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alysee

Reason for the Duggar girls not courting?

35 posts in this topic

I think I figured out the reason they aren't courting(presuming they aren't)(we all know it's also because Michelle can't take care of the younger kids without them but...) is that I think Jim Bob and Michelle don't want any of their kids to beat their 19 kids and to have more notoriety, or to be more famous then they are. Any other reasons you think?

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My first post here, and I do like the Duggars "in theory", but I think they are so used to having an iron grip on everyone and everything they dont know how to really let go. And when the Josh and Anna thing came about, it was obvious to everyone around it was a train they couldn't stop so they decided to let him go.

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I think they just don't want to lose any of their slave labor.

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I think I figured out the reason they aren't courting(presuming they aren't)(we all know it's also because Michelle can't take care of the younger kids without them but...) is that I think Jim Bob and Michelle don't want any of their kids to beat their 19 kids and to have more notoriety, or to be more famous then they are. Any other reasons you think?

It's quite rare for a woman to have 19 kids. You have to be REALLY healthy, so I don't think JB&M are trying to actively prevent their kids from trying that, especially after Josie.

I don't think it's because they're trying to keep them from being more notorious, period.

I think it's a combination of being freaked out by their daughters dating courting and needing/wanting the help around the house.

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Two things: control and fear.

Control because they( J and M) need them(the J slaves) for labor and they(J and M) know best.

Fear because they believe the outside world is horrid and their children need protection and really how much older is 19 than 18?

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It could just be as simple as no young men expressing interest. I know JB said they got some emails or something from some guys, but I mean serious interest from young men the girls actually know, not random stalkers from the internet. Do they even know enough men their age in real life for a courtship/relationship to be a possibility? I know there was the Bates boy, but he's taken.

It seems to me that fundamentalism appeals to families where a lot of the children are girls (or where at least the oldest children are mostly girls). I don't know if it's something about wanting to protect daughters or what, but that's how it seems to me. Obviously there are exceptions like the Maxwells, and it's just an observation, not based on research or anything. But if there aren't too many fundie boys/men, there isn't that big of a pool of eligible men to pull from.

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I think I figured out the reason they aren't courting(presuming they aren't)(we all know it's also because Michelle can't take care of the younger kids without them but...) is that I think Jim Bob and Michelle don't want any of their kids to beat their 19 kids and to have more notoriety, or to be more famous then they are. Any other reasons you think?

I think part of it is they don't want to lose the sister moms, I think the other part is Jim Bob saving marrying off one of the girls until TLC is unhappy with the shows performance. Because you know the Duggar's marrying off a girl will be a MUCH bigger deal then them marrying off a boy for TLC.

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I think many of the fundie guys may be intimadated by the "family". :whistle:

Who wants their lived to be exposed on their TV show.....

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I wonder if they didn't have TLC money, would they have been married off sooner because they couldn't afford it.

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I think all of the reasons you've all mentioned are good ones, but I think there's one more.

I think that JB and Michelle are really afraid of making a mistake and making their daughter's lives horrible forever. Yeah, they've already made their childhoods pretty crappy, but that was mostly just selfishness. But now they have the responsibility to pick out the perfect man for their daughter without ever even letting them get to know each other. All this stuff is good in theory, but when fundies actually start thinking about assigning their daughter to a life of servitude to a man she hardly knows, it starts to get scary. It's easier to let boys go because they'll still have plenty of power. But if a daughter ends up with an abusive or deadbeat husband, or even just a husband who eventually leaves the cult, there's a lot less she can do. This is one of the reasons that Vyckie at NLQ started questioning the lifestyle. I think if the Duggars weren't so famous for their devotion to this cult, this would be the time that they might start having doubts. They are bad parents, but I think they truly love at least the older daughters that they bonded to, and maybe they really don't want to force them into such a horrible lifestyle. No matter how much she keeps sweet on the outside, Michelle knows how hard it is to have so many kids back to back.

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I do wonder if Josie had not been born, or had been born on or near her due date, if one or more of the Duggar girls would be courting.

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I think that since TLC fame came along, the girls have become too "worldly" and "high maintenance" for the average fundy guy. The guys they may think are perfect might not think the same about them. Which is good, as far as I'm concerned. I hope they'll end up with people who are more fundy-lite.

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I think all of the reasons you've all mentioned are good ones, but I think there's one more.

I think that JB and Michelle are really afraid of making a mistake and making their daughter's lives horrible forever. Yeah, they've already made their childhoods pretty crappy, but that was mostly just selfishness. But now they have the responsibility to pick out the perfect man for their daughter without ever even letting them get to know each other. All this stuff is good in theory, but when fundies actually start thinking about assigning their daughter to a life of servitude to a man she hardly knows, it starts to get scary. It's easier to let boys go because they'll still have plenty of power. But if a daughter ends up with an abusive or deadbeat husband, or even just a husband who eventually leaves the cult, there's a lot less she can do. This is one of the reasons that Vyckie at NLQ started questioning the lifestyle. I think if the Duggars weren't so famous for their devotion to this cult, this would be the time that they might start having doubts. They are bad parents, but I think they truly love at least the older daughters that they bonded to, and maybe they really don't want to force them into such a horrible lifestyle. No matter how much she keeps sweet on the outside, Michelle knows how hard it is to have so many kids back to back.

Do you think the Duggars are capable of being that self-aware or that kind? I question whether they view their children as individual persons or just as something they possess and rule over.

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I think many of the fundie guys may be intimadated by the "family". :whistle:

Who wants their lived to be exposed on their TV show.....

I agree fear of being on TV could be one reason the Duggar girls aren't courting. It could be that some young fundie men avoid getting involved with the Duggar family because of TLC. I have a feeling that some fundie families have grown to dislike the Duggars because they might the view family as "sellouts."

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I think some of it is that he doesn't want Jana or Jill's husband to pound away at them like he pounds away at Michelle. I think it was different for Josh becauser he's a guy. But I don't think he wants his little girls to be having all that sex yet.

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I'm going to be really non-snarky and say that maybe they haven't met the right guys yet...*hides*

In all probability though it's likely a combination of most of those factors, especially the fact that the need the girls around the house to raise the rest of the kids.

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How do we know they aren't courting?? Jim-Bob is way more protective of his daughters. I do not expect to hear of a mere "courtship" for a girl. I think we will hear of the engagement. A boy courting--yes. A girl--likely not in case it doesn't work out. After all it's up to the fathers for the most part and the guy approaces the girl's father.

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How do we know they aren't courting??

We did not know Josh was courting until he was engaged to Anna. I do have to give them credit that they don't publish each and every time one of their kids is courting, and when it doesn't work out, erase the posts (i.e., Maxwell, Alexander, Wilson). Perhaps Jana's apparent depression was triggered by a courtship that fizzled out.

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I'm going to agree with Lillian that it's perfectly possible that they just haven't met the right guys. I mean, how many fundie families do they have enough contact fellowship with who have sons of a courting age? Yes there is the homeschool conference and that is how Josh/Anna started but I think it would be more likely that they would get to know the family a bit more first. And Markie makes a good point that they might not mention it until the engagement, but might start a pre-courtship or early courtship telephone phase or something first. But I also would point out, that even in my little blue state, devoid of fundies as far as I know (except for a few Amish who live out in the farms away from everyone else, if you want to argue that they're fundie), fathers are more protective about their daughters for these things, and don't want to let their little girls grow up, and that includes secular and Christian and Jewish fathers, and is especially the case in my experience with older fathers, perhaps some societal remnants of when they were young, or something.

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Also, as courting was explained to me, the guy has to approach your father to ask permission to date you.

That takes some serious balls. I mean, my husband (whom I think is awesome, whom my parents love, etc.) was still pretty nervous about meeting them, and that was after we'd been dating for 5 months. So, for a fundie boy, who has likely had little to no experience in actually voicing needs and wants, to go a girl's father and ask to court her? That would be hard. Really hard.

In that world, you're not "allowed" to have crushes, so you likely have zero experience in saying that you "like" somebody. I never, ever told my parents about crushes I had until I was 18--and I almost had a panic attack telling my dad that I liked a *gasp* boy.

Add to that the notoriety of the Duggars, and it's probably just too intimidating to image. Remember, these guys aren't necessarily going to know the Duggar girls well enough to make it "worth it" you know? They might be interested, and in a normal world would go have coffee or whatever, but in fundieland, asking to court is 99% like proposing, and you don't even know the girl enough to know if it's worth the hassle.

(Not that the Duggar girls wouldn't be worth the hassle, but if you don't even know if you like the girl yet? It would be really hard.)

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Do you think the Duggars are capable of being that self-aware or that kind? I question whether they view their children as individual persons or just as something they possess and rule over.

Well they used to live in extreme poverty, and they feel that they have finally earned a better life by being faithful enough. But if they send a daughter away, she'll have to start all over again at the beginning. It's a lot harder in fundieland to secretly help out a son-in-law than a direct son. So maybe Michelle really doesn't want to see Jana getting up in the middle of the night to do laundry because she only has one typical-sized washing machine. Maybe JB doesn't want to see his grandkids sleeping in piles, with two or three kids in a twin bed. Maybe they really don't want to see a daughter die from pregnancy. And because they have to hand over authority, if they saw any of this happening they would be powerless to help. I do think they see their kids as pets, but most people still don't want to see their cat or dog suffer that way.

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Jana is secretly a lesbian.

I think it's quite possible that she is, and statistically one or two in that family probably are gay. But I don't think this would stop her from courting. She would be the last person to find out about a courtship, and even though she can technically refuse, what are the chances that she would say no to something that her father wants? Plenty of non-fundie lesbians and gay men are in hetero marriages.

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Well they used to live in extreme poverty, and they feel that they have finally earned a better life by being faithful enough. But if they send a daughter away, she'll have to start all over again at the beginning. It's a lot harder in fundieland to secretly help out a son-in-law than a direct son. So maybe Michelle really doesn't want to see Jana getting up in the middle of the night to do laundry because she only has one typical-sized washing machine. Maybe JB doesn't want to see his grandkids sleeping in piles, with two or three kids in a twin bed. Maybe they really don't want to see a daughter die from pregnancy. And because they have to hand over authority, if they saw any of this happening they would be powerless to help. I do think they see their kids as pets, but most people still don't want to see their cat or dog suffer that way.

True. I would like to think/hope that they have some compassion for their daughters and would not just tell them to accept their lot in life, if abuses occurred, because they are women. Maybe now that they means and are able to do more for their children, they will want to. But I remain skeptical. When DQ is so willing, if not demanding, that the older girls run the house and take of the children, I have trouble believing that she actually wants the older ones to become anything. It wouldn't be useful to her if they did. Since they "train" the kids to conform to everything, I can't believe they actually care if the kid doesn't want to do something. They seem to view it as their right as parents to command their kids, almost like a tyrannical King. Or at least that's how it seems to me. Especially, if they do subscribe to the Pearls teachings which basically teach mothers to be desensitized to their own children.

As for Jana being a lesbian, I almost hope she isn't. In that environment and worldview she would be so repressed, she may even begin to hate herself or become suicidal. But seeing as they have nearly 20 kids and the figure tends to be that 1 in 10 or 1 in 11 is homosexual, then at least 1 or 2 of their children might be. I just hope if they are, they get out and are able to live happy, free lives as their true selves and not feel that something is wrong with them or God hates them or any of that other bullshit.

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I think many of the fundie guys may be intimadated by the "family". :whistle:

Who wants their lived to be exposed on their TV show.....

Yeah, I think that's probably a big part of it. To court a Duggar girl, you kind of have to turn the entire process over to the family and then to the cameras. It's a lot of pressure and there are probably some really high expectations. That's got to be as intimidating as hell.

I could be jumping to conclusions based on my own prejudice and gross out factors, but the circus that was Josh's wedding and courtship episodes probably did more harm than good to the girls' future prospects.

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