Forget anti-vaxers, now we have anti-antibiotics

[SpeakNow]

My charming ex (about 1 month into the relationship he admitted that he was married and had 2 kids. What a winner :roll:) has gone from anti-vax to anti-antibiotics. The crazy is just astounding. His current FB status is

"For you parents out there who think you have to get antibiotics for your child if they have strep throat, you don't. We threw away the prescription. We treated our son with vitamin D, C, a multivitamin and lots of water. He's fine now (yes, it took a few days). No antibiotic required (here's why you want to avoid antibiotics unless your life depends on it: http://ahealthyidea.com/how-antibiotics-destroy-your-immune-system/)."

Intrigued, I looked at the article. It cites 3 sources:

1) New York Times- The only thing the times said about antibiotics in their article was "The work also helps establish criteria for a healthy microbiome, which can help in studies of how antibiotics perturb a person’s microbiome and how long it takes the microbiome to recover." http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/14/health/human-microbiome-project-decodes-our-100-trillion-good-bacteria.html?pagewanted=all&_moc.semityn.www

2) A Vitamin shop that has an article about the benefits of good bacteria but says NOTHING about anti-biotics http://www.1stvitality.co.uk/az/probiotics/index.html

3) Natural News- which talks about the evils of antibiotics without citing any sources at all. http://www.naturalnews.com/036479_antibiotics_immune_system_destruction.html

The article imparts such nuggets of wisdom as

What makes matters worse is that after we stop taking antibiotics, the bad bacteria replace themselves very quickly and in doing so can often make us crave sugar which is their main source of food. The bad bacteria uses the sugar to grow and multiply and the cycle compounds on itself. This overwhelms whatever small number is left of the good bacteria that we need as part of our immune system.

Without enough good bacteria our immune system becomes unable to fight off infectious bacteria on its own and we become dependent on antibiotics. People in this situation usually find themselves constantly developing stomach infections (a.k.a. stomach flu/bug/etc.) and have difficulty with digestion (heart burn, irritable bowel, food “doesn’t agree with them,†etc.). And because they are without the friendly bacteria to help absorb nutrients, people who overuse antibiotics find their skin and joints aging rapidly, further pulling them into the world of permanent prescriptions for pain and even more antibiotics.

No sources cited for any of these claims.

Does he want his children to DIE because he is depriving them of modern medicine??? His logic here is lost on me (then again...he also does Christian "save your marriage" workshops while cheating on his wife, so logic may not be his strong suit)

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I suppose it's convenient that in an age where the system doesn't want to provide proper medical care for all and many people (including a lot of the crunchy fundie set) can't afford insurance or the cost of necessary science-based treatments, these sort of "you don't need health care anyway! It's all a scam anyway!" memes pop up.

[Koala]

god help the idiots....

[snarkbillie]

Can we talk about you being friends with an ex who was cheating on his wife with you? Because, wow. Just delete him.

[3 is enough]

It is true that antibiotics have been over-prescribed and that there are new strains of bacteria that are resistant to most antibiotics.

But I think the culprit here is people who go to the doctor with a cold or the flu (viruses) and want some medicine. Sadly, there are doctors out there who do give out prescriptions to these folks, even though they are useless.

Also, in Europe, ear infections in children are not treated with antibiotics- instead they are given drops for the pain, and the infection usually clears up within a week.

But I never heard of anyone letting STREP go untreated- that's very dangerous. Same with UTI's- there is a danger of spreading to the kidneys.

[SpeakNow]

Can we talk about you being friends with an ex who was cheating on his wife with you? Because, wow. Just delete him.

I'm not FB friends with him (I never was...he said he didn't have one). He popped up on my suggested friends list, and I clicked on the link because I guess I'm just stalkerish like that.

[Three and Done]

god help the idiots....

God will not help them.

Their children will suffer life long disabilities due to complications of perfectly treatable illnesses, and perhaps even die.

I suppose in their sick and twisted mindset, that was "God's plan".

[Ajaminor]

Have to wonder how he'll feel (if he's still around himself, of course, what with for-going convential modern medicine and all) when one of his kids die before 40 due to cardiac problems brought on by untreated strep. Lost 2 beloved aunts due to those causes. Of couse treatments HAD been available back when they were children and stricken with strep, I have little doubt my 4 grandparents would have thankfully "poisened" them with the ebil anti-biotics.

Idiots.

[maybeizfundie]

I read something about antibiotics in the first 6 months of life having some long-term negative impacts on gut health. If it's true, I'd still rather have a kid with an iffy gut than a kid who's...dead.

A few winters ago, I had strep. It caused total havoc in my noggin, not just my throat. I also lost most of my hearing for *weeks* as a secondary effect of the infection, that lasted way longer than the infection itself. Lost 20 lb (and I *never* lose weight, even when I was exercising up to 2 hours a day) because I was starving. Couldn't eat. Likewise with mastitis. I'm a big strong healthy gal, but I tried letting it run its course once. Never again. Ended up unconcious on the floor for I don't know how long. I will kill it with antibioitics as soon as symptoms appear. And I would certainly want to spare my kiddos that kind of suffering. Thankfully none of them has had a serious infection requiring them to be taken internally, though we have had some wounds that we were quick to put antibiotic ointment on. We rarely use abx, but when they really are needed, I am all for them.

It's true that you have to be cautious about misuse and overuse and abuse of antibioitic drugs (yes there are folks who *demand* abx for every sniffle, and there are some doctors who are too, weary? I guess to stick with a "No."). But it's ridiculous the way some people pretty much view them as poison.

[Arete]

There are days I read shit like this and I want to throw myself into the pit of despair. This is definitely one of those days. The ANTIBIOTICS ARE EEEEEEEEVALLL!!!! meme crops up with the crunchies on both the left and right. It's OK to be one of those people who isn't strong arming their doctor to give them antibiotics for a cold, it is not OK to risk your child's life for your fucking dogma.

Tip from an antibiotic popping hussy-Have at least 1 cup of yohgurt every day during your treatment. It definitely helps replenish the gut bacteria that are killed during treatment that results in the heartburn and "not agreeing with you symtoms./end public service anouncement

[Wolfie]

It is true that antibiotics have been over-prescribed and that there are new strains of bacteria that are resistant to most antibiotics.

But I think the culprit here is people who go to the doctor with a cold or the flu (viruses) and want some medicine. Sadly, there are doctors out there who do give out prescriptions to these folks, even though they are useless.

Also, in Europe, ear infections in children are not treated with antibiotics- instead they are given drops for the pain, and the infection usually clears up within a week.

But I never heard of anyone letting STREP go untreated- that's very dangerous. Same with UTI's- there is a danger of spreading to the kidneys.

My grandpa had heart damage from Scarlet Fever, which is from untreated strep.

(otherwise I mostly agree with you- however, I've had some nasty ear infections as an adult, and when I'm blowing bright colored gunk out of my nose along with the ear infection- which has resulted in a burst eardrum once- I go in for antibiotics.)

[Wolfie]

Can we talk about you being friends with an ex who was cheating on his wife with you? Because, wow. Just delete him.

Sometimes it's just fun to watch the trainwreck, though. I keep a few former friends on my list for that reason.

[Wolfie]

I read something about antibiotics in the first 6 months of life having some long-term negative impacts on gut health. If it's true, I'd still rather have a kid with an iffy gut than a kid who's...dead.

The Weston A Price and GAPS diet folks say that pretty much all your problems are caused because you, or your mother, took antibiotics at some point in your lives and/or breastfed or didn't breastfeed you. So you have to overdose on probiotics to "heal your gut."

[maybeizfundie]

That's probably why I'm fat! I should go and rebuke my mother for her use of antibiotics!

I need to read more about GAPS. I recently saw someone suggest the diet as an answer to a serious (officially diagnosed) immune system disorder and thought, "Huh? Diet?"

[maybeizfundie]

Also, there is a fruit that cures cancer. Yes. Big Pharma isn't distributing it though because they can't figure out how to make money off it.

Uh-huh. :?

[emmiedahl]

There is a middle ground here. I make it very clear to medical providers that I have a somewhat conservative approach to tests and treatments. And I choose doctors who know and respect my feelings on this. So if they order an antibiotic, I know they are not doing it just to make me happy. They think the kid needs it.

This mistrust of physicians going around is crazy. If you don't trust your doctor, find a new one. I know that is not always possible, but even in my medically underserved area I was able to find someone who would listen to me. In Northern CA, we had this awesome pediatrician who treated ear infections with drops for pain and then I brought the child in every morning just so she could look in her ears real fast and note the change in the infection. It took her about 30 seconds and she did not even charge me. Her philosophy was to watch and wait whenever possible, and boy did she watch. I miss her. My daughter had a period when she had a lot of ear infections and I think only one or two required antibiotics. The rest went away within days on their own.

[Beeks]

Isn't this more chatter than snark? I come for fundies, not mommy wars

[Wolfie]

That's probably why I'm fat! I should go and rebuke my mother for her use of antibiotics!

I need to read more about GAPS. I recently saw someone suggest the diet as an answer to a serious (officially diagnosed) immune system disorder and thought, "Huh? Diet?"

Yeah, apparently it can cure everything.

(seriously, it has a list of about 20 or more issues from actual physical illnesses, to mental illnesses, to vague symptoms, to developmental disorders like ADHD and Autism that it claims to cure. IMO as soon as something starts to claim it cures everything, I run far away.)

[PennySycamore]

My late mother went into the hospital a few years ago for some medical problems. One of the nurse told her that she'd had rheumatic fever as a child. My mom said she didn't recall that and the nurse told her that she obviously did because she now had congestive heart failure. She ended up having open heart surgery where she had two valves replaced.

It's getting unusual to see congestive heart failure except in people who were kids in the pre-antibiotic era. This is a very good thing since there's not much that can be done for CHF.

[GiGi_41]

Can we talk about you being friends with an ex who was cheating on his wife with you? Because, wow. Just delete him.

So what I was thinking!

Now on to this no antibiotics idiocy.

Strep throat can lead to rheumatic fever or kill you if you don't use antimicrobials to kill the Strep A bacteria. An example of a death from Strep....Jim Hansen

Antibiotics are one of the biggest reason our life span has increased. Back before the discovery of penicillin people died from infections from small wounds.

I will admit that sometimes antibiotics are given inappropriately and have been overused for things like ear infections and viral infections. But if I had strep throat or syphilis or gonorhea, I'd definately use the ebil antibiotics.

Coming to mind...that little boy whose parents tried to pray away his peritonitis in Massachusetts.

[fedelm]

Ugh the anti-antibiotic thing drives me nuts. A lot of my friends claim ear candles and homeopathics and breastmilk and garlic etc. etc. etc are totally just as good and they simply are not. Believe me, I've tried.

I personally avoid antibiotics as much as I possibly can. I'm deathly allergic to the -cillin class; my last exposure was briefly touching a wet amoxicillin pill my cat spit out and I immediately developed a large welt. I'm merely severely allergic to sulfa drugs; last exposure had me doing labor breathing to deal with the itching. I've had a minor skin infection for 3 years that I can't take antibiotics for (how I found out about the sulfa drugs) and it SUCKS. 3 years with an infection is not something I'd wish on anyone. Because of my contact allergy with -cillins I won't allow my children to have them before 9ish months because the last thing I need is a nipple covered with hives when I'm nursing my sick baby (around 9 months I feel comfortable making them drink a lot of water afterwards to wash out their mouth). I've had too many doctors try to give me -cillins and it's been a serious issue.

I avoid antibiotics as much as I can but you better fucking believe I give them to my kids when needed. My baby had an infected toe (apparently not uncommon) at 6 weeks, got antibiotics. At 2ish months he had a nasty UTI, LOTS of antibiotics. It did seem to screw up his gut and pooping was an issue for two months, but that is WAY better than a bleeding penis or infected toe.

tl;dr version: ::headdesk::

[Wolfie]

My late mother went into the hospital a few years ago for some medical problems. One of the nurse told her that she'd had rheumatic fever as a child. My mom said she didn't recall that and the nurse told her that she obviously did because she now had congestive heart failure. She ended up having open heart surgery where she had two valves replaced.

It's getting unusual to see congestive heart failure except in people who were kids in the pre-antibiotic era. This is a very good thing since there's not much that can be done for CHF.

Yes, they told my grandfather he'd be dead by 50 because of heart damage from Scarlet fever as a child. He had a heart murmur for the rest of his life, but actually lived to 90. We do think that it was his heart that went in his sleep.

[DistantStar]

I am, even as an adult, somewhat prone to ear infections thanks to slightly wonky eustachian tubes. I get them every couple of years or so. And yes, I go for the antibiotics -- if I can knock it down before my ear starts leaking green shit, good. I've had enough burst eardrums that the hearing in my left ear is noticeably worse than the right; it's not enough to be a problem, just an annoyance, but it's definitely there.

I am an adult. I take my own chances if I decide not to see a doc, or to fill a prescription. But if I suspected I had strep I would be at the doc real quick and, if it were, pass me the antibiotics. Please. I wouldn't go to a doc for a cold unless I was in need of heavy-duty prescription cough meds to sleep or something. I don't want antibiotics unless I have an actual treatable bacterial infection, but if I do, I'm not screwing around.

I honestly have no words to convey the incoherent rage that I feel when adults deny reasonable medical care (and antibiotics when it's strep are damn sure reasonable) to children. Really, I don't.

[Wolfie]

Ugh the anti-antibiotic thing drives me nuts. A lot of my friends claim ear candles and homeopathics and breastmilk and garlic etc. etc. etc are totally just as good and they simply are not. Believe me, I've tried.

I personally avoid antibiotics as much as I possibly can. I'm deathly allergic to the -cillin class; my last exposure was briefly touching a wet amoxicillin pill my cat spit out and I immediately developed a large welt. I'm merely severely allergic to sulfa drugs; last exposure had me doing labor breathing to deal with the itching. I've had a minor skin infection for 3 years that I can't take antibiotics for (how I found out about the sulfa drugs) and it SUCKS. 3 years with an infection is not something I'd wish on anyone. Because of my contact allergy with -cillins I won't allow my children to have them before 9ish months because the last thing I need is a nipple covered with hives when I'm nursing my sick baby (around 9 months I feel comfortable making them drink a lot of water afterwards to wash out their mouth). I've had too many doctors try to give me -cillins and it's been a serious issue.

I avoid antibiotics as much as I can but you better fucking believe I give them to my kids when needed. My baby had an infected toe (apparently not uncommon) at 6 weeks, got antibiotics. At 2ish months he had a nasty UTI, LOTS of antibiotics. It did seem to screw up his gut and pooping was an issue for two months, but that is WAY better than a bleeding penis or infected toe.

tl;dr version: ::headdesk::

If you didn't talk about having young kids, I'd think you could be my mother with all the antibiotic allergies. (I am only allergic to sulfas, but I've gotten itchy when I had to give them to my critters too.) You don't happen to have some odd immune disorder that randomly strikes and can cause rashes, temporary blindness and major fluid build up in joints too? (she hasn't had that strike in a couple years luckily.)

[doggie]

we have so many antibiotics in the meat we eat that it is becoming a problem. animal farmers who are pretty much resistant to most antibiotics are cropping up. My gut bacteria got fried with all the antibiotics I got for my stomach problems and upper respiratory infections I got a couple times a year. 10 years later it is still very problematic. and I worry how bad it will get if I have to take more antibiotics.