JimBob's big mistake?

[Seven Severn]

The Duggars have traveled extensively in recent years and I wonder if JimBob erred in this. With all this travel his girls have been exposed to women who have rewarding careers, don't dress to their "standard", don't have piles of children, maybe lived independently, and yet were seemingly nice, happy people. Presumably the older girls might have some cognitive dissonance going on that needs to be extinguished. That being said, what has been seen cannot be unseen. Is the indoctrination enough to combat any cog dis? Are the girls able to brush off what they've seen with "Well, they're going to hell" and that's that?

[elliesmash]

I hope not. I hope that they have seen now that Suze broke away from the Kellers and has not yet burst into flames, and come to realize that independence is a choice they can make. I worry about them.

[lilwriter85]

The girls, Boob and Michelle have made different statements on the show. I recall there was one episode or it might have been in an article in which either Boob or Mullet said that the girls choose to stay with the family and then once on the show Jill bragged and made the comment about her parents allowed her to live at home when some parents make their children move out after high school. I think Boob and Mullet made the statement about the girls choosing to stay at home to possibly throw questioning viewers of the show.

I think the girls have seen the women can happy having careers and not having children or having small families, but I have a feeling Boob and Mullet probably use religion to guilt them into stay with the fundie lifestyle.

[Sweetpea1]

I think one of the other things is that the kids are exosed to the TLC crew. It may be very limited, but it is still an outside influence. I always wonder what the kids make of their interactions with the crew.

[lilwriter85]

I think one of the other things is that the kids are exosed to the TLC crew. It may be very limited, but it is still an outside influence. I always wonder what the kids make of their interactions with the crew.

There are a few rumors going around that Boob and Michelle made TLC agree that the crew members can't say or do certain things in front of the kids. They have said in interviews that kids love the crew members and the kids have said that the crew members are very nice to him. I'm willing to bet that the crew member probably don't like the Boob and Mullet and probably feel sorry for the kids. They are probably only nice to them for professional reasons.

[xReems]

Both Jim Bob and Michelle grew up with a "normal" childhood and were not overprotected. They know how the world works and still turned out okay before going all fundie. I don't understand how shielding these children until marriage is going to help them grow into mature adults. Look at Anna when we first met here--she acted like a teenager, yet she was 20 years old.

It wouldn't surprise me that JB and Michelle give them a "choice" but you know they use some sort of scare tactic to make sure they make the right choice. Jill's bragging about living at home irked me a little. She makes it sound like as if some parents just throw their kids out and fiend for themselves, which is not 100% true. My parents wanted me to live on my own after going off to college so I can experience life. It feels nice not having someone to watch over me and hold my hand. The Duggar kids can't do that, especially the girls.

They should let their kids run off into the world and experience life and find themselves. Big mistake on the fundies part.

[deelaem]

There are a few rumors going around that Boob and Michelle made TLC agree that the crew members can't say or do certain things in front of the kids. They have said in interviews that kids love the crew members and the kids have said that the crew members are very nice to him. I'm willing to bet that the crew member probably don't like the Boob and Mullet and probably feel sorry for the kids. They are probably only nice to them for professional reasons.

I'd believe that that agreement was made. But what I find interesting is the subtle ways the crew gets the point across that Boob and Mullet are neglectful parents. They show so many shots of the little girls sleeping on the floor, wandering around aimless and alone, etc. that I just know that they're doing it as a way to have an outlet for their outrage. And some of the questions asked of the kids in the interviews feel like they're designed to show the ridiculousness of fundie beliefs. Except for soundman Jim, who I think is fundie-lite, I'm sure those crew members get annoyed at the family on a daily basis.

[lilwriter85]

Both Jim Bob and Michelle grew up with a "normal" childhood and were not overprotected. They know how the world works and still turned out okay before going all fundie. I don't understand how shielding these children until marriage is going to help them grow into mature adults. Look at Anna when we first met here--she acted like a teenager, yet she was 20 years old.

It wouldn't surprise me that JB and Michelle give them a "choice" but you know they use some sort of scare tactic to make sure they make the right choice. Jill's bragging about living at home irked me a little. She makes it sound like as if some parents just throw their kids out and fiend for themselves, which is not 100% true. My parents wanted me to live on my own after going off to college so I can experience life. It feels nice not having someone to watch over me and hold my hand. The Duggar kids can't do that, especially the girls.

They should let their kids run off into the world and experience life and find themselves. Big mistake on the fundies part.

Jill's bragging irked me for the reason you mentioned too. But Jill doesn't know there are various types of situations that happen when children live home at 18. Like you said, people want their children to experience life and learn to be independent. Jill probably doesn't realize that some parents still give some support to their college bound children who live outside the home. So in a way some kids aren't being thrown out with no resources. I don't think Jill realizes that there are some parents who do allow their kids to live with them after high school. When it comes down to it Jill is extremely sheltered and spoiled. Jill would fall on her face if she had go out in the world and try to get a job. She probably wouldn't know how to act in job interviews or other things.

[lilwriter85]

I'd believe that that agreement was made. But what I find interesting is the subtle ways the crew gets the point across that Boob and Mullet are neglectful parents. They show so many shots of the little girls sleeping on the floor, wandering around aimless and alone, etc. that I just know that they're doing it as a way to have an outlet for their outrage. And some of the questions asked of the kids in the interviews feel like they're designed to show the ridiculousness of fundie beliefs. Except for soundman Jim, who I think is fundie-lite, I'm sure those crew members get annoyed at the family on a daily basis.

I have noticed those shots and I agree the crew could be doing that as an outlet for outrage. I was annoyed in one of the recent episode in which I think Jessa or Jinger that had Hannie sleep on the floor. I bet the camera man was annoyed by the sister-mom discipline.

[xReems]

Jill's bragging irked me for the reason you mentioned too. But Jill doesn't know there are various types of situations that happen when children live home at 18. Like you said, people want their children to experience life and learn to be independent. Jill probably doesn't realize that some parents still give some support to their college bound children who live outside the home. So in a way some kids aren't being thrown out with no resources. I don't think Jill realizes that there are some parents who do allow their kids to live with them after high school. When it comes down to it Jill is extremely sheltered and spoiled. Jill would fall on her face if she had go out in the world and try to get a job. She probably wouldn't know how to act in job interviews or other things.

She definitely would not know how to act during a job interview, especially with her "uuuummms" and "aaaand" that she adds in every sentence. There's no doubt in my mind that JB and Michelle use scare tactics into making sure their kids do what they want them to do. It would not surprise me that the reason why Jill said that statement is because Boob and Michelle told their children how so many kids are kicked out after high school. When your children are young, yes, protect them, but also be realistic about it, however, when they get older and are in their 20s, there's NO reason why you need to keep shielding them from the world. They make it sound like as if the "secular" world is a cruel and evil place. I feel like sometimes when the Duggars talk, they give off the "Holier than thou" attitude, which is annoying.

Since Amy is answering questions on her fb page, I'm kind of curious into asking her what would happen if one of their children wanted to break away from the conservative life yet still maintain a Christian faith.Doubt I'd get a proper response, but it's worth a shot.

[3 is enough]

Ah, Jill. "Most parents kick their kids out to go to college, but OUR parents let us stay." Oh, how I wanted to smack her when she came out with that little gem.

My daughter chose to attend a university in another state. And while her tuition was affordable due to a scholarship, her living expenses weren't cheap. She graduated debt-free, but she has to take out loans for medical school.

Both of my sons decided to stay home and attend our local state university. I'm not going to lie- we were thrilled from a financial standpoint. They both live at home, and have part-time jobs. They are free to come and go as they please- all I ask is that they let me know if they won't be home for dinner. While they may be still living under our roof, we treat them as adults. The added bonus for them is that we will be able to fund part of their post-grad studies, since their undergrad is so affordable.

The bottom line is no one got "kicked out". They all knew we would fund their educations- and spend the same amount on each of them. It was their choice as to whether they left or not.

[Guest Anonymous]

She definitely would not know how to act during a job interview, especially with her "uuuummms" and "aaaand" that she adds in every sentence. There's no doubt in my mind that JB and Michelle use scare tactics into making sure their kids do what they want them to do. It would not surprise me that the reason why Jill said that statement is because Boob and Michelle told their children how so many kids are kicked out after high school. When your children are young, yes, protect them, but also be realistic about it, however, when they get older and are in their 20s, there's NO reason why you need to keep shielding them from the world. They make it sound like as if the "secular" world is a cruel and evil place. I feel like sometimes when the Duggars talk, they give off the "Holier than thou" attitude, which is annoying.

Since Amy is answering questions on her fb page, I'm kind of curious into asking her what would happen if one of their children wanted to break away from the conservative life yet still maintain a Christian faith.Doubt I'd get a proper response, but it's worth a shot.

Even if Jill got through the interview and was hired she would still be at a disadvantage. For one thing, she's afflicted by the family's reliance on "Duggar time" (translation: our time is more valuable than yours). I can't see a small business, clinging for survival by tooth and claw, tolerating her sashaying in at 9:25 when the starting time is 8:30. Plus, she'd annoy all her co-workers by figuratively clutching her pearls every time someone swore, wore what she considered inappropriate garb or asked her to do something she considered "men's" work.

[GoJiRa]

:?:

[lilwriter85]

Even if Jill got through the interview and was hired she would still be at a disadvantage. For one thing, she's afflicted by the family's reliance on "Duggar time" (translation: our time is more valuable than yours). I can't see a small business, clinging for survival by tooth and claw, tolerating her sashaying in at 9:25 when the starting time is 8:30. Plus, she'd annoy all her co-workers by figuratively clutching her pearls every time someone swore, wore what she considered inappropriate garb or asked her to do something she considered "men's" work.

I agree Jill would be a terrible employee for those reasons. She wouldn't function in a workplace and I could see her getting eaten alive. I think all of the other Duggar kids that are over 18 wouldn't know how to function in a workplace. Smuggar boy would be fired right away for his reliance on Duggar time. The only I could see doing well in a workplace away from the Duggar businesses is John David.

[fundiefan]

Funny. Every kid I know going to college did so by choice. None were 'kicked out' and forced into school. In fact, many live at home with mom and dad while attending college. Many live away at school during the school year but live with mom and dad during breaks and in the summer.

The whole 'worst possible situation' becoming the norm in the eyes of people with zero life experience just really irks the hell out of me.

[lilwriter85]

Since TLC and the Duggars have been known to stage episodes. I think they should do an episode in which Jana, Jill, and Jessa have to interview for jobs at restaurants or retail places.

[bananacat]

No, they don't "kick kids out" at 18 to make them go to college, but they (allegedly) kick them to the curb as soon as they get married so they can leave and cleave. And yet they brag about both. They brag about letting their kids stay there, and they brag about cutting them off. They are the most self-absorbed people I have ever known.

And FWIW, my parents didn't kick me out when I went to college; I wanted to go. And they helped me out financially as much as they could. But now that I'm unemployed, my mom is completely willing to let me stay with her.

Jim Bob and Michelle intentionally made Jill a perpetual child, and then they "let" her stay with them because they all know she couldn't survive on her own. They're manipulative. Jill imagines all other young adults as being as naive as she is, so it seems terrifying to her that she might have to go live her own life. In this way, the parents keep her at home and dependent on them while at the same time making her feel thankful for them doing this horrible thing to her. They choose to stay at home only because the parents have made all other choices impossible. This is often a sign of abuse, but at the minimum it's certainly not a free choice.

ETA: By making leaving seem so terrifying, the parents can always hold it over Jill's head. I doubt they ever say it outright, but they can easily imply that if she doesn't cooperate, she might she just find herself in the same place as all those other 18 year-olds that are supposedly kicked out and have nowhere to go. By making her completely dependent on them, she has to obey or risk getting cut off. This is actually a very common tactic among abusive spouses, and it's terrifying to think what kind of guy Jill will end up married to.

[fundiefan]

I can't claim to know no one who has been 'kicked out'. But, the truth is, those I know and know of who have been 'kicked out' of their parent's home have been those who chose to do nothing with themselves. No job, no school, just living off mom & dad with no desire or willingness to make something of their own lives through work and effort. There have been some who were 'kicked out' from the tough love point of view - those who were making terrible, dangerous choices. Some because of other issues and conflict (myself among them).

But I have not once heard of someone being kicked out as a way of forcing college upon them.

The world view the Duggar's have given their children is nothing short of wrong and slanted in order to manipulate their children into fearing the world and staying at home to raise their siblings and keep the TLC money coming in.

[luckylassie]

I wonder what would happen if one of the Duggars tried working for someone other than their father, Josh, or owning their own business. I don't think the girls would do well in a regular work or college setting. I did not get kicked out after high school. I really wanted to go off to college but after my mom got injured and couldn't work anymore I stayed to help her out (and still do since I don't have a dad in my daily life).

[Alecto]

I wonder what would happen if one of the Duggars tried working for someone other than their father, Josh, or owning their own business. I don't think the girls would do well in a regular work or college setting. I did not get kicked out after high school. I really wanted to go off to college but after my mom got injured and couldn't work anymore I stayed to help her out (and still do since I don't have a dad in my daily life).

I think John David and the two girls who are EMT/Fire Fighters would do alright since they have some actual training and understand how to listen to a chain of command.

[Patsy]

I'm kind of interested to read people's ideas on the crew interaction - when I watch clips where the young men behind the camera ask "What was it you said again?" and then engage with the kids, I just think how upsetting I would find that job, having to spend time around kids and really be part of their upbringing, yet have little influence of what's brought into their lives :(

[FundiesInMyFamily]

When I read the title to this thread, "JimBob's big mistake", the first thing that popped into my head was which one?? hehe

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I've known families to kick kids out at 18, but college wasn't even in the offing. Usually Mom or Dad's new boyfriend/girlfriend got in the way.

After reading about a few of the nut-case "fans" they've had (in the new book) I really think the girls may be living at home for physical safety, but they could just get a body guard or two!!

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I think it makes it much harder for the courtship--all the travel, etc., has certainly made them way too worldly for some. That's really sad for the kids.

[lilwriter85]

I wonder what would happen if one of the Duggars tried working for someone other than their father, Josh, or owning their own business. I don't think the girls would do well in a regular work or college setting. I did not get kicked out after high school. I really wanted to go off to college but after my mom got injured and couldn't work anymore I stayed to help her out (and still do since I don't have a dad in my daily life).

I think John David could possibly do well working away from Jim Bob, Josh or not owning a Duggar related business. He has a good work attitude and like Alecto mentioned he has a grasp of a chain of command because of EMT/FD training and volunteering. The girls have probably gotten a good grasp of chain of command from that training and volunteering. But I can Jill and Jana having trouble in workplaces for different reasons such as the reliance on Duggar time and the fact that they don't a lot social skills in dealing with different types of situations or dealing with adults in busy situations. I could also see them having trouble because their beliefs could possibly interfere with dealing with co-workers or others in workplaces.

If the girls were in a regular college setting I could see them not doing well because they likely lack some of skills that are necessary in doing well in college. O Latin's thread on Fundie Education Standards has brought up good points about skills the Duggar kids may not or didn't learn learn. I can't see the girls doing well in any type of college setting. Public universities and communities colleges would be a bit too shocking for them because in many of those schools there are sometimes pushes to really think past the way you have been brought up and the types of students in those schools varies. They wouldn't do well in some Christian colleges because some of those settings are less conservative. In different colleges, I can see the girls having troubling fitting with other students. They would be dealing with people around their same age who may have work experience or children. Jill and Jana have been too sheltered and I can't see them relating to 20 or 21 year old girls who could be living on their own, having part time jobs, going to school and have boyfriend outside of the courtship systems that the Duggar girls have been told about.