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    • Curious

      Guest Speaker 1.26.17 @ 8pm eastern   01/22/2017

      I am pleased to announce that we have are going to have a Q&A with an ex-evangelical on Thurs, January 26, 2017 @ 8pm.  The Q&A will last for approximately 1 hour.  I will be setting up a subforum for guest speakers as I hope to be able to get some other folks come talk to us. Our guest on Thurs will be Chris Stroop.  Here is his bio: Christopher Stroop grew up a rank-and-file member of the Christian Right in an Evangelical enclave community, Stroop's childhood social milieu consisting mostly of family and people associated with church and/or Christian school. From about the age of 16, Stroop found himself dealing with an increasingly acute crisis of faith that was not addressed properly by the people he talked to about it, and he was subjected to spiritual abuse. Stroop nevertheless went on to earn a BA in history and German from Ball State University (summa cum laude) in 2003, and then a Ph.D. in modern Russian History and Interdisciplinary Studies in the Humanities from Stanford in 2012. Subsequently, Stroop spent three academic years teaching in the School of Public Policy at the Russian Presidential Academy of National Economy and Public Administration in Moscow, where he kind of sort of almost got in trouble for "teaching Pussy Riot lyrics." Currently, Stroop teaches nineteenth-century European history and Russian Studies classes as a Provost's Postdoctoral Scholar at the University of South Florida and, as a freelance writer and public speaker, speaks out against the abuses of conservative Christianity in general and the the white Evangelical subculture he comes from in particular. You can find many of his writings in this vein on Religion Dispatches. If you would like to support this work financially, please click here (for monthly support) or here (to leave a one-time gift). Stroop's more academic writings can mostly be found here, and you can follow him on Twitter - @C_Stroop.   We are going to use the Q&A forum format.  I will be setting up a special forum just for Chris.  I will open the forum about 15 minutes before the Q&A starts so you can start asking your questions.   We have a few rules.  Failure to follow these rules will get you temporarily placed in the Prayer Closet so we can preview your posts.  If you get put in the PC during the Q&A you will be released once it's over, but lets just follow the few simple rules so none of that is necessary. Rules for Q&A: 1. Be polite.  This is not an event meant for snark.  Chris is taking time out of his busy schedule to talk to us.  He is an expert in the things we discuss here, so let's give him respect, please. 2. One question per post.   Please don't bog him down with a bunch of questions in one post.  We are using the Q&A format so he can easily answer questions.  Putting a ton of questions in one post defeats the purpose.   You can continue discussion on the thread as he answers and ask another question in the same thread if you have one after he answers. 3. Please try to keep thread drift to a minimum during the Q&A.  After it's over, if you want to continue discussion on the topics  and they drift, that's fine. 4.  Be polite! These rules are subject to change as I and the helpmeets think over possible loopholes (cause there is always one person that has to push boundaries)
happy atheist

Meet Hellena and Currawong

854 posts in this topic

Those of you who follow the thread about Lauren Fisher, the Australian blogger whose husband drowned their baby, might have seen a little about these two. I think they might deserve a wider audience.

spunoutpost.blogspot.com

They are Australian radical unschoolers with 8 kids: Jessica, Griffyn Flux, Lilith Magenta De-Ath, Spiral-Moon, Balthazar Pheonix, Maxamillion Hercules, Merlin Radbod, and Zarrathustra Cyrus Wildcat.

Hellena suffers terribly from diarrhea of the keyboard, so there's tons of snark material. Here's her reason for unschooling (I've done my best to edit it down -- it's a truly epic post):

One of the biggest reasons is a philosophical thread that Currawong and I have been on for years now – and we called it the Human Animal Liberation Foundation – or the HALF movement, because we believe you’re only half alive unless you come to terms with the fact that you’re an animal……like the rest of the creatures on the planet. And if you’re tempted to instantly protest about how humans are different, how they are conscious sentient beings, or how they have souls, or how we’re at the top of the evolutionary scale, I have these things to say to you. Firstly, how and why are we different?? Don’t we have the same bits, needs and habits as other mammals?? And secondly about consciousness……modern science has pretty much agreed that consciousness exists in the frontal lobe, and guess what…..our frontal lobes are about 10 times smaller than whales and dolphins….which we kill and eat. And as for souls, who made you an expert on souls and who has them?? There is as much diverse discussion on what a ‘soul’ is as raindrops in an ocean, so if no one can agree, how can any decisions be made about who ‘has’ them?? ... And not only are we animals, but we’re the most domesticated animals on the planet. We proudly farm our ‘domesticated’ animals, and monoculture wild panoramas out of existence, whilst in complete denial that everything we do to them, we do to ourselves. Except we do it more to ourselves than any other animal on the planet. No other animal in it’s natural state has to ask permission to shit or wee or do it in allocated places, follow road rules and school rules and council rules and government rules, give over power of their lives and children and days and nights to bosses and mortgages and ‘media’. Follow the prescribed paths like rats in a maze, and then lock ourselves into our own cages at night. I could go on and on as you may well gather, but I reckon you’ve got the jist of my thinking. Which brings me back to the whole unschooling or free learning concept. I look at conventional schooling, and then I look at all the other mammal babies, and I wonder why we insist on expecting so incredibly much from our younglings!! I often refer to our children as baby lions, especially when they’re rolling round wrestling and giggling, or running stampede like through a supermarket, or screaming for the pure joy of being alive…..and I wonder why so many people see this behavior and want to make them sit and be quiet, and cross their legs with their backs straight, and suppress their natural curiosity and desires, and talk only when spoken to, and perform a myriad of tests and rote learnings and parrot style education. Other young mammals are pretty much left alone to explore their surroundings and limitations, to explore what their bodies can do, to watch and learn from observation of their parents and packs, and follow their mothers around and learn about what they’ll need to do when they get bigger. When they get too annoying or in the way they get a swift bite or kick from whichever elder member they’ve pissed off, and they get the point, and go gamboll somewhere else. In comparison to human years, it’s only when other mammal babies get to their teenage years, that they come out of the observers seat and start to join in the adult occupations. Why can’t our human babies enjoy the same kind of freedom??

She talks proudly of their lice infestation. It's a badge of honor or something.

She talks about how she's so thankful that Currawong was an asshole when she met him, and possibly abusive.

She talks about how they don't use birth control because it's just not sexy enough.

She calls herself a "creatrix."

She's into the radical free-birth thing too. When she had her twins, labor stalled after the first one was born. So she and Currawong went off and had sex, which didn't help much, so they waited for 2 days for the other twin to be born. 2 days!

And she's currently begging the internet for money to buy a "Coaster." I take it their van broke down.

Check them out, won't you? But be sure you have a ton of time to kill.

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This is the opposite of child training....I prefer the middle ground, teaching children to act like humans in a non abusive way.

Im guessing Jessica is the favourite as she is the only one who has a name that wont stop her from getting a job outside of stripping when she is older.

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I think there is a thread on these folks already. Isn't she the one who delivered a twin, went and had some sexy times with the hubby and waiting almost a day to deliver the second?

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Jessica seems to be Hellena's daughter from a previous relationship. She's around 20 years old.

I think there is a thread on these folks already. Isn't she the one who delivered a twin, went and had some sexy times with the hubby and waiting almost a day to deliver the second?

I don't think they had their own thread, we just snarked a bit in the Aussie thread. If I'm wrong, then this should be merged.

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Im guessing Jessica is the favourite as she is the only one who has a name that wont stop her from getting a job outside of stripping when she is older.

I was thinking they had one kid then drank a ton of kool-aid.

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Holy fuck, she makes me look positively mainstream parenting/lifestyle wise. Next time my family rags on me for being "a hippie" i am SO sending them to this blog. Holy shit.

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I was thinking they had one kid then drank a ton of kool-aid.

Kool-aid? no way! that's full of like, preservatives and dyes and sugar! They drank a potion sweetened by raw honey from the bees they raised and then harvested themselves on the full moon !

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I fell down that rabbit hole when Lauren's thread was ongoing.

Just another fucked up woman with a fucked up man raising kids. Seems her life was hell at one point and the only way to change that, in her mind, was to do everything and anything to live differently. Not look at herself or her choices, but to simply do whatever no one else does because that's the solution to everything.

I know we frown upon comments about appearance around here, but she's also a large, unattractive woman and I say that not simply to comment on her looks, but to say that I think that has a lot to do with her insecurities - insecurities that no doubt led to the life she lives now with a lazy assed man who doesn't work, was more than likely abusive (if he isn't still), and probably isn't very nice to her in general given many of the comments she's made and stories she's told.

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I was thinking they had one kid then drank a ton of kool-aid.

If they just use their first names, Griffyn and Lilith might be okay, and the last one can use his second name, Cyrus. But the others. Well they need the button that a friend in college had that said "Don't laugh at my name, my parents were hippies." But even her name wasn't as far out as these.

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Their children are beautiful. That's all I'll say. :lol:

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I never would have DREAMED of asking people to donate

Except that it worked so well for Lauren.

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Just another fucked up woman with a fucked up man raising kids. Seems her life was hell at one point and the only way to change that, in her mind, was to do everything and anything to live differently. Not look at herself or her choices, but to simply do whatever no one else does because that's the solution to everything.

She loves extremes, that's for sure:

A note to the menfolk......

Once upon a time I was a radical lesbian feminist. I’d come to that position from having indifferent, dodgy, and invisible connections with men in my childhood, having been molested as a child, and probably partly being really pissed off that my dad had left me and died when I was 7. After being brought up a fundamentalist Christian, I rejected the concept that men were better than me because they had a dick. And when I birthed my first daughter I realised that there was a whole lot more to this mother/birthing/woman thing than I’d been told. I read ‘Women Who Run With The Wolves’ and Mary Daly, Barbara Walker, Alice Walker, Dale Spender, and a host of other feminist writers, and got really really mad. Furious that my lineage of strong women had been kept from me. Enraged that men had taken over the world and turned it into warfare and cruelty. Brandished the word ‘patriarchy’ as a bludgeon, and attended women’s groups. Not long after my re-education, I had a fling with a woman and slowly but surely morphed into a lesbian feminist that teetered on the edge of separatism.

But then she met Currawong! He liked her even though she slept with him right away! He was grumpy because people expected him to know how to fix stuff just because he's a man, and that taught her that men have problems too! So she's not a radical feminist anymore.

Now she's just crazy.

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Would anyone here knowingly buy woolen goods, hats, clothing and such like from a family infested with lice?

Ok I do know hippies almost as crazy as these people but now that I live in town I don't have too much exposure to them. The whole tribal hippy thing is deeply infected with misogyny even if you remove the veneer of christianity these folks have. I had a long discussion about these issues with the DDs father on thursday. Apparently our egalitarian relationship is 'old fashioned' to some. We're both observing this regression played out in different parts of our community by younger folks.

Excuse my ramble and any typo's my vision is totally on the fritz today.

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Would anyone here knowingly buy woolen goods, hats, clothing and such like from a family infested with lice?

That's a big No.

If the van dropped a timing belt, why do they need a new van? Isn't replacing the timing belt a lot cheaper than buy a new van? And does anyone know what a Coaster van is?

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That's a big No.

If the van dropped a timing belt, why do they need a new van? Isn't replacing the timing belt a lot cheaper than buy a new van? And does anyone know what a Coaster van is?

I think a Coster van is like the van that Lauren bought with her donations.

If anyone here wants to buy me one I'll take it :lol:

toyota-coaster-van-image.jpg

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She loves extremes, that's for sure:

But then she met Currawong! He liked her even though she slept with him right away! He was grumpy because people expected him to know how to fix stuff just because he's a man, and that taught her that men have problems too! So she's not a radical feminist anymore.

Now she's just crazy.

And apparently she's not a lesbian anymore...because we're apparently all doing it because we hate men or something :roll: I've never been molested, my father is still married to my mother and never left me, I don't hate men, in fact I have some great male friends and relatives. And I don't think I'm better than anyone. So how am I still a lesbian, using her crazy logic? Maybe because...I find women attractive and would like a sexual and romantic relationship with one, and want none of that with a man? Unless of course she thinks not wanting to have sex with a man ever means you hate them.

This shit really pisses me off :x

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And right about here was when I stopped reading that grimy noise:

I’ve sat with murderers, and businessmen, and rapists, and clergy, and paedophiles, and politicians, and dominatrix’s, and doctors, and prostitutes, and psychologists, and drug dealers, and fundamentalists, and bikers, and police officers, and just about anyone else that might have graced the likes of Australia’s Most Wanted, and seen myself. Connected with them, not as a judge, or a do gooder, or trying to hide a sensationalised voyeur…….but as an equal. And been honoured and privileged that they also showed me all their beauty, and fragility, and sensitive hurtness. Their inhumanity and humanity all together and intermingled. Not separated into the polite and nice boxes that we often like to keep ourselves in.

I have a lot of empathy. But I have never seen myself in a pedophile or a rapist. And it is troublesome that she sees not the horror of exploitation and violent attack and submission of the will of those who have not given consent, but rather sees beauty and fragility and people whose will to rape and harm mingled with their love of pretty butterflies and bizarre crochet hats because they weren't in the "nice boxes that we often like to keep ourselves in."

It's more than troubling that she sees pedophiles as just people who let their id mingle with with their superego because they let their impulses develop outside of nice and polite boxes, whatever the hell that means. It's kind of her to see them as human beings and not the sum total of their failure as human beings. But it's hard not to read this and think this is a woman who would have no problem with her children being sexually exploited because hey, man, she could see herself in the beauty and fragility of that person who violated her child, you know?

Good luck, Hellena. Your lice-infested, ill-named children will not thank you one bit for this life you are giving them when they have to face the world more or less culturally and socially illiterate and carrying the emotional scars that come from a life as an unprotected child.

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And apparently she's not a lesbian anymore...because we're apparently all doing it because we hate men or something :roll: I've never been molested, my father is still married to my mother and never left me, I don't hate men, in fact I have some great male friends and relatives. And I don't think I'm better than anyone. So how am I still a lesbian, using her crazy logic? Maybe because...I find women attractive and would like a sexual and romantic relationship with one, and want none of that with a man? Unless of course she thinks not wanting to have sex with a man ever means you hate them.

This shit really pisses me off :x

She is probably bisexual and can comfortably go either way. So when she was angry at men, she was with women; now that she is angry at women, she is with a man.

I could go either way. Right now I am in a conventional marriage, if something happens to that I will probably stick with women. People who "cure" their homosexuality tend to be people who are like me, pretty much omnisexual, and they assume that everyone else is the same way. But of course this is not the case.

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I'm loving the nakey pics on her "about me" page. Because you can't really enjoy a blog without first seeing the writer's and her partner's genitalia.

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Their house looks like a dumpster...everything is so dirty! >.<

BTW their kids are beautiful!

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I'm loving the nakey pics on her "about me" page. Because you can't really enjoy a blog without first seeing the writer's and her partner's genitalia.

I've given up reading so many blogs for that very reason. They have no credibility unless you can see how their husbands are hung. A loss, but I just had to get over it.

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I've given up reading so many blogs for that very reason. They have no credibility unless you can see how their husbands are hung. A loss, but I just had to get over it.

OMG :shock: :o I had to look because I did not think it could be that bad.

Indeed, she and her husbandfellow are just standing around completely nude facing the camera.

Imagine the poor bystander who took that photo. "Hey can you take a picture of us in front of this tree?" "Why, sure! Wait, why are you taking off your shirts? Oh noooooo...."

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I've given up reading so many blogs for that very reason. They have no credibility unless you can see how their husbands are hung. A loss, but I just had to get over it.

:laughing-rolling:

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I think Hellena and Currawong should do a wife swap with Josh and Anna.

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Wow! Several things come to mind. Um, her crochet work is butt-ugly, the "love of her life" looks like he hasn't bathed in months, and her kids do not need to see nude pictures of their parents on the internet.

But most of all, I think she is even more empty inside than Lauren. It's like she has no personality of her own, so she just tries on "extreme" personas, desperately trying to find one that will get her the kind of attention she craves. Someone or something fucked her up waaaay early on.

And she and the dirty guy are further proof for me that there is no god. Because those to should never have been allowed to breed.

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