responses to people's comments are also super speshul:

Second, it is not MATERIAL poverty that harms children, it is the EMOTIONAL poverty caused by being raised by an overwhelmed (and likely delusional) single parent.

I'll be sure to let food-deprived children know that MATERIAL poverty doesn't harm them. Nope, not at all.

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Her responses to people's comments are also super speshul:

I'll be sure to let food-deprived children know that MATERIAL poverty doesn't harm them. Nope, not at all.

This one really bothers me. My sister once said something similar to me, when discussing who would have custody of her child if there was a tragedy and her husband and herself died. It hurt SO much. Now, that she's going through a divorce, I know that it was from emotional abuse from my soon to be ex BIL.

He's also fighting for half custody of their 6 year old. One week/one week. I have to say that as a teacher I have rarely seen that work out well for a small child, especially one who needs routine. We are hoping that it doesn't get to court, but if it does my sister has been documenting the things he says, the fact that he will blow up in rage and then deny it, the fact that the child is currently slightly afraid of him because of it, and so on.

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That was very strange indeed from Shining Pearls. I'm still wide-eyed.

I've never thought about "spending my time riding men's cocks" at all. I am and remain interested in Marxist theory, dissident republicanism and far left groups. I suppose I haven't the sexxay for Handsome Son who is Completely Disinterested in Modern Sluts because Mummy told him to be :lol:

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That was very strange indeed from Shining Pearls. I'm still wide-eyed.

I've never thought about "spending my time riding men's cocks" at all. I am and remain interested in Marxist theory, dissident republicanism and far left groups. I suppose I haven't the sexxay for Handsome Son who is Completely Disinterested in Modern Sluts because Mummy told him to be :lol:

JFC: Please report forthwith for feminist re-education. Clearly, that will clue you into the joys of cock riding, and you can (according to these winnerz) more closely resemble their feminist stereotype. :lol:

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Wah!!!! I don't have any of that!!! I am so victimized and cheated by the system!!! But I am a woman, so I guess it doesn't count *sigh*

According to the MRAs, since you're a woman, you can't possibly be victimized by the system. They claim attractive women use sex to get what they want. Unattractive women and older women are worthless and should just go away where men don't have to see them.

Logic is not their strong point.

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Wait, are feminists man-hating lesbians, or do we spend our time riding cock? And why is all this cock-riding considered a bad thing by a movement claiming to represent entitled straight cis men?

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Wait, are feminists man-hating lesbians, or do we spend our time riding cock? And why is all this cock-riding considered a bad thing by a movement claiming to represent entitled straight cis men?

You should spend time riding HIS cock. If you refuse to ride ANY cock (but specifically his cock) you're a man-hating lesbian. But if you ride anyone ELSE's cock, you're a slut who spends all your time riding cock and so you are not qualified to be taken seriously.

There's no way to win at the game, by those rules. The trick is that the rules are fucked. The faster that more people realize that, the better!

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As far as I can tell, the First Principles of Men's Rights Activism go like this:

1. Only women I find attractive should exist.

a. If I am feeling horny and a woman I don't find attractive exists within my line of sight, she is an attention seeker, pathetic, clueless about how everybody sees her (because everybody feels the way I do), etc.

b. If I am feeling horny and a woman I do find attractive exists within my line of sight, but does not come over and provide access to her body, she is a tease, cruel, manipulative, etc. (All women who I find attractive know I exist. Their refusal to provide access to their bodies, or even notice me, just proves that they are malicious.)

c. If I am feeling horny and a woman I find attractive exists within my line of sight, but is pretty obviously with somebody else, she's stupid because he's obviously a jerk, or she's a ballbuster because I saw him treat her with respect in a non-flirty way, or she's sexually inexperienced because she's with a woman (sexual experience = sex with ME), or she's going into my file of women who may end up lonely and might therefore provide access to their bodies if I say the right things. (See 2.f.)

2. Being a man means having the right to use women's bodies whenever, wherever, however.

a. Consequences are her problem.

b. Having to masturbate in order to get rid of distracting sexual impulses is incredibly unfair because I am being deprived of my rights as a man. (See 2.a.)

c. There is no such thing as being friends with somebody who has a vagina. Women exist for sex. With ME! (But see 1.a.)

d. If I spend money in order to provide something for a woman I find attractive, she is in debt to me. If she doesn't pay her debt with sex, she is depriving me of my rights as a man.

e. If I do ordinary neighborly things but my neighbor is a woman I find attractive, see 2.d.

f. Affection, attention, etc., are just the cheat codes for sex.

g. There are only two genders, dammit, and only one normal sexual orientation. All people who do not fall within my standard as either too stupid to realize how the world really works, or fully aware of how things are supposed to go but maliciously bent on cheating me of my rights. (I may have special hate for gay men because a gay man treats other men like women--that's how sex works, after all--and this terrifies me although I am unwilling to consider the implications of my fear.)

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So women who have a career and support themselves are bad, but women who don't work and are supported by their husbands are also bad...I don't get it.

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I have been following the movement for a while and I am glad that the Southern Poverty Law Center listed several of there sites as hate sites. I know these people are capable of great violence and gendercide toward women and girls similar to the neo-nazi movements.

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So women who have a career and support themselves are bad, but women who don't work and are supported by their husbands are also bad...I don't get it.

Women are just bad period.

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