Breaking MAXWELL news/Liz cancelled the wedding to Joe

[jesssnerch]

Ooh, I feel special, they responded to my Gotye post! Notice the SOTDRT wrong use of "their":

Wally on August 15, 2012 at 2:07 pm said:

Hopefully this trip will help heal the family’s broken hearts :(

I wish Joseph would just keep in mind that you can get addicted to a certain kind of sadness. Like resignation to the end, always the end.

I sure hope that Elizabeth and Joseph could still be friends. But I’ll bet that with all the stress they will both soon be glad that it is over.

Praise the LORD and all his glory.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Their are no hard feelings whatsoever between them.

[marmalade]

The Munck's "Wordless Wednesday" post is pretty painful. Those strawberries were obviously snacks for the shower that never was. I feel for the Muncks and the expenses they put out. Joe would have bought a house at some point, so no skin off his teeth, as it were. And a whole, what was it? $22 for rehersal dinner party favors? Big whoop.

[thoughtful]

Latest comment on the Munck blog -

I had been following the progress of the house and wedding plans. It is hard to make the decision to back out of a courtship. It is for the best if you were not at peace. It is best for you and Joseph. I hope you remain friends and this draws both of you closer to the Lord. Courtship is so wonderful in that it protects each party involved. Is there hurt if something like this happens, yes, but it is something that will pass and you both will learn from. Stay anchored in the Lord. ~Becky

Still defending courtship, whoever she is. :roll:

Joseph and Elizabeth only met three times.

Let's imagine they'd had a "wordly" relationship, in which those three times they met were three dates, sharing, oh, let's say, a meal (with a nice long talk), a movie (with another talk after), and going to a sporting event with some friends.

Imagine that, other than a few good friends and perhaps close family, nobody knew about those three dates.

Imagine that one or both of them just decided, after those three dates, that this just wasn't The One.

Can anyone in their right mind really think that is less hurtful than what Joseph and Elizabeth went through, expecting this to be perfect, re-building a house, having the whole thing blogged for the world to read, both families going off the deep end about it all, being told God was directing it?

[Witsec7]

Yes, choosing not to see someone after three dates, let's even call them casual dates wouldn't be a blip on the radar for normal people. But Steve raised the bar when it came to public expectations. I think he was initially intent on moving towards arranged marriages. I think this latest failure will ensure that no Maxwell's will be leaving the pod soon.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Latest comment on the Munck blog -

Still defending courtship, whoever she is. :roll:

Joseph and Elizabeth only met three times.

Let's imagine they'd had a "wordly" relationship, in which those three times they met were three dates, sharing, oh, let's say, a meal (with a nice long talk), a movie (with another talk after), and going to a sporting event with some friends.

Imagine that, other than a few good friends and perhaps close family, nobody knew about those three dates.

Imagine that one or both of them just decided, after those three dates, that this just wasn't The One.

Can anyone in their right mind really think that is less hurtful than what Joseph and Elizabeth went through, expecting this to be perfect, re-building a house, having the whole thing blogged for the world to read, both families going off the deep end about it all, being told God was directing it?

EXACTLY.

Thing is, for Steve-O and other similarly holier-than-thou religious, they seem to have a stereotyped idea of secular people that surely every time we have a "date" we're stripping down and having sex on the second date already if not the first.

It's the same old stupid dichotomy they have behind every other facet of their lives - either you live this super pure religious existence and believe in all the religious stories and the God did it in six days and all the rest of that nonsense down to the LETTER (be it Christian fundie, ultra-orthodox Jewish, or whatever flavor fundie you like) OR you're a heathen living only for fleeting pleasures of the flesh, humping everything that moves and having no direction in your life whatsoever. We secular people surely have no higher meaning to our lives, no plans, no discipline, no moderation, no sincerity, no, we're just animals chasing after the fleeting pleasures of wanton sex and cheeseburgers with extra bacon.

It's ridiculous, is what it is.

Haha, you have just inspired the latest comment by Paul H. aka Bono.

Heh. I'm not worthy... :D

[mockingbird]

Heh. I'm not worthy... :D

It just fit so perfectly :oops: Ironically though when I was a kid I misheard it as "he" and thought it was about God for YEARS. lol Sad I'm not as special as Gotye... :violin:

I'm just waiting for when Steve finally reads here and does a massive comment deleting spree...

[thoughtful]

Yes, choosing not to see someone after three dates, let's even call them casual dates wouldn't be a blip on the radar for normal people. But Steve raised the bar when it came to public expectations. I think he was initially intent on moving towards arranged marriages.

Probably.

Steve is such a mess, and trying so hard to have rigid, total control over as much of his world as possible -- nothing he could do would surprise me.

And, it doesn't surprise me, but it -- searching for the right word - dismays (I guess) me that commenters can know this whole story and still blithely post about how courtship protects from hurt!

The dead parrot is right in front of them, and they still claim he's pining for the fjords!

4vuW6tQ0218

[thoughtful]

Thing is, for Steve-O and other similarly holier-than-thou religious, they seem to have a stereotyped idea of secular people that surely every time we have a "date" we're stripping down and having sex on the second date already if not the first.

It's the same old stupid dichotomy they have behind every other facet of their lives -

I know, I know. But it's such hard work to twist everything around to fit their mindset, when actual, factual Life is right in front of them disproving it.

They must all be mentally exhausted.

Or, like the Maxwells, they all bustle around all the time, cleaning and re-cleaning and wrapping tiny bits of food individually, and smiling broadly when a camera is nearby, and keeping busybusybusy so they don't think without Daddy's direction.

[luckystone]

Ooh, I feel special, they responded to my Gotye post! Notice the SOTDRT wrong use of "their":

Wally on August 15, 2012 at 2:07 pm said:

Hopefully this trip will help heal the family’s broken hearts :(

I wish Joseph would just keep in mind that you can get addicted to a certain kind of sadness. Like resignation to the end, always the end.

I sure hope that Elizabeth and Joseph could still be friends. But I’ll bet that with all the stress they will both soon be glad that it is over.

Praise the LORD and all his glory.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Their are no hard feelings whatsoever between them.

:clap: :clap:

[lilwriter85]

Some of the latest comments posted. Wally's went through.

Wally on August 15, 2012 at 2:07 pm said:

Hopefully this trip will help heal the family’s broken hearts :(

I wish Joseph would just keep in mind that you can get addicted to a certain kind of sadness. Like resignation to the end, always the end.

I sure hope that Elizabeth and Joseph could still be friends. But I’ll bet that with all the stress they will both soon be glad that it is over.

Praise the LORD and all his glory.

>>>>>>>>>>>

Their are no hard feelings whatsoever between them.

M. B on August 15, 2012 at 8:17 pm said:

Soon these tears will be drying.

Soon these eyes will see the sun.

Might take time, but I’ll see it.

It won’t be long.

Gonna feel the sweet light of Heaven.

Shining down its light on me.

One sweet day.

Thinking of you as you heal from this difficult period. Joseph will be back on his feet again in no time.

[Just_Jane]

I just went on a handful of casual dates with a guy that I will not being seeing more of unless it's in passing. Not the end of the world and I am hardly devastated. My mom called to talk and she ask how it was going because I had mentioned seeing someone. I said we weren't going out anymore. she said well better luck next time and asked if I had a certian dvd or was it my sister who had it. so yeah you can see the family pain right there.

I've always wondered what the champions of courtship think people do on dates. Like the average casual date. How is having a meal alone with someone going to somehow lead them down a terrible road to sin. Restaurants frown on public sex shows. so why can't courting couples go off and have a nice dinner alone in a public restaurant to chat and get to know each other away from their families?

[lilwriter85]

Oh I just saw jessnerch's post about the comment.

Well the Maxwells got some wise words from Adele, Carrie, Katy, Tammy, and M.B. over the past couple of days.

[Just_Jane]

Such wise words. Very clever as well. :clap: :clap: :clap:

[thoughtful]

Oh I just saw jessnerch's post about the comment.

Well the Maxwells got some wise words from Adele, Carrie, Katy, Tammy, and M.B. over the past couple of days.

It's a good thing I have self-control, because my silly side is calling me to post something totally inappropriate, and not fundified at all.

Why don't we do it in the road?

John, Jacob Jingleheimer Schmidt, his name is my name too!

This is the song that does not end, yes it goes on and on my friend . . .

Hava nagila, hava nagila . . .

:D

But I won't. I am a good girl.

[luckystone]

I've always wondered what the champions of courtship think people do on dates. Like the average casual date. How is having a meal alone with someone going to somehow lead them down a terrible road to sin. Restaurants frown on public sex shows. so why can't courting couples go off and have a nice dinner alone in a public restaurant to chat and get to know each other away from their families?

They're convinced they'll have sex...I don't know, in the toilets or somewhere. Or in an alley? Or they'll leave the restaurant via the back door and go to a hotel? I don't know. It's extremely irrational. I guess if you're desperate to prevent kissing you need a chaperone, but just sex? If they really wanted they could drop the couple off and pick them up in a public place and they wouldn't have had a chance to have sex.

It also doesn't say much about the self-control of these people. I've known (or known of) a couple of people (yeah...not many at all) in my broader social circles who didn't want sex until marriage, because it was what they wanted they didn't do it! One of them was a raging hypocrite who thought everything else except PIV was okay, but she was still able to restrain herself without a chaperone.

Even if you put kids together alone, if they are nervous or not otherwise attracted to each other they won't have sex. I had a couple of male friends come for sleepovers in high school. No sex or any suggestion of it. Would have been weird and awkward.

[TMS]

Sounds like Nathan and Melanie got to know each other first, before even beginning courtship....AND, they got some alone time together when Nathan proposed, AND they didn't rush the wedding so much: titus2.com/courtship/nathan-melanie.html

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Sounds like Nathan and Melanie got to know each other first, before even beginning courtship....AND, they got some alone time together when Nathan proposed, AND they didn't rush the wedding so much: titus2.com/courtship/nathan-melanie.html

I clicked on the link and it just went to titus2.com

steve-stop reading here :snooty:

[Jezebel]

I've always wondered what the champions of courtship think people do on dates. Like the average casual date. How is having a meal alone with someone going to somehow lead them down a terrible road to sin. Restaurants frown on public sex shows. so why can't courting couples go off and have a nice dinner alone in a public restaurant to chat and get to know each other away from their families?

I can't even begin to count the number of casual dates I've been on, where all we did was chat over a meal--and without so much as mentioning sex. Many times, I realized that I wasn't attracted to my date's personality or values, and thus the first date would be the last. Many of the guys I went on first dates with came to the same conclusion about me. Those dates ended without sex, and with little more than a handshake or quick, minimal-contact hug just to be nice. No harm done, either way.

Then again, I wasn't raised in a religious pressure-cooker with minimal knowledge about sex, forbidden to masturbate or fantasize, and thus with no idea how to manage my sexual desires and attractions to other people. At age 13, I knew I wasn't ready to have sex with anyone yet, but my knowledge about sex, how to cope with sexual feelings, and of my own sexual anatomy outstripped any of these unmarried, SAH, fundie young adults'. Small wonder these kids can't be trusted to date, or to mingle with the opposite sex unchaperoned. Their parents have denied them the ability to handle those kinds of social interactions responsibly, and without making them all about SEX. These kids have no internal locus of control when it comes to sex (or other pleasures, like food; illus.: Josh Duggar) because their parents never helped them develop it.

I wonder what Steve and Teri did on their dates, way back when? Because nobody arranged a courtship for them. How did they manage to get it right by finding and marrying each other, but their children can't possibly be trusted to do the same? They met, they did things together while getting to know each other, and Steve asked Teri to marry him--and if he asked her dad's permission first, it was as an old-fashioned formality. Same with the Duggars, the Bateses, the Muncks, and all of these other purity-obsessed QFers.

What do these parents feel so guilty and ashamed of in their own past dating lives that they now reject the concept entirely? What was so terrible and scarring that they can't risk their children following in their footsteps? Because their fixation on "purity," to the point that they won't even allow their engaged children to touch each other before the wedding, is so incredibly obsessive and neurotic. It's become a fetish, really, and an incredibly destructive one at that.

[sparkles]

So if there are no hard feelings and no one's given away pieces of their hearts (not to mention their hymens), then why is there sadness an anyone's part and what the fuck do they have to "heal" from? According to the courtship model, the response to a break-up should be nothing more than "la di dah" and everyone's on his or her merry way, with no emotional baggage whatsoever. Something just ain't adding up, no matter how they try to spin this. Why the dramah, from the family AND the fans? Just move on, right?

[browngrl]

And I'm a little miffed that God never planned a trip for me, damn it!

Oh God did plan a trip for you...he is planning to lay it on the the Maxwells' heart to swing by and pick you up for what some people might call a vacation. :D

edited because of riffle (but still not sure about the apostrophe placement)

[Guest Anonymous]

Apostrophal placement good. "heart" should normally be plural but, in this context, perhaps is correct. :mrgreen:

[bouncyball]

Damn, why didn't I think of Michael Bolton earlier?

Dear Maxwells,

I could hardly believe it when I heard the news today. I had to come and hear it straight from you...

[kpmom]

Oh God did plan a trip for you...he is planning to lay it on the the Maxwells' heart to swing by and pick you up for what some people might call a vacation. :D

Stuck in a remote cabin with the Maxwells? That's ok, God! Really! I don't need a trip, honest! I won't complain ever again, I promise!!!! I'll be good! No, no, no!

[pixydust]

I wonder what Steve and Teri did on their dates, way back when? Because nobody arranged a courtship for them. How did they manage to get it right by finding and marrying each other, but their children can't possibly be trusted to do the same? They met, they did things together while getting to know each other, and Steve asked Teri to marry him--and if he asked her dad's permission first, it was as an old-fashioned formality. Same with the Duggars, the Bateses, the Muncks, and all of these other purity-obsessed QFers.

What do these parents feel so guilty and ashamed of in their own past dating lives that they now reject the concept entirely? What was so terrible and scarring that they can't risk their children following in their footsteps? Because their fixation on "purity," to the point that they won't even allow their engaged children to touch each other before the wedding, is so incredibly obsessive and neurotic. It's become a fetish, really, and an incredibly destructive one at that.

Honestly, I would be willing to bet that Steve pressured Teri into sex on the first date. The people that I have known who appeared to be the most reserved had the worst pasts (not that sex on the 1st date is bad, I've had a couple of one nighters that ended up being relationships, but that he pressured her in a skeevy way.. like "I paid for dinner! The least you can do is put out."). I think that Steve probably had a lot of debauchery in his past and he feels guilty about it, and thinks that because he had little to no self control that no one else does either.

Steve, guess what? I went to a party 2 weeks ago....I had a red solo cup of Sangria and a red solo cup of mudslide (just to give measurements) and I met this amazingly hot guy.... completely my type. We chatted a bit, laughed, I criticized his margarita making skills, and I went home with my husband. Nothing happened with the hot guy, in spite of me being mildly snockered. I have self control. Had we both been single, I would have found a way to give him my phone number and possibly a quick peck on the cheek, but I love my husband and am happily married. I didn't need a chaperon, I handled it just fine, thanks. The majority of people can handle themselves.

[TMS]

A little off-topic but I just remembered a story my mom used to tell me. When my mom was young, she had a guy friend that really liked her, but she didn't like him back the same way. He asked her out a lot, and my mom would say no, firmly but kindly. One day the young man called and my mom answered the telephone. He asked to speak to my grandfather. When my grandfather got on the phone, the man said, "I love J. very much, and I want your permission to have her hand in marriage." My grandfather said, "Well, don't you think you ought to ask J. first?" This was back in the 50's and my grandfather was a very conservative, country preacher (no pants for women, no drinking or dancing) but even he never expected to tell my mom who she could and couldn't date.