Season 6 of 19 Kids and Counting. God help us all!

[Deleted07]

I think Josh is really realizing he is stuck in a situation of his own creation and not feeling the way he is 'supposed to'. He towed the line and did everything they said he should, even got himself the perfect stepford/Gothard wife who wanted the gaggle of children and started that gaggle; yet he still isn't happy!

Its obvious with the last episode and he's shruggy, frowny, evasive reply, while Anna was all smiles and saying YES, he really doesn't want what Jim-Bob and Gothard says he should, in hindsight, but finds himself stuck now!

While I don't like him and find him douchey and smug; Its amazing really to see how he was just 3 short years ago, compared to now.

Back Then he was at least smiling, positive and enthusiastic about being a Dad, his marriage and prospects in his business/career. Now he just seems depressed, unfeeling, snarky and almost angry at the world, unenthusiastic about his marriage, and no longer looking forward to any more children nor career prospects.

I almost feel bad for him, but surely by now he should realize he can indeed change his life if he wanted to. I know it wouldn't be easy after all that indoctrination, but for the happiness of himself and his children, you'd think he would try to make himself happy and give his children better prospects than he ever had...

I'm wondering if as Mackynzie ages and becomes a young lady, he might change his mind on the female roles in Gothardism? And that might be enough to make him shake things up and make the changes he really should. I can't imagine many Father's really wanting to send their daughters off to be nothing but helpmeets and broodmares. I'd hope Josh wants more than that for his daughter, and I can only HOPE he sees the dim reality of the role of women in their cult and can change the future for his children. But only time will tell.

[Luvchild]

I feel bad for all of the kids. I remember the early specials when Josh said he wanted to be a lawyer. I really thought he could, with the money his parents were making off of TLC. The arrogance I see is what I see in all Christian fundies, they all think they are better than the rest of the world. They're all judgemental, yet they say they're not. I hope, really hope, some of them make it out someday and are free.

[Lana]

As for Josh, he's been out of the home for several years now. I know that indoctrination isn't so easy to escape, but he is now an adult who is standing on his own two feet (well, supposedly, lol. since they're trying to pass him off as supporting himself, I'm going to hold him to the same standards I would to anyone else in that position). He's responsible for the way he behaves now. I can feel bad for the situations that molded him into what he currently is, but there's no way to predict whether he'll become less of a smarmy douche as he matures, and he's still accountable for the things he says and does.

Josh is still stuck. There is no way be is supporting himself. Jim Bob is still helping him with the car lots as evidenced by one relatively recent episode. And I would suspect he gets a chunk of money from the episodes that feature him and Anna.

Do you think JimBob would help him if he wasn't towing the line?

[mebeforee]

Josh is still stuck. There is no way be is supporting himself. Jim Bob is still helping him with the car lots as evidenced by one relatively recent episode. And I would suspect he gets a chunk of money from the episodes that feature him and Anna.

Do you think JimBob would help him if he wasn't towing the line?

I think Josh believes he's stuck, but as an adult he has to be held responsible for the way he chooses to live his life. There is a choice there, it's just a very difficult one that would be really hard to make. Especially since he wouldn't be jumping into a management-level position in the real world, but would be starting from the bottom, which would really hurt his pride. But he's a married man with two children that are depending on him, and he's living apart from his family. It sucks that he's in the situation, if he's unhappy, but that's just what he has to deal with. And he has to decide how he's going to deal with the reality of his life. If he wants to change his situation, he has to take responsibility and do it for himself.

I don't know about JB. I think that, if Josh separated from ATI and Gothard, JimBob would initially cut off whatever money he and his family are giving to Josh. I don't think they would make him leave the house that belongs to Grandma, because if they did, his moving would be focused on in the TV show. I also think that if they cut Josh off from the money and that sent Josh and Anna into a serious, dangerous financial situation that visibly damaged their current lifestyle, JB would then cave and give money to them again. JimBob's biggest concern is how the family comes across in the show, or "using the show as a ministry". Neglecting his son and his son's young family to the point that it was obvious to the cameras would not further his cause, and would probably embarrass them.

(edited for grammar and coherency)

[Visionoyahweh]

For some reason Josh's behavior when asked if they want more kids indicates maybe Anna miscarried again?

[mebeforee]

It could be. The whole time they were asking about having more kids, or if they're trying, Josh's eyes were fixed on Anna. He did seem annoyed, though my impression was that he thought it was inappropriate that they were asking about "trying". In the past he's laughed off their questions about their sex/childbearing lives, but if Anna recently miscarried, it could explain why he reacted in such a noncommittal way while looking at her instead of the camera.

[marmalade]

For some reason Josh's behavior when asked if they want more kids indicates maybe Anna miscarried again?

Could be. The TH's are taped well after footage and I'd guess what we're seeing now was taped in April when pregnancy speculation was at its height. She looks 3-4 months pregnant in all the pics we saw of her in January/February and in the footage we're seeing now, which was mostly done in February - April. Thing is, she never really "shurnk" until a couple of months ago. It could be that she was pregnant, but after Jubilee, her pregnancy couldn't follow so quickly in the TLC script (but a Mullet pregnancy could), and miscarried in her early 2nd trimester, after which she ate crap to mask the pain she couldn't express. Especially to her MIL, who is going the Munchausen's route with Jubilee for the public record.

She seems to have lost some weight over the summer, so hopefully, she's conquered the over-eating, whatever its root cause. I was also wondering about the condition that spreads out your ab muscles with babies born "close together." I say this because Anna's kids are 18 months apart, certainly not close together by any stretch (couldn't resist) of the imagination. My MIL had my SIL and husband 16 months apart and only weighed over 100 lbs. when she was pregnant. Even now, at 80, I saw her weighed in a sweater and jeans, one hour after her lunch. 99.4lbs and she thinks she's fat. OK, that family has skinny women who live to 100, and Anna's family seems to be mixed once daughters have kids (they get boobs and hips like Esther or stay rail thin like Rebekah). Anna seems to be somewhere in between. Boobs and gut, but still not butt.

[MandyLaLa]

I would hate to think that if Anna miscarried she's not allowed or it's not "appropriate" for her to grieve for it because it might steal spot light from mullet. But that woman is nasty enough that I wouldn't expect anything but that from her.

[Naga Viper]

It's funny how the new episodes have made me somewhat more sympathetic to Josh. I can't see him making any moves as long as the show is on; I don't think he's perceptive or strong-willed enough to overcome his indoctrination as long as he has his creature comforts to escape to, and it'll really take the loss of that income to make him snap into any kind of action. At that point, all bets may be off: It's always seemed like people expect Josiah, Joy, or Hannie to write the tell-all, but lately Josh's name has come up more and I could actually see him selling out the family if it opens another door for him or even if it just keeps him in Chick-Fil-A grease for another year or two. Socalrules had a great post a couple of pages back about how playing Santorum's groupie might've been both incredibly eye-opening and depressing for Josh, so it'll be interesting to see some newer footage than what's been on the show lately. Instagram doesn't betray his true feelings nearly as well as the TV confessionals do. And I'm dying to find out how Asia went—I'm not expecting it to be a game-changer, but with things so unstable in Duggarland, you never know.

There are so many ways the post-TLC situation could go, almost none of them the way JB and Michelle would like. That's why, sadistic as it is, I want the show to end—I want to get on with the fallout.

[Evilbad]

I think he never planned on having a giant litter like his parents. He was there for all the crazy, and remembers every bit of their life before TLC. Again, I don't think he cares about his wife the way the couples I know do, but I do think he wants better for his kids.

I wouldn't be surprised if he was taking college courses on the down low or something.

[lilwriter85]

It's funny how the new episodes have made me somewhat more sympathetic to Josh. I can't see him making any moves as long as the show is on; I don't think he's perceptive or strong-willed enough to overcome his indoctrination as long as he has his creature comforts to escape to, and it'll really take the loss of that income to make him snap into any kind of action. At that point, all bets may be off: It's always seemed like people expect Josiah, Joy, or Hannie to write the tell-all, but lately Josh's name has come up more and I could actually see him selling out the family if it opens another door for him or even if it just keeps him in Chick-Fil-A grease for another year or two. Socalrules had a great post a couple of pages back about how playing Santorum's groupie might've been both incredibly eye-opening and depressing for Josh, so it'll be interesting to see some newer footage than what's been on the show lately. Instagram doesn't betray his true feelings nearly as well as the TV confessionals do. And I'm dying to find out how Asia went—I'm not expecting it to be a game-changer, but with things so unstable in Duggarland, you never know.

There are so many ways the post-TLC situation could go, almost none of them the way JB and Michelle would like. That's why, sadistic as it is, I want the show to end—I want to get on with the fallout.

Yup, there are so many ways things can turn out post TLC for the Duggars. I think rifts will happen once the show ends. Josh will still be stuck because his the car lot is owned by Boob and it seems that the lot doesn't do that well. I think some of the younger boys like Josiah, Jedediah, and Jeremiah may resent Boob later on because of the car lot and towing businesses. Boob isn't going to be able to set up all of his boys in businesses.

The Duggars have made some decent money from TLC, that money will keep them secure, but they will have to say bye bye to overseas trips. I can picture the Howler monkeys crying later on about not being able to go on trips. Grandma, Amy, and Deanna will also have issues when they stop getting TLC perks. After the show ends, the Duggars will realize their Z list status. It is a bit sad that the Duggars do make more per episode than some of the actors on some scripted shows. But actors and actresses find a lot of other ways to capitalize on their fame. With the Duggars, they probably got tutition/fee waivers from CollegeMinus for their endorsements. They also got money from endorsing that Farmville rip off game. The J'Slaves aren't like the Kardashian/Jenner sisters who get modeling and other endorsement deals. I doubt that the Duggars do well in DVD or VOD sales.

[Naga Viper]

OTOH, if the show does continue, there's always the prospect of JB and Michelle truly reaping what they've sown as the howlers inch into puberty, not to mention the possibility of Michelle reaching menopause on-camera, right? Either way, my evil heathen ass wins. :twisted:

[Mrs Ms]

I just had a completely different train of thought. The best way for Josh to break free and not loose anything would be to go his parents now with the TLC cameras rolling and tell them he is over Gothard and leaving ATI and the QF movement. No matter how they react, he and Anna will come out better off. Either JB&M loose face with Gothard and keep on helping J&A to keep the public from turning on them or they show what they really believe and see how long the tv show stays on air when the viewers realize that the Duggars are NOT a lovely large loving family.

If JB&M toss them out the offers for the tell-all book would be pretty high compared to a few years from now as they are still "current".

[Naga Viper]

Never say never—especially since that idea is outrageous enough to throw Jim Bob off his game and might be the only counterweight to the things JB holds over him. Josh, though, just doesn't strike me as being strategic or determined enough to put his parents in that kind of checkmate. Hannie in ten years, perhaps, if they don't break her first, but I have trouble seeing Josh overcoming the blanket training enough to even attempt that gambit. Anna backing him up might help, but she's not much brighter or bolder than he is, and I doubt withholding the grandkids would carry much leverage either. I think Josh going fundie-lite on the DL is as close to overt rebellion as he's capable of, at least until somebody else manages a proper jailbreak.

Still: Josh, if you're reading this? Go for it; see what happens. We'll watch from here. :whistle:

[Freedom17]

did anyone else notice in the episode of the dinner with the pope's the Tim Tebow book on the kitchen counter

[MrsYoungie]

did anyone else notice in the episode of the dinner with the pope'sthe Tim Tebow book on the kitchen counter

Everytime I see this phrase I think "Why did the Pope visit the Duggars?"

[socalrules]

did anyone else notice in the episode of the dinner with the pope's the Tim Tebow book on the kitchen counter

I didn't see it but, if it was there, it was obviously for show only. No way in hell will Jim Bob and Michelle allow their children to read about Tim Tebow's life, even though I am sure the book is very Christian-oriented. At the end of the day, Tebow is still not good enough for their Gothard world. Even though a big deal has been made about the fact that his mother refused to abort him, the reality is that she was a single woman that had sex. A big no-no in Gothard world. Plus, he can talk about God and being a virgin all he wants but he still lives a pretty normal life. He went to a non-religious evil state university, lives on his own, has a job working for others and I am sure has a wide range of friends. He is not under anyone's authority but his own. If the Duggar kids read his book, they might be led to believe that they can be good Christians and still live out in the non-Gothard world with the rest of us heathens. No way will Jim Bob and Michelle allow that.

[marmalade]

did anyone else notice in the episode of the dinner with the pope's the Tim Tebow book on the kitchen counter

I commented it on this thread in real time. How conveeeeeeeeient for the book to be on a KITCHEN counter right where Mullet was placed to make that phone call on camera. :roll: It was definitely meant to be a subtle FU moment; the Duggars DO read (or that's what they want us to think). Frankly, reading nothing would be an improvement over Tebow's schlock, or Prince Charming, or a Sarah Maxwell book. FTR, the Bateses have also expressed that they <3 Tebow as well. Dumbshits. Especially given their proximity in SEC country; there are hundreds of professional athletes who are Christian and have charities in their names (I think it's compulsory for the players to, at minimum, work with a charity in the town where they play). Why this twatwaffle?

One thing I forgot to notate: did Mullet have Sarah Pope on speaker phone or was she doing her best Bob Newhart comedy routine (a reference she'd never get). I doubt she ever watched Newhart in any of his incarnations...imagine her horror at Larry, Darryl and Darryl. :dance:

[Naga Viper]

Anybody who makes a Larry, Darryl, and Darryl reference can sit next to me. Even with Big Game in three weeks. ;)

[marmalade]

Anybody who makes a Larry, Darryl, and Darryl reference can sit next to me. Even with Big Game in three weeks. ;)

Hee. :lol: (PS: WTF with the Big Game in mid-October????? That game is meant to be played the week before Thanksgiving, damitol!)

Read your post about being on The Farm during Loma Prieta. I was up by the Bay Bridge and the freeway that pancaked and even 75 miles from the epicenter, it was freaky-deaky. That much closer must have been something, especially since there's all that Spanish revival architecture on campus.

[Naga Viper]

Read your post about being on The Farm during Loma Prieta. I was up by the Bay Bridge and the freeway that pancaked and even 75 miles from the epicenter, it was freaky-deaky. That much closer must have been something, especially since there's all that Spanish revival architecture on campus.

Yeah, I got stories; that was only four weeks into my freshman year too, so it was interesting to see the difference between the out-of-staters excitedly high-fiving about their first quake and then the Californians off to the side, all of us quietly freaking out and going, "That was a big one." Most of the dorms were fine, but lots of the older buildings were tagged for months or even years. Things like the campus art museum were still closed when I graduated.

So as not to threadjack: I totally thought it was Tuesday earlier this evening and kept hitting refresh on this page for about an hour before finally remembering the date. :?

[nokidsmom]

There are so many ways the post-TLC situation could go, almost none of them the way JB and Michelle would like. That's why, sadistic as it is, I want the show to end—I want to get on with the fallout.

OTOH, if the show does continue, there's always the prospect of JB and Michelle truly reaping what they've sown as the howlers inch into puberty, not to mention the possibility of Michelle reaching menopause on-camera, right? Either way, my evil heathen ass wins. :twisted: :

The more I read about the Duggars here the more I think they are really shitty parents and either way it goes, I can't help but see it as karmic.

[shesinsane]

I commented it on this thread in real time. How conveeeeeeeeient for the book to be on a KITCHEN counter right where Mullet was placed to make that phone call on camera. :roll: It was definitely meant to be a subtle FU moment; the Duggars DO read (or that's what they want us to think). Frankly, reading nothing would be an improvement over Tebow's schlock, or Prince Charming, or a Sarah Maxwell book. FTR, the Bateses have also expressed that they <3 Tebow as well. Dumbshits. Especially given their proximity in SEC country; there are hundreds of professional athletes who are Christian and have charities in their names (I think it's compulsory for the players to, at minimum, work with a charity in the town where they play). Why this twatwaffle?

I thought maybe the book was put there as a way for JB to communicate "I've got marriageable daughters, and they are being trained in all things Tebow" (with lots of wiggly eyebrows)

One thing I forgot to notate: did Mullet have Sarah Pope on speaker phone or was she doing her best Bob Newhart comedy routine (a reference she'd never get). I doubt she ever watched Newhart in any of his incarnations...imagine her horror at Larry, Darryl and Darryl. :dance:

I don't think it was speaker phone, to me it looked like Michelle was reenacting it for the cameras. I guess her voiceover explaining why the Popes weren't coming wasn't clear enough, had to pretend to get the phone call in front of the cameras.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I'm waiting for them to show any of these to prove they parent/do the show by opinion polls:

One of the little girls in pants (when not skiing--I think they did wear them for that)--"See our daughters can CHOOSE to wear pants"

A Bates-show-style outing by only one kid (other not shown, of course)

One of the Big 4 going for coffee (but not a DATE) with an appropriate young man (but not showing the "chaperone"]

My money is on Josiah for the cut-and-run the second the show ends. I'm hoping he writes a book. Even if the writing is awful I'll buy copies and give them away.

[Alana Rickman]

I didn't see it but, if it was there, it was obviously for show only. No way in hell will Jim Bob and Michelle allow their children to read about Tim Tebow's life, even though I am sure the book is very Christian-oriented. At the end of the day, Tebow is still not good enough for their Gothard world. Even though a big deal has been made about the fact that his mother refused to abort him, the reality is that she was a single woman that had sex. A big no-no in Gothard world. Plus, he can talk about God and being a virgin all he wants but he still lives a pretty normal life. He went to a non-religious evil state university, lives on his own, has a job working for others and I am sure has a wide range of friends. He is not under anyone's authority but his own. If the Duggar kids read his book, they might be led to believe that they can be good Christians and still live out in the non-Gothard world with the rest of us heathens. No way will Jim Bob and Michelle allow that.

Tebow wasn't born to a single mother. His parents were Baptist missionaries in the Philippines while his mother was pregnant with him, and his mother was advised to abort because she came down with an infection that caused a placental abruption. But his parents were definitely married at that time (and since he's the youngest of five, probably for quite some time before that).