Season 6 of 19 Kids and Counting. God help us all!

[DarkAnts]

I want to know why the other duggears were not given a chance to go hunting. Why bring all of them if only went hunting?

[marmalade]

I have been wondering about too. I wonder if Steve would ask for his face to blurred out. I can see making a request like that because he knows some of hardcore fans might not like him hanging out with people like the Duggars.

I don't remember seeing the camera crew in the pics. Just double checked. Pics from every angle; I think once Jinger got her "diploma." she took out her camera with the fish-eye lens and took some awful pictures of the crowd from the catwalk. No camera crew to be seen.

[JenniferJuniper]

I want to know why the other duggears were not given a chance to go hunting. Why bring all of them if only went hunting?

Since the other kids did go through target practice, my guess is that TLC only included two pairings in the aired episode. Assuming they hunted in several small groups, it would probably be too chaotic for TLC to air them all, so they went with the ones they thought were most interesting. Boob embarrassing Jinger about the birds and the bees in front of some random older guy named "Spook" (WTF?) and Joseph and Josiah, the Opposite Twins, bagging two birds at the same time.

[DarkAnts]

Since the other kids did go through target practice, my guess is that TLC only included two pairings in the aired episode. Assuming they hunted in several small groups, it would probably be too chaotic for TLC to air them all, so they went with the ones they thought were most interesting. Boob embarrassing Jinger about the birds and the bees in front of some random older guy named "Spook" (WTF?) and Joseph and Josiah, the Opposite Twins, bagging two birds at the same time.

I would rather see 6 hunting groups then see Jim bob give Jinger the "talk". It was both awkward and disgusting.

[yewnique]

When grandma Duggar said she does 70 loads of laundry a week, and that when she was away, the laundry just piled sky high....I just felt so sorry for her! I was mad that the Duggars has this old lady working so hard. This is a woman who owns land (and was it her house that Josh lives in currently?) and has some financial security and yet spends her golden years doing loads after loads of laundry.

First off, why can't the other kids in the house help and have Grandma Duggar supervise? They have all these early to mid teen boys who are all capable of helping with the laundry and yet it they push it onto old Grandma Duggar! At the very least, the time she was away, why couldn't the Duggar kids do their own laundry rather than pile it on? How entitled are they?

My children start doing their own laundry when they turn 8. They wash, line dry, bring it in, fold and put away. The 10yo still needs the occasional reminder and such, but mostly he's good.

Watching Grandma Duggar and the older girls do all that laundry for the men and older boys makes no sense to me.

[Avalondaughter]

Whew. I finally caught up with this thread.

I was reading everyone's opinions on Josh and trying to process all the observations. I'm wondering if Josh isn't a bit depressed and might even be "feeding" his depression a bit. I'm sure when he was younger and thinking he'd grow up to be a lawyer, he really thought he could. He was drinking the Kool Aid and believing his family's lifestyle would not hinder his success in life - it would just make his life morally superior. The more contact he has with the outside world (including, as mentioned before, Frothy's campaign), the more he sees just how ignorant and unqualified he is to be successful in life. Now he sees himself trapped in this closed-off world, with few skills to help him move out of it, and no means to support a family he's obliged to grow. I think he's scared and depressed and he's just stuffing his gullet with those emotions. His smugness is partially one of his defense mechanisms. He still desperately wants to feel superior to others, wants to feel he's relevant, and can make a difference.

The story about Jana and the Jewelry box really struck a nerve with me. The fact that she can still be so upset about something like that so many years later should be a big red flag for the parents. I'm sure one of the reasons why she still cries over it is because it was probably one of many examples of how she has been expected to sacrifice her happiness to get little in return. Did Jessa stop teasing her after she received the gift? If she didn't, it seems the whole scheme failed because it only rewarded bad behavior. Basically the parents were telling Jana to bribe her sister to behave. I think that would also signal to Jessa that bad behavior can be rewarded. It teaches kids that bribery works. It teaches them to use guilt. (Look Jessa, I'm giving you something I love because I love you even though you are a nasty little brat). Jana sees that something is terribly wrong in her family and probably feels as powerless as Josh is to do something about it.

[pega127]

Avalondaughter-I agree with your comments concerning Jana and Jessa. I think you hit the problem point on. I feel for Jana and the fact the memory of how poorly that issue was attempted to be handled will never be resolved.

[mebeforee]

Jessa said she didn't keep teasing Jana after that, she said something along the lines of 'it's not fun to keep teasing someone who's being nice to you'.

She was a kid, so I can't hold it against her too much. I remember doing things like that to my two older brothers. But still, poor Jana... not just that she was forced to sacrifice something she loved just to keep the peace, but the description of what was going on. One thing that stuck out to me about the story was that, for example, they slept in bunk beds with Jana on the top bunk, and Jessa would kick the bottom of the mattress to annoy Jana. But thinking about the fact that, at that time, Jana was the oldest girl and probably taking care of all the younger kids already? She would have been exhausted and Jessa would keep her awake for no reason. Then she goes to the parents to tell them what's going on, and they put the responsibility of resolving the situation on Jana, instead of disciplining Jessa themselves and making it clear that the behavior is unacceptable.

Jana may say she went to her parents for their 'wisdom', but I'm betting she just wanted them to make Jessa stop. And they failed her, so she was forced to sacrifice yet again to take care of a situation that the parents should have handled.

[silverspoons]

I think the laundry issue stems from the lack of personal space and belongings.

I watch my neighbors who came here from Vietnam's kids(one who has autism so no excuses about theDuggars having a few hyper adhd type kids) every saturday do their own laundry and many chores and it is done like clockwork and I see no reason why the Duggars could not do the same. The kids have no supervision (except a 15 year old brother, the parents work 14 hour days). The kids father said how lucky his kids are to have 2 nice front load machines and the kids just push a button, compared to washing by hand in Vietnam.

Now the difference is these neighbor kids each have a laundry bag next to thier dresser. They do the laundry once a week and fold and put away in thier dresser. The kids have one weeks worth of clothes and take pride in the clothes because they are thier clothes. It might not be the newest latest and greatest but they take good care of what is thiers.

The Duggars just throw the clothes down a laundry shoot. It is all jumbled up and put in one giant closet. It seems that a few kids are interchangable. Im sure a Jboy could were a polo shirt of a borther 18 months older or younger, the same with Duggar girls, switching off tops and the younger ones even dresses. I really think if the Duggars each had thier own dresser and laundry bag, the laundry would not be an issue. Michelle certainly should be able to handle doing Jenny, Jordyn and Josie laundry (how many of us do 3 kids laundry?) but the rest could have an assigned time to take thier bag down, wash and fold and put away.Im still confused if they use sheets? but they could also wash their sheets at the same time. Of course Michelle might have to check in on the under 13's once in awhile but it should work or she could have an older and a younger buddy at the same time since they have 4 washers. They could rotate who does the towels. Towels IMO are easy. Even if it was 4 loads a week, they are easy to seperate, wash and fold. Laundry really should not have to be a 24/7 job for Grandma. I think the laundry shows how lazy they have gotten. The laundry is just dumped on grandma, we see few real sit down meals, dirty feet from unclean floors, and very little to no formal teaching. Besides Josiah cleaning toilets, and an occanssional J-boy taking out the paper plate trash, is anyone working juristictions?

[JenniferJuniper]

While I believe the story happened pretty much as Jana remembers (and don't believe Jessa who would have been a little older than Jordyn at the time has any personal memory of it), the tears go much deeper than one memory of personal sacrifice for a bratty sibling. Surely at nearly 23 she knows she'd had to sacrifice nearly all of her life for an endless number of bratty siblings, and the pain and resentment she feels over the life her parents have forced her to lead came to the surface when retelling this little story.

I wonder what the fall-out was for her. Ma and Pa Duggar could not have been pleased about her little meltdown. I also noted she looked unhappy when the girls were "planning" their speech, so I'm wondering if there isn't some level of constant tension within that group of sisters.

At 23 I was out of college, working full time, with a brand new car and living alone for the first time. Having left a crowded house with four younger siblings, I thought my little place was a palace in paradise. Jana seems to be an introvert who really needs a "season of me" to find out who she is and what she wants out of life. At some level, I think she intuitively understands this. At another, I don't think she has a clue where to turn.

[jaynie]

While I believe the story happened pretty much as Jana remembers (and don't believe Jessa who would have been a little older than Jordyn at the time has any personal memory of it), the tears go much deeper than one memory of personal sacrifice for a bratty sibling. Surely at nearly 23 she knows she'd had to sacrifice nearly all of her life for an endless number of bratty siblings, and the pain and resentment she feels over the life her parents have forced her to lead came to the surface when retelling this little story.

Jessa might "remember" it, in the sense that she can picture the scene and imagines it is accurate, simply because she has heard the story many times before. If this is an example of what a good sibling does, it was probably trotted out on many occasions (I can imagine Jessa at 7 or so being annoyed with one of the younger kids misbehaving and being told to handle it the same way Jana did with her, though I can't imagine her crying about it so many years later). It's really not uncommon to have "false" memories like that.

I wonder what the fall-out was for her. Ma and Pa Duggar could not have been pleased about her little meltdown. I also noted she looked unhappy when the girls were "planning" their speech, so I'm wondering if there isn't some level of constant tension within that group of sisters.

They have such contrasting personalities, even despite their rigid upbringing, that I'd be surprised if there wasn't constant tension. They don't really make very natural friends for each other, no matter what the ideology says. If they'd been allowed to go to a normal high-school and make their own friends, I wouldn't imagine they'd be in the same social groups (and I wouldn't stick Joy with any of them, either). They'd probably get along better with each other if they were allowed their own space, ironically.

Beyond that, they're so well trained to keep sweet that they probably have to be dishonest with each other a lot. It would cause tension if you had to say "Jill, you're so blessed and godly!" when what you were really thinking was "Jill, stop being such a pious goody-goody snitch!". I imagine the Duggar Festivus Airing of Grievances would go on for a very long time, if they were allowed such a thing.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I imagine what they would all have to say about their siblings, if they were honest. I imagine after spending their whole lives forced into staying together all the time and being best friends, having to give up their childhood to look after siblings while the parents do nothing, not being allowed other friends and things like Jana having to give up one of her possessions as a child because she was annoyed at Jessa, there is a lot of secret tensions in that family. I bet they all secretly hate eachother and their parents.

[Witsec7]

I just watched both the episodes. The hunting one was a bunch of damned lies. In the way back days Jchelle said that the family hunted for food and they ate squirrel stew or some such. Now on the hunting episode Jchelle thinks it's great they are getting a chance to go hunting and learn gun safety. Duh.

Re the Opreyland Hotel, I used to stay there 2x a year for conferences, nice joint, filled with tourists. I found it interesting that Jchelle couldn't grasp the concept of indoor exhibit gardens. I really think they should take a trip up the east coast and visit the amazing greenhouses at the Dupont Gardens or Winterthur. It's so sad that the kids don't know about any of these kinds of things, or even have access to video tours of some of the great indoor gardens here in the US. It's not like a staghorn fern the size of a VW bus is a Nike moment. Or perhaps it is?

[B5SnowDog]

Now on the hunting episode Jchelle thinks it's great they are getting a chance to go hunting and learn gun safety.

:o Hunting trips aren't the time to learn gun safety. That's something you'd want to teach long before taking someone out.

[Witsec7]

:o Hunting trips aren't the time to learn gun safety. That's something you'd want to teach long before taking someone out.

It's all just a bunch of lies. Remember Jchelle claims that the family has always hunted. She is such a lying sack of flesh.

[B5SnowDog]

It's all just a bunch of lies. Remember Jchelle claims that the family has always hunted. She is such a lying sack of flesh.

Nice to see them go from a reality show to a "reality" show.

[MrsKay]

Jessa said she didn't keep teasing Jana after that, she said something along the lines of 'it's not fun to keep teasing someone who's being nice to you'.

She was a kid, so I can't hold it against her too much. I remember doing things like that to my two older brothers. But still, poor Jana... not just that she was forced to sacrifice something she loved just to keep the peace, but the description of what was going on. One thing that stuck out to me about the story was that, for example, they slept in bunk beds with Jana on the top bunk, and Jessa would kick the bottom of the mattress to annoy Jana. But thinking about the fact that, at that time, Jana was the oldest girl and probably taking care of all the younger kids already? She would have been exhausted and Jessa would keep her awake for no reason. Then she goes to the parents to tell them what's going on, and they put the responsibility of resolving the situation on Jana, instead of disciplining Jessa themselves and making it clear that the behavior is unacceptable.

Jana may say she went to her parents for their 'wisdom', but I'm betting she just wanted them to make Jessa stop. And they failed her, so she was forced to sacrifice yet again to take care of a situation that the parents should have handled.

All I can think is that Jana had to have felt so betrayed by her parents. Here is this little girl who is doing more work than a lot of grown women I've known - Parental Screw Up #1, turning your daughter into a slave; Parental Screw Up #2, refusing to raise the children, and making someone else do it, when there is at least one parent who is fully capable of doing so; and Parental Screw Up #3, subjecting your children to being raised by children, and depriving them of the kind of care that only an adult can provide, no matter how careful and responsible the other children are.

She goes to her parents for their help, and they respond by forcing her to give up her most cherished item. A non-necessity like a jewelry box had to have been rare in a home where parents refused to buy a child a desperately wanted pink blanket that she didn't absolutely NEED (see "The Pink Blanket Miracle", which is also written about it in their first book). (I still have a small glass trinket box given to me at Christmas 22 years ago; we had very little money for such things, and in our home, things rarely survived if they were breakable, so I have an idea of how she must have treasured that jewelry box.)

Her parents did nothing to take the weight off of her little shoulders. She was given no emotional support, and no help. She was forced to sacrifice a personal possession in order to gain enough peace so that she could be rested enough to carry on with the duties that belonged to her mother and father, which has been the story of her entire life, and will be for the rest of her life until/unless she is doing the same for her own husband and children. Everyone needs to be a little bit selfish for their emotional and physical health, but nothing has EVER been just about Jana. That event has probably stuck in her head as the theme of her entire life, and she has never been allowed to vent her feelings about any of it. I have no idea how anyone can respect Michelle, and to a lesser extent, Jim Bob (simply because he wasn't around as much as Michelle) after watching that, and thinking about it a little bit, even if they haven't been disgusted by them before now.

To add a substantial amount to my disgust is Grandma spending every waking moment of her golden years, doing laundry for the family. I realize that I was not raised the same as them in every respect, but to me, it's really not something that my parents had to pound into my head. Had Grandma Duggar been GrandmaKay, she would NOT be doing all of that damn laundry. She would be encouraged to only do what she wanted to do; the family would be taking over all of her duties, other than what she felt that she needed to do in order to maintain her dignity and sense of independence, without making it glaringly obvious to her. She would be encouraged to do things for HER, like discovering or expanding hobbies and interests, spending time with women her own age, who can relate to being widowed etc., and just finally taking the time for her wants and needs. While the family would not grovel at her feet and cater to her every whim, she would be treated with dignity and respect, and made to feel like an honored and important member of the family, regardless of her capabilities or physical contributions. For me, it is just an automatic thing to honor and respect my grandmother, as I also honored and respected my mother before she passed away, esp. once I was an adult with my own children. They treat her as something between a burden and and an appliance, who is also rather simpleminded. It really makes me sad to see that, and to see how tired and unhappy she looks while surrounded by such a large family.

Finally, I find it ridiculous that the boys, especially, are so new to hunting. Looking at it from a sexist male fundie perspective, hunting is one of the ultimate male rights. Looking at it from a practical perspective, with Jim Bob having had the ability to be flexible with his schedule for most of his adult life, and now with all of the teenage and adult children, hunting could provide the family with a very low-cost (even if they had the meat butchered for them, it would still be far cheaper than buying it) and organic source of meat. Add that to the amount of land that they have that could be used for gardening (even if the soil isn't great, they could still do well with raised beds) and livestock, it's absurd that they raise their children on expensive food that is loaded with hormones, additives, sodium, chemicals, etc. (along with the waste from the excess packaging). Then the disposable dishes, bottles, diapers, etc. - it all just irritates the hell out of me. They have the means to be virtually self-sufficient - which would also provide a good sense of self-worth and accomplishment - and yet they have a positively ENORMOUS carbon footprint, and very few useful life skills to teach their children. No, Michelle; as nice as it is to have the luxury, musical instruments don't often lend themselves to a secure and successful future. Not to mention, we're already seeing the effects in Josh; one can only imagine what the kids' arteries must already look like, and their future issues with cholesterol, blood pressure issues, type II diabetes, fertility (even if you don't plan to have (more) kids, some fertility issues can have a negative impact on your life), etc.

My apologies for the long-winded rant. :oops: I feel a bit better now.

[Miggy]

Whew. I finally caught up with this thread.

I was reading everyone's opinions on Josh and trying to process all the observations. I'm wondering if Josh isn't a bit depressed and might even be "feeding" his depression a bit. I'm sure when he was younger and thinking he'd grow up to be a lawyer, he really thought he could. He was drinking the Kool Aid and believing his family's lifestyle would not hinder his success in life - it would just make his life morally superior. The more contact he has with the outside world (including, as mentioned before, Frothy's campaign), the more he sees just how ignorant and unqualified he is to be successful in life. Now he sees himself trapped in this closed-off world, with few skills to help him move out of it, and no means to support a family he's obliged to grow. I think he's scared and depressed and he's just stuffing his gullet with those emotions. His smugness is partially one of his defense mechanisms. He still desperately wants to feel superior to others, wants to feel he's relevant, and can make a difference.

The story about Jana and the Jewelry box really struck a nerve with me. The fact that she can still be so upset about something like that so many years later should be a big red flag for the parents. I'm sure one of the reasons why she still cries over it is because it was probably one of many examples of how she has been expected to sacrifice her happiness to get little in return. Did Jessa stop teasing her after she received the gift? If she didn't, it seems the whole scheme failed because it only rewarded bad behavior. Basically the parents were telling Jana to bribe her sister to behave. I think that would also signal to Jessa that bad behavior can be rewarded. It teaches kids that bribery works. It teaches them to use guilt. (Look Jessa, I'm giving you something I love because I love you even though you are a nasty little brat). Jana sees that something is terribly wrong in her family and probably feels as powerless as Josh is to do something about it.

I also think Josh's biggest problem comes from expectations not meeting reality.

Childhood Lesson 1: When you grow up you can be a lawyer.

Adult Reality Check: You didn't receive an education as a child so you can't go to uni. You are stuck working for Daddy at the carlot indefinately.

Childhood Lesson 2: Adult men are the rulers of the home. They make all the decisions and everyone follows them happily.

Adult Reality Check: You are still under Daddy's authority in your private life, your tv life, your "work" life at Daddy's carlot, your "political" life as organised by Daddy, etc. There is no visible point in the future where this will end.

Childhood Lesson 3: Children are blessings from the Lord.

Adult Reality Check: Children might be wonderful but they are also hard work and expensive.

Sad really.

[mebeforee]

To add a substantial amount to my disgust is Grandma spending every waking moment of her golden years, doing laundry for the family. I realize that I was not raised the same as them in every respect, but to me, it's really not something that my parents had to pound into my head. Had Grandma Duggar been GrandmaKay, she would NOT be doing all of that damn laundry. She would be encouraged to only do what she wanted to do; the family would be taking over all of her duties, other than what she felt that she needed to do in order to maintain her dignity and sense of independence, without making it glaringly obvious to her. She would be encouraged to do things for HER, like discovering or expanding hobbies and interests, spending time with women her own age, who can relate to being widowed etc., and just finally taking the time for her wants and needs.

I totally agree. I mean, it's one thing for her to visit, because they are her family and she really seems to love them all. But she is not the one who decided to have a million kids. SHE had TWO kids. Now she's cleaning up after her adult son and his massive family? It's ridiculous. I think she'd be so much happier if she got into a book club or decided to learn an instrument or something, but she can't because she's doing her son's laundry for him. What the fuck.

Finally, I find it ridiculous that the boys, especially, are so new to hunting.

I got the distinct impression that the older kids HAVE gone hunting before. Only three of them were permitted to go out and actually shoot in the field, and that was Jinger, Josiah and Joseph. I don't think they'd ever gone turkey hunting before, but they seemed to already know how to handle the weapons. And I know that John-David has pictures of him and his friends with guns, and they went to a shooting range for Jinger (I think?) on her birthday a couple years ago. I think the younger kids were there to learn the basics about hunting, but they didn't actually go out with the others to shoot. So at least there is some logic going on in that trip, though it is that special Duggar mentality.

[Funky Chicken]

Ah, right. John was probably busy working. Never has it been so obvious to me that Jinger cannot stand her father. I guess just because they've not been shown interacting very often, but you could tell her "I'm having a great time with you, too" was completely lacking in sincerity.

Maybe she wanted to go hunting so she could shoot herself a turkey (by "accident") also known as JimBoob....

[Mela99]

Maybe she wanted to go hunting so she could shoot herself a turkey (by "accident") also known as JimBoob....

I was hoping for a Cheney-esque oopsie.

Also, on Jana -- she didn't sacrifice anything. She gave her sister a bribe to behave. Or guilted her. Still a crappy thing for them to do.

In relation to the pink blanket miracle -- if they wanted Jana to give up that jewelry box, why didn't they make Jill or whoever give her pink blanket to the sibling who really wanted one

[silverspoons]

The next few episode descriptions are up. I guess we are getting closer to the bottom. Is it me or have we already seen these episode plots before??

Warning..looks like 2 Smuggar filled episodes and kittens...motion sickness, Bransons, a visit from a large family! So Orginal!

1. Josh and Anna have added a new member to their family... Domino, the kitten! But caring for a new kitten becomes challenging when also caring for a baby and toddler. Plus, Anna has a big suprise for Josh as little Michael is about to take is first steps!

2.The Duggars are up to their knees in kittens! Michelle must teach the little ones how to feed, burp, and clean up after their newest additions. Meanwhile, John David is renovating a big project while also thinking about the future.

3. First Duggar Grandson Michael is turning one and Jim Bob and Michelle are pulling out the stops! Plus, Anna decides to make a 3-tiered high-concept cake for her birthday boy, but will it be too difficult for her to pull off in time for the party?

4. The Duggars put their family's history of motion sickness to the test when they head to Branson, MO to ride roller coasters! But first, their friends the Vanderhoffs are coming over for dinner. And later, see how Jill celebrates her 21st birthday!

[luckystone]

I was reading everyone's opinions on Josh and trying to process all the observations. I'm wondering if Josh isn't a bit depressed and might even be "feeding" his depression a bit. I'm sure when he was younger and thinking he'd grow up to be a lawyer, he really thought he could. He was drinking the Kool Aid and believing his family's lifestyle would not hinder his success in life - it would just make his life morally superior. The more contact he has with the outside world (including, as mentioned before, Frothy's campaign), the more he sees just how ignorant and unqualified he is to be successful in life. Now he sees himself trapped in this closed-off world, with few skills to help him move out of it, and no means to support a family he's obliged to grow. I think he's scared and depressed and he's just stuffing his gullet with those emotions. His smugness is partially one of his defense mechanisms. He still desperately wants to feel superior to others, wants to feel he's relevant, and can make a difference.

That's possibly true, but I don't know if he's even able to recognise that. Remember, they don't think of the outside world like we do. They think god provides everything and controls everything based on who prays the most. So he probably doesn't realise that it's because of the lifestyle he is uneducated etc. he probably thinks his time is coming soon and it'll all happen without effort.

Then again I guess the alternative is getting angry at god.

[Witsec7]

And later, see how Jill celebrates her 21st birthday!

I'm guessing she isn't going clubbing with her pals and tossing back a couple of Cosmos. :roll:

[bananacat]

I would totally love to see Jill celebrate her 21st birthday by going to a bar and getting completely awesomely drunk.