YLCF => Kindred Grace: New or Same Old, Same Old?

[bea]

Also, I don't know about anyone else, but "Kindred" always makes me think of the short-lived vampire television show.

CHRISTIAN VAMPIRES. Yay.

[erunerune]

I kind of miss the old-school YLCF, flowery hat(?) logo and all. I've been reading KindredYLCFGraciliciousness since 2001.

I will be 37 this year, which puts me roughly the same age as former YLCF contributor Lanier. Sometimes I've read her blog and wondered if the occasional Eudora Welty-esque bits are intentional or not. I would like to introduce some punk rock & tequila into her world just to see what would happen. Because I'm pretty sure she might not know what those are*.

YLCF was my second "gateway fundie" -- I just followed the primrose path after reading all of that Josh Harris garbage for sickly fascinating entertainment value.

The fundie lifestyle stuff has never been remotely appealing to me, I just can't seem to look away.

*If she does, I want her to give a Patron shout-out and quote a little Sex Pistols just for fun.

[silvia]

The fundie lifestyle stuff has never been remotely appealing to me, I just can't seem to look away.

This!

[wtylcf]

I will be 37 this year, which puts me roughly the same age as former YLCF contributor Lanier. Sometimes I've read her blog and wondered if the occasional Eudora Welty-esque bits are intentional or not. I would like to introduce some punk rock & tequila into her world just to see what would happen. Because I'm pretty sure she might not know what those are*.

(snip)

I have always found Lanier appealing without really knowing why; perhaps because she didn't follow the traditional fundie path of having a zillion kids through birth or adoption. Last summer I went on a reading jag at her website and came across a piece in which she described how heart-wrenching it was to leave her sea-side summer cottage after (what I recall to be) a lengthy vacation, before she was emotionally ready to do so. Not that there's anything terribly sinister or wrong in that sentiment, but it made me disgusted with myself that I held irrational feelings of empathy for a woman who has so much privilege in life that she can write about the hardship of a vacation ending with only the tiniest bit of self-awareness that this wasn't an actual hardship. (I think she intended the piece to be read as a sort of flight of poetic fancy, but still, it grated on me.)

[hoipolloi]

Lanier is a strange one and doesn't seem to have a lot in common theologically with the Calvinista gals like Gretchen. Lanier seems to me to be very High Church in some ways, especially with her love of the Yuletide.

[bea]

wtylcf, I have the same issue with Lanier - she's so immensely privileged and it doesn't seem to register with her. She and her husband and her sister and sister's husband bought an Airstream and traveled around staying in various places and she wrote about it beautifully. And then the vacation ended and she was so sad, it was such a wrench, because vacation was over and it was back to real life. Yes, poetic fancy and hyperbole, but it grated on me.

This woman spends the day writing a little fiction, taking care of what can only be called a hobby farm and a hobby book business, polishing her silver and presumably dusting her big Southern house. What the flying fuck does she need a vacation from? And then there was the vacations to England and how hard it was to leave those, and seaside cottage and the "island" and how hard it was to leave those, etc. ad nauseum. Wow, Lanier, cry me a river.

And lest we forget, this is the woman who penned the immortal screed "I Am A Stay-At-Home-Wife," about the GLORY AND HONOR AND BIBLICAL WHATCHACALLIT of not having a job.

I was a stay at home wife before I was a stay at home mother. You know why? I hated my job, and my husband made enough money for us to live on, so I quit. I didn't dress it up in pretty words, or swoop around in an apron pretending to be an 1800s Lady of Quality.

I wonder, sometimes, just how much Lanier has in common with Gretchen - who has three little kids and a farmer husband and (from the sounds of it) struggles to make ends meet. It seems that Lanier was mostly present for the "glory days," when Natalie and Gretchen were the main writers and it wasn't so boring it made your eyeballs bleed. I'm kind of wondering if YLCF/Kindred Grace has outgrown Lanier and her self-consciously genteel Southern ways. I mean, I'm sure she's a lovely person, but compared to the rest of the YLCF crowd, she's twiddling her thumbs while they bust their asses.

[Lostie]

wtylcf, I have the same issue with Lanier - she's so immensely privileged and it doesn't seem to register with her. She and her husband and her sister and sister's husband bought an Airstream and traveled around staying in various places and she wrote about it beautifully. And then the vacation ended and she was so sad, it was such a wrench, because vacation was over and it was back to real life. Yes, poetic fancy and hyperbole, but it grated on me.

This woman spends the day writing a little fiction, taking care of what can only be called a hobby farm and a hobby book business, polishing her silver and presumably dusting her big Southern house. What the flying fuck does she need a vacation from? And then there was the vacations to England and how hard it was to leave those, and seaside cottage and the "island" and how hard it was to leave those, etc. ad nauseum. Wow, Lanier, cry me a river.

And lest we forget, this is the woman who penned the immortal screed "I Am A Stay-At-Home-Wife," about the GLORY AND HONOR AND BIBLICAL WHATCHACALLIT of not having a job.

I was a stay at home wife before I was a stay at home mother. You know why? I hated my job, and my husband made enough money for us to live on, so I quit. I didn't dress it up in pretty words, or swoop around in an apron pretending to be an 1800s Lady of Quality.

I wonder, sometimes, just how much Lanier has in common with Gretchen - who has three little kids and a farmer husband and (from the sounds of it) struggles to make ends meet. It seems that Lanier was mostly present for the "glory days," when Natalie and Gretchen were the main writers and it wasn't so boring it made your eyeballs bleed. I'm kind of wondering if YLCF/Kindred Grace has outgrown Lanier and her self-consciously genteel Southern ways. I mean, I'm sure she's a lovely person, but compared to the rest of the YLCF crowd, she's twiddling her thumbs while they bust their asses.

This Lanier person sound interesting. I'll freely admit that other than reading some of the courtship stories talked about on FJ I was never much of a follower of YLCF.

Is there anywhere I can read about Lanier? Does she blog?

[hoipolloi]

Here ya go: laniersbooks.com/

[Lostie]

Here ya go: laniersbooks.com/

Thanks!

I've added that to the to-read list, but as it's 11:30pm here I'm going to head off to bed for the night.

[mangoshake]

wtylcf, I have the same issue with Lanier - she's so immensely privileged and it doesn't seem to register with her. She and her husband and her sister and sister's husband bought an Airstream and traveled around staying in various places and she wrote about it beautifully. And then the vacation ended and she was so sad, it was such a wrench, because vacation was over and it was back to real life. Yes, poetic fancy and hyperbole, but it grated on me.

This woman spends the day writing a little fiction, taking care of what can only be called a hobby farm and a hobby book business, polishing her silver and presumably dusting her big Southern house. What the flying fuck does she need a vacation from? And then there was the vacations to England and how hard it was to leave those, and seaside cottage and the "island" and how hard it was to leave those, etc. ad nauseum. Wow, Lanier, cry me a river.

And lest we forget, this is the woman who penned the immortal screed "I Am A Stay-At-Home-Wife," about the GLORY AND HONOR AND BIBLICAL WHATCHACALLIT of not having a job.

I was a stay at home wife before I was a stay at home mother. You know why? I hated my job, and my husband made enough money for us to live on, so I quit. I didn't dress it up in pretty words, or swoop around in an apron pretending to be an 1800s Lady of Quality.

I wonder, sometimes, just how much Lanier has in common with Gretchen - who has three little kids and a farmer husband and (from the sounds of it) struggles to make ends meet. It seems that Lanier was mostly present for the "glory days," when Natalie and Gretchen were the main writers and it wasn't so boring it made your eyeballs bleed. I'm kind of wondering if YLCF/Kindred Grace has outgrown Lanier and her self-consciously genteel Southern ways. I mean, I'm sure she's a lovely person, but compared to the rest of the YLCF crowd, she's twiddling her thumbs while they bust their asses.

Absolutely agree! The biggest difference between Lanier and Gretchen is that Gretchen has kids......if Lanier had even ONE kid, she would not be prancing about the farm feeding chickens and goats in her perfectly stark white dress and hosting tea parties. No fricken way.

I wonder how and her and her husband have addressed the kid issue with others?

[LucySnowe]

I wonder how and her and her husband have addressed the kid issue with others?

Presumably some variant of 'it isn't in God's plan for us right now' if they are talking to other Christians.

(This is general commentary, not specifically assuming anything about Lanier's situation)

Fundie women are allowed to express virtually no autonomy; if you get married it's because it's God's Plan, if your courtship ends it's because that husband wasn't God's Plan, and so on. Babies would definitely fit into this scheme of God's Plan Controls Your Life.

I can't imagine that any fundie woman who uses birth control would admit to it in a public forum, so there's certainly no way to know whether a childless fundie is desperately trying (though they often talk about that, which makes sense, though usually couched in Trying To Understand God's Plan terms), casually trying in a not-preventing-but-not-tracking-their-ovulation way, or actively preventing.

I'm not saying that anyone has to discuss their birth control. I don't, and I have no shame about any method I've ever used. But the narrative of a good fundie woman is that you have children because it's God's Will, and if you don't have children it's because it Isn't God's Will. Actually attempting to manage this in any way is seen as Not On.

[erunerune]

um, Lanier can't have kids. i thought everyone knew that, sorry. she even wrote a piece about it recently.

[Coconut Flan]

May I interject something? Fundy =/= quiverfull. No quiverfull woman would likely admit to birth control. Some fundy women would. There is fundie church a few miles from me: KJV only, skirt wearing, men rule, etc. Yet they have no proscription on birth control except that believe people should be open to the idea of having children. They are adamantly anti-abortion. Fundies aren't really a monolithic entity.

[silvia]

um, Lanier can't have kids. i thought everyone knew that, sorry. she even wrote a piece about it recently.

Do you have a link? I don't follow Lanier all that closely, but I'm curious to see what she's written about this.

[erunerune]

arthouseamerica.com/blog/lo-how-a-rose.html

[hoipolloi]

arthouseamerica.com/blog/lo-how-a-rose.html

Thank you for this. I'd thought that this might be the case but didn't expect to read her writing on it.

She didn't publish this on her blog, did she? That's really the only place I read anything of hers.

[erunerune]

there was a link to it in one of her posts.

[silvia]

arthouseamerica.com/blog/lo-how-a-rose.html

Her writing is picturesque, if a bit flowery, and I empathize with her, having gone through some fertility challenges myself before having my son. But the way she omits all real-world detail drives me a bit batty. Did she seek out treatment, and did it fail? Or did she simply resign herself to never conceiving if it doesn't happen naturally? Is 'barren' a final verdict for her, and if so, why? I, at least, have no clue what's really going on here after reading this piece.

[hoipolloi]

Re: arthouseamerica.com/blog/lo-how-a-rose.html

It certainly is flowery and very circumlocutory but then so is most of her writing. Still wonder how she ended up hanging with the YLCF gals as long as she did. There doesn't seem to be a lot in common. IIRC, she was even a "mentor" in a Titus 2 kind of way which seems strange.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

Does anyone know how Lanier pronounces her name? I've always read it as "Lainey" because "La-neer" didn't sound right.

Also...did anyone else wonder if the "Kindred Grace" branding is somehow an attempt to counteract "Recovering Grace", the anti-legalism website?

[erunerune]

I've never made up my mind if it is "La-neer" (like Mt. Rainier). or something Frenchified like "Lan-yay." Beats me.

[silvia]

Re: arthouseamerica.com/blog/lo-how-a-rose.html

It certainly is flowery and very circumlocutory but then so is most of her writing. Still wonder how she ended up hanging with the YLCF gals as long as she did. There doesn't seem to be a lot in common. IIRC, she was even a "mentor" in a Titus 2 kind of way which seems strange.

Agree. Maybe there was a personal connection between Lanier and one of the YLCF girls that compelled them to overlook doctrinal differences? I seem to remember that Lanier was a valued mentor to Natalie in particular.

[nataliemn]

I guess I'm a few days late to the party. Work has been kicking my tail.

Re: Lanier, it's pronounced "La-Neer." And yes, she was a good friend and mentor for a long time. Especially through my first divorce.

My opinions/impressions after a five-minute skim of the new site (not that you asked):

1.That italic/cursive font would drive me nuts if I visited more than twice a year. :roll:

2. Kinda ironic that pretty much my only remaining writing is a handful of book reviews (and, interestingly enough, my years-ago piece attacking the whole "guard your heart/courtship/purity" movement). Apparently nothing else passed muster. Ironically, they kept up the book reviews of the more messy topics like sex trafficking. Go figure. I've been considering having them take down all my writing, but this re-branding convinced me. I didn't write for "Kindred Grace." I wrote for YLCF. If that is pretty much gone, then I think I'll just clean the last bits of things out of my locker and be done.

2. The Exodus Road seems to be the latest popular "charity" to post a banner for, in that whole crowd. But I've yet to actually see them do something beyond hosting a banner. Do they realize that the average starting age of a female sex slave in Chicago or Phoenix is 13? It's not just Asia that battles child slavery. A banner is a start, I suppose, but we've got to do more than that. But that's just me...I've lived and seen the ugly and messy all over the world and am pretty jaded. Perhaps they are doing more and just not writing about it or showing what's happening in any way. :?

3. In the "introduction to this new brand" post, the author speaks of being "transparent enough to show the wear without wearing a mask." What does that mean? I read it about five times and then gave up trying to "get" it. Unfortunately, it seems like the site and post are hoping to sound more profound and spiritual if the meaning is not easily evident?

4. Another thing I find interesting? This site is very clearly exclusive. It's for Christian women and Christian women only. I guess that's always been the case (hence the "C" in the old name) but for some reason it just struck me afresh. Maybe because I don't see any precedent in the Bible or anywhere else that says any part of our lives should be exclusive, or "for Christians only" (i.e. "sisters in Christ" or what-have-you).

5. Part of that intro post did make me laugh. Praying over every page and post? I am uncertain if that is supposed to make the changes and streamlining of content somehow more spiritual and such or...? I'm not convinced though, that every single post got a prayer. There were thousands of posts (I know; I have them archived on my cloud drive). I'll freely admit I don't pray over my posts (not surprised? ;) ). I just write what's spilling over from my thoughts and experiences.

This would be a difference in theology, but I don't think God really has an opinion on whether I retain a specific post on this or that. If I'm going to pray, it's about something that I deem both worth my time and hopefully something God cares about like the aforementioned girls being sold for sex 15-40 times a day. :shrug:

ETA: 2 missing words.

[erunerune]

I guess the only feeling YLCF leaves me with now is utter boredom. But, hey, I've never exactly been its target demographic. I'm somewhere between bemusement and ennui, sort of like the day when I figured out I'd outgrown Tori Amos. Sure, I might dust her off every now and then for old time's sake, but the fact remains that I grew up and she didn't.

[Raptured_Pope]

Oh, Lanier. I would love to know if she is markedly different in person from the type of over-the-top, reality-distant person her internet presence suggests.

I rather imagine that if she were a guest at my house, I'd go batty within the first 15 minutes of her rhapsodizing about the essential ethereal beauty of my place-settings (with appropriate obeisance to some Book of Common Prayer phrase or other) or my awe-inspiringly arranged bathroom linens that in that one moment moved her inexorably to the most abject laud of our holy and triune God, in whose grace she was momentarily pleased to have innately dwelt.

She must realize, must she not, that Jane Austen is best read ironically and that Elizabeth Goudge and L.M. Montgomery are to teenage girls what Ayn Rand is to teenage men of the same age? Simply mimicking, mostly literally, their cadence and affect to relate to events in 21st Century life is odd, to say the least.