• Sky
  • Blueberry
  • Slate
  • Blackcurrant
  • Watermelon
  • Strawberry
  • Orange
  • Banana
  • Apple
  • Emerald
  • Chocolate
  • Charcoal

Search the Community: Showing results for tags 'iblp'.



More search options

  • Search By Tags

    Type tags separated by commas.
  • Search By Author

Content Type


Forums

  • General Information
    • Announcements
    • Polls Archive
  • Discussions
    • Quiver Full of Snark
    • Quiver Full of Politics
    • Quiverfull of Subforums
    • SOTDRT
    • Quiver Full of Worldly Distractions
    • Recommended Reading
    • Archived Topical Threads

Categories

  • Free Jinger Meta Information

Blogs

  • FJ Reviews & Recaps
  • Free Jinger Blog
  • Destiny31's Corner
  • All Shall Know the Wonder
  • Buffy's Commentary
  • Everything and the Kitchen Sink
  • MarblesMom Recaps The Chat
  • Insomnia Notes and News
  • Reason & Faith ... musings, thoughts and conversation
  • Hanging On By My Teeth
  • Elvis
  • The Bible Virgin
  • Curious' Coloring, Crafts & Commentary
  • Other People's Sense and Nonsense
  • Looking For a Clue
  • Fascinated
  • Musings of a (Future) Music Therapist
  • Trynn's Parodies
  • FJ Colorists Unite
  • The Rabbit Hutch
  • Cooking, Baking and Painting in Italia
  • The Random Eye
  • criscat's thoughts(for what it's worth)
  • Rarely Updated Blog of A Midwestern Pencil Pusher
  • Musings of the Shepherd on the Rock
  • Bragandbounce's Blog
  • Not A Sims Blog*
  • The Girl Who Blogged
  • Singsingsing's blog
  • Sew and Sew
  • Life on the Edge
  • Grad Student, Bad Student.
  • The Gay Agenda (TM)
  • Musings of An Annoying Fangirl
  • Thoughts & Feelings from the Last Frontier
  • The Rabbit Hole of Rants
  • The School of Things School Didn't Teach You
  • Truly, Lawfully, Evilly Yours
  • All things Alfie (and some Millie too)
  • Bible belt agnostic
  • Motel mumblings....what were we thinking?
  • In a fairytale world
  • Surviving it
  • Goofing On
  • Among the Saints and Unicorns
  • Kids, cats and my life.
  • Randumb Thoughts
  • Ali's Corner
  • Thaiing up my life
  • Cat Tales
  • Feministxtian
  • Adventures with a Ladybird Herd - and other tales from the North
  • Totally Not A Blog
  • Read Harder Challenge
  • Can You Smell What (Jinder)'s Cooking?
  • Feed Jinger
  • Testing Corner
  • Weekend Baking
  • Baby Thor
  • christmasSOCKing's blog
  • The Grimm Leaper
  • HPF's Spectacular Scotland Sojurn
  • blogs_blog_67
  • I Wear T-Shirts Not Tragedies
  • The Shit Show That Is My Life
  • Mela's Life (Mostly Cats)
  • Looking for Love
  • MarkC
  • Many Ponderings of Pringles
  • Grapefruit Marmalade
  • Accentuate the Positive
  • The Masons and the Taylors
  • Life, and the musings of a psych tech
  • Random (not so deep) thoughts
  • nst
  • Blackberry rambles

Calendars

  • Community Calendar

Found 114 results

  1. Hello all! I've noticed a lot of new posters on the site recently - I'm assuming we have Josh Duggar (who is a waste) to thank - and I got the idea of writing up summaries of the Bateses to help out. Summaries start with the parents and then go by birth age of the child. Admins, feel free to merge if you need to. ETA: All summaries are available now. Click on each Spoiler to view them.
  2. Hi guys! For those of you who had watched the interview Chris Shelton (a researcher on cults) did with an IBLP survivor, they did a detailed, documentary-style follow up. (If this is in the wrong thread, please correct. Thanks!) Here it is:
  3. I was on the website of Telos, the unaccredited "college" run by IBLP and I noticed it says it is closing due to "finanicial stability." http://telos.edu/ It appears to me that IBLP is attempting to rebrand itself and seperate themselves from their Gothard era as much as possible. They have done away with a lot of programs from that time.
  4. IBLP is selling at least part of its real estate in Oz, and if that isn't good news enough, a newspaper report calls the group a cult, describes the Duggars' show as "canned" (aka "cancelled") and also mentions the peccadilloes of Josh & Mr. G!!! ETAsk, don't need to hide the image? I'm sorry if so! It's bunktime for me *and* my phone, I'm loopy.
  5. Not sure if this was posted before, but Big Sandy is scheduled for April. I was just browsing the offerings and mugshots of our usual suspects (Gil and OfGil Bates, Jim Bob and OfJimBob Duggar, the incomparable Davy Waller, and little Gabe Cleaver Cleator) when who should pop up but Steve and OfSteve Maxwell! I don't remember them being on the schedule before: http://familyconferences.org/events/family-conference/big-sandy/
  6. So I dug through the Wayback machine and finally found the old Bates blog. We have looked before and I'm not sure why we weren't able to find it. Wow, what a difference! One of the biggest things that stands out is that in the picture on top, Kelly is never holding a baby or even standing near a baby. They also bring up ATI and IBLP a lot. Here are some of the Bates going to Romania with Gothard to try to save Gypsies. And there are some super awkward Zack's courtship pictures. Poor girl was clearly never really into him. https://web.archive.org/web/20111206095054/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog This link tells how they gave Judson that name because they want him to be a soldier for Christ. The link also tells how the older partners(that was their word for buddy) were busy now, so she, at 10, "volunteered" to bathe, dress, and care for the small children. Here are the Bates "recipes" that make Tater Tot Casserole sound good. Pour canned beans over bread, put a sliced hot-dog on it and sprinkle on some cheese. Put a scoop of mashed potatoes on a slice of bologna and sprinkle on some cheese. https://web.archive.org/web/20101112160342/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog Zach goes to give a talk for IBLP and then Gil preaches about how rejection is conquered by realizing you have gifts. https://web.archive.org/web/20101221071610/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog/ Gil teaching at ATI's yearly conference. They don't even try to call it a "Family Conference". https://web.archive.org/web/20110620171906/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog Zach proposing a courtship. https://web.archive.org/web/20110710082032/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog Gil and Kelly drag a baby around the Grand Canyon with no hat and in only a onesie. Their poor parenting skills were discussed by Free Jinger at the time. https://web.archive.org/web/20110721000848/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog/ Carlin Josie and Katie doubt their salvation and get saved again. https://web.archive.org/web/20110817061300/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog/ They spend Valentine's day at IBLP headquarters. https://web.archive.org/web/20110220203649/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog Trace gets convicted of sin and is saved https://web.archive.org/web/20110220203649/http://gilbatesfamily.com/blog They campaign for Rick Santorum.
  7. I searched but didn't see where this movie had been discussed. It is a documentary about IBLP. I can't wait to see it. The movie comes out in 2017.
  8. Also, allegations of sex trafficking cover-up. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2016/01/06/new-charges-allege-religious-leader-who-has-ties-to-the-duggars-sexually-abused-women/
  9. Organization! KonMari is safe. http://www.noblecall.org/weblog/2011/02/27/organization-development-in-the-home-video/ I'm not a Duggar watcher but folks say this character is the one who asked Jimbob to put the end of a piece of rebar on his Adam's apple (that's not a euphemism). Anyway. As a naturally disorganized person, I'm always on the prowl for tips on getting things set up for tidiness, economy & efficiency. When this part of Rebar Man's website showed up, I had to watch. I will be tickled to read any comments you all have, and now I lend my own. Poor Mrs. Rebar is more tongue-tied than I've ever seen a woman, even a full-on IBLP Helpmeet. At least Mr. doesn't tilt his chin up So he can litetally look down his nose at her, as JimBob Fuggar does to his Mrs. They're so reaching for ideas: disposable cups & dishes and plastic flatware. They make some common sense remarks about not expecting the same thing from a very young child as they would an older sibling--a nod, I suppose, to blanket training and first-time obedience being cumulative. Nope, Ms. Marie Kondo of the KonMari practice of tidying up has no competition here. And now I'm off to pick up where I left off in reading her follow-up book.
  10. Is there a comprehensive list of which politicians that are linked to any of the organizations that we concluded to be apart the Quiverful movement? All I can think of is Rep John Webster in Florida. I thought that it could be nice to put together a list to view as we get closer to November election. Also what trigger this is I wonder if Senator James Lankford from Oklahoma has any ties. What I know is he was apart of the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma with the student ministries and evangelism specialist as well as the director of Falls Creek youth programming at Falls Creek Baptist Conference Center (Davis, Ok). I can't find anything that would connect him but I doubt I'm looking for the right things.
  11. Big sandy starts tomorrow! Fj faves lead the way with sessions such as David Waller's "who are you?" and Gil and Kelly bates' "beware of pitching your tent towards sodom". Interesting to see that the duggars are excluded from the schedule entirely but the bates are presenting multiple sessions each day. (And I wonder - are the bates on the schedule that much bc they are popular or bc ati is scraping the bottom of the barrel for speakers?) http://familyconferences.org/events/family-conference/big-sandy-2016/
  12. Since this crosses Quivers I figured I put it here. So we know that the older Bateseses girls went to JTTH and that the oldest Duggar girls did as well. Also Pris went and I think Suze Waller. Did Anna go? I think I saw mentioned that Ashley Sayler went. And I think we've seen pictures of at least one Paine girl there. I'm wondering about the next group of kids. Has Joy Anna gone? Will the young girls go? In 10 years will there be a pick of the lost girls with Callie and Addallee at JTTH? On a related note, we've seen one Duggar boy after another go off to Alert. Have any of the Bateseses boys gone? What about TFDW? Or Brandon Keilen?
  13. It took me a year to spend my Raptureversary winnings from 2014. Finally I decided it would be fitting to spend them on Gothard literature and took the plunge. I have in my possession Research in Principles of Life Basic Seminar Textbook and Research in Principles of Life: Advanced Seminar Textbook. I bought used and saved the difference, which left me with enough money to buy a used video game I've been pining for, too. I got the books a few weeks ago with the hope of mocking sharing them with Free Jinger and was immediately discouraged. C/P from another thread, to save me some typing: Yeah, so, the index and table of contents aren't much use when it comes to finding information on a particular subject, but I will try to look up anything you guys are interested in. I found a testimony from someone who talked about how great it was to abstain from sex with his wife for half the month, which was a topic I am curious about--naturally I didn't mark the page--but if I can find it again I will post it. My version of the basic text says copyright 1979, 1981, Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts, so it's pretty old and maybe extra crazy? We shall see! The advanced textbook says copyright 1986, sixth printing, January 1991. Here is a picture of the books, with my breakfast and a beer for scale. Next post will be the copyright warning/guilt trip inside front cover, because it made me lol.
  14. Mods, please merge if someone has already posted about this. Staddon Family blog announces that IBLP is downsizing & moving from Chicago to Big Sandy. staddonfamily.com/2015/09/14/texas-ho/ The decision has been made. Last week it was officially announced that IBLP will be relocating its headquarters from Chicago to Big Sandy, Texas. The trends over the last 15 years have shown that the ministry has more properties than it currently needs, and after much prayer and consideration it was decided that it would be a financially strategic move to consolidate with the ALERT campus down in Texas. While not unexpected, the move will still be quite a change for all of us. ... God miraculously provided the Oak Brook property for the Institute back in 1969, and since then groups and delegations from all over the world have come seeking practical instruction on how to apply Scriptural principles to every aspect of life. While this brings a chapter of IBLP’s history to a close, the vision of introducing people to Jesus Christ and providing families, churches, businesses, and nations with Biblical training on how to find true success in life remains unchanged. The Lord has worked mightily in the past and we are excited about what He has for the future. We are all one body in Christ (1 Cor. 12), and as each member looks to the Head and follows His leading we know He has great things in store for each one.
  15. It's about time. recoveringgrace.org/2015/10/negligence-lawsuit-filed-against-iblp/ Mods, how do we break links in the new format? Removing the front portion doesnt break the link like it used to.
  16. If you have spent any time on Free Jinger, you will likely recognize the acronyms ATI and IBLP. This is the fundamentalist ministry created by Bill Gothard, an unmarried man who believes such things as: There has long been talk about both Bill Gothard and his brother committing acts of sexual misconduct with female employees and interns. As long ago as 1980, Gothard admitted to "moral failures" with some of the staff. We at FJ have long awaited some kind of action to be taken against this unmarried man who had unlimited access to vulnerable women who are taught from birth that if a man "stumbles" it is the woman's fault. On around October 21, 2015, we became aware that a civil lawsuit had finally been filed against IBLP and all the members of the Board. Bill Gothard is no longer part of the organization, having been forced to resign after another round of accusations in 2014. The board members named in the lawsuit are: John Stancil, Anthony Burrus, Gil Bates, Timothy Levendusky, Charles Stephen Paine, Jr., and David York. From Recovering Grace: The Complain in it's entirety can be found at the Chicago Tribune Each of the 5 Plaintiffs are asking for $50,000. Once a leader in the homeschooling movement, Gothard's ministry has managed to largely fly under the radar of the general public, despite having some rather high profile adherents. Recently, Rep. Daniel Webster (R -FL) was considering a run for Speaker of the House, following John Boehner's resignation. Arguably the most famous followers are The Duggar family of TLC's 19 Kids and Counting, which was cancelled after several scandals related to the oldest Duggar child, Josh. In May, 2015, In Touch magazine dropped the bombshell that when Josh Duggar was a teenager he sexually abused at least 5 girls, including several of his siblings. In August, it was revealed that Josh had not one, but two accounts at Ashley Madison, a website which has the tagline "Life is short. Have an affair." For some 10 seasons, the Duggars have been promoted by TLC as a (very) large, happy Christian family. They have shown the Duggars on the campaign trail for politicians such a Mike Huckabee and RIck Santorum. While claiming to be a shiny, happy Christian family, the Duggars have spoken out against the gay community and abortion. Josh was hired by the Family Research Council and moved to Washington, DC, which was also documented on 19 Kids and Counting. Recently, Gothard and his ministry have gotten more mainstream attention thanks to Josh Duggars misconduct and hypocrisy coming to light. While the Duggar family show, 19 Kids and Counting was cancelled by TLC, they have recently announced that they plan to do several "special episodes" of a show starring the newly married Duggar children, Jill Dillard and Jessa Sewald. What some people may not know is that another high profile Gothard adherent also has a TV show. Gil Bates and his family have a show titled Bringing Up Bates on the UP network. The Bateses are often seen as a less strict, more fun version of the Duggars. They also have 19 kids and in the last several years have married off 4 children, some of which were shown on either 19 Kids and Counting or Bringing up Bates. In fact, one of the Bates children married the son of Rep. Daniel Webster (R-FL) You might recognize the name Gil Bates from earlier in this post. That's right, he is a member of the Board of IBLP and was named in the lawsuit. The general public may have the Duggar's number thanks to Josh, but there is still a high profile IBLP member that has a platform to show off these dangerous beliefs on TV and he seems to be slipping under the radar, just like the Duggars did for many years. Please join us for discussion here: http://www.freejinger.org/topic/24484-negligence-lawsuit-filed-against-iblp/#top Further reading: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/10/22/five-women-sue-bill-gothards-ministry-that-has-ties-to-the-duggars/ http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/10/23/fundamentalist_duggar_connected_ministry_is_sued_for_sex_abuse_cover_up.html http://www.salon.com/2015/10/23/the_cult_of_duggar_worship_must_be_stopped_theres_nothing_glamorous_about_the_familys_ongoing_hypocrisy/
  17. So I'm reading The Rogue by Joe McGinnis (sorry, it's on my Kindle, so I don't have page numbers). A lot of criticism surrounded his book because he moved in next door to Sarah Palin on Lake Lucille, which he addresses. Joe McGinnis has been a favorite of mine for as long as I can remember because he wrote 'Fatal Vision' and I'm a super true-crime buff -- and growing up near Ft. Bragg and having my dad stationed there a few years after the murders of Collette, Kimberley, and Kristen MacDonald, it was talked about quite a lot during my childhood. I have actual pictures of the home from circa 2005 before it was torn down completely. Hey, I had a friend who was stationed there, sue me.) Anyway, I get to this little passage in the book and I'm floored. I know we covered Sarah Palin a lot of the yuku board, but she's kind of fallen off of the map as of late. However, this is what's in the book that I wanted to share: In April 2000, at city expense, she traveled to Indianapolis to attend a conference at the International Training Center of the evangelical Institute in Basic Life Principles (ILBP). The conference had been organized by the INternational Associateion of Character Cities (IACC), an affiliate of the Character Training Institute (CTI), an organization that sought to end the seperation of church and state. Among the speakers she heard was seventy year old evangelist Bill Gothard, who had founded ILBP, according to the organizations website, "for the purpose of giving individials, families, churches, schools, communities, governments, and businesses clear instruction and training of how to find success by following God's principles found in Scripture." Gothard's goal, as described by Silja J. ATalvi in 'In These Times' magazine, was to "rebuild American society according to biblical mandates." He believed that America's failures stemmed from a lack of personal character, which led to acts of disobedience against "God-ordained jurisdiction" represented by four types of authority: "parents, government, church leaders, and employers." ILBP literature distributed at the conference said, "God gives direction, protection, and provision through human authorities. If we rebel against them, we expose ourselves to destruction by evil principalities...This is why 'rebellion is the sin of witchcraft.'" ..... The Character Training Institute sought to instill civil institutions with forty-nine biblically based "character qualities," which it conveniently listed and defined on laminated, pocket size cards that also used pictures of the animal that represented each trait. For example, "Obedience: Quickly and cheerfully carrying out the direction of those who are responsible for me," was accompanied by anliiustration of a mother duck and her ducklings. ... Sarah also watched a video presentation by David Barton, an evangelical minister who served as the cochair to the Texas republican Party and who had founded WallBuilders, an organization that emphasized the "moral, religious, constitutional foundation on which America was built." In his talk, Barton proclaimed that the United States had been founded as an explicitly Christian nation and that continued seperation of church and state in America was an affront to the Lord. At the confrence, Sarah learned that Wasilla could become a designated "City of Character" if the city council passed a resolution pledging to uphold each of the forty-nine "character qualities" specified by the IBLP. She returned home enthused, and in short order a pliant city counsil approved her plan to declare Wasilla a City of Character. It became the only such city in Alaska.
  18. nothing really new but it is good gothard is getting more negative news. http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2015/ ... followers/ In recent years, the Duggars have become the poster family for wholesome values. But behind the 19 Kids & Counting family's strict God-loving guidelines is a controversial and ultra-conservative foundation: the Institute of Basic Life Principles. Now, in an exclusive investigation, RadarOnline.com has uncovered testimony from former followers of the IBLP, who warn that it is a "cult" that will do the famous family's children more harm than good! Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar began homeschooling their brood in the 1990s using the Bible-based curriculum of the IBLP's Advanced Training Institute, which was founded by disgraced leader Bill Gothard. He resigned from the organization last year amid allegations of sexually harassing women at his ministry and failing to report child abuse cases. Largely because of this tarnished history, former devotees of the Duggar family way say it's hard to even watch them play out their beliefs on their show. "I have no problem calling it a cult," former follower Micah Murray told RadarOnline.com. "What the Duggars are doing is putting Gothard's philosophies on display as a positive thing and they are not positive." "From my experience, it has the hallmarks of what makes cults so damaging - abusive authority structures, the way that people's thinking and behavior is controlled, the way that people aren't taught to trust themselves and trust their leader unquestionably," continued Murray, who runs his own blog, Redemption Pictures, about his experiences inside the Institute. "I've seen a number of episodes [of 19 Kids & Counting] and it makes me very uncomfortable," he added. "I think the Duggars are probably very nice people. They're probably very sincere people. But I think that the teachings of Bill Gothard are very destructive."
  19. A republished article by recovering grace highlighting how Gothard requires ATI families to manage 'moral impurity' in the home: http://www.recoveringgrace.org/2015/05/gracenote/ It is worth noting that ex-ATI students have already started to point out that the 'training program' Josh was sent to was run by IBLP. Hence, IBLP must have known about the molestations and yet did not report it to the police... despite the fact the police station was quite literally on the ground floor of the Little Rock training centre. IBLP willingly worked with Jim Bob and Michelle to cover up this disgusting crime.
  20. Josh's counseling location was the Little Rock Training Center. He was "counseled" by the ministry of Molestor Bill Gothard in a building Hobby Lobby donated to the ministry of Molestor Bill Gothard This is the "Old VA Hospital" referred to in the police report. The training center was donated by Hobby Lobby to IBLP. Josh's work there would have been renovations. We know from Recovering Grace that IBLP workers often did renovations as part of their work for the ministry (the Nashville hospital is one mentioned frequently.) "In 2000, Hobby Lobby donated a 529,717-square-foot building in Little Rock, Arkansas, to Gothard's outfit. The company had purchased this property, a former Veterans Affairs building, two years earlier for $299,000. The Institute now runs a prison ministry out of this location, providing curriculum to a faith-based Arkansas Department of Corrections program known as Principles and Applications for Life. For about a decade, according to Gothard, the Institute leased the ground floor of the building for $1 per year to the Little Rock Police Department for use as its downtown station. Now, Gothard says, the police are paying a regular rental fee." http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... principles Gothard touts former governor of Arkansas Mike Huckabee's name on materials promoting his "Character Cities" initiative. The two were photographed together at a private campaign luncheon in Houston in late 2007. For years, Gothard cultivated close ties to Huckabee, an alumnus of Gothard's "Basic Seminar", and to Jim Dailey, mayor of Little Rock. With encouragement from Mayor Dailey, Gothard opened his Little Rock Training Center in an empty VA hospital purchased by Hobby Lobby and donated to Gothard's Institute. Despite Gothard's grandiose vision, the enormous structure WAS IN POOR REPAIR and was never utilized as fully as the Indianapolis facility. Still, it served as a base for the Institute's prison ministry. Gothard quotes Governor Huckabee's support for conducting his seminars for Arkansas inmates: "I am confident that these are some of the best programs available for instilling character into the lives of people." Having gotten his foot in the door in Arkansas, Gothard combined forces with CCA, the nation's largest operator of privatized correctional institutions, to promote his intense lecture-based seminars inside more prisons." http://heresyintheheartland.blogspot.co ... thard.html Here's a picture: http://www.arkansasties.com/Pulaski/Str ... spital.htm
  21. People have mentioned how many TV families -- most notably, the Gosselins and the Honey Boo Boo clan, though I'm sure there are others -- tend to implode spectacularly under the pressure of being in the spotlight. And this phenomenon isn't limited to reality TV families; child stars, in general, seem to have a tough time of it psychologically, and they tend to start showing signs of trouble even before they're out of their teens (see Judy Garland, Drew Barrymore, Lindsay Lohan, Mary-Kate Olsen, Macaulay Culkin). But for the Duggars, things have been fairly placid, at least on the surface. None of the kids (and there are now eight who are 18 or older) have visibly rebelled against their parents in any significant way. And the show has been on the air almost seven years now. That's a long time for so many kids to be in the public eye without really departing from the fringy lifestyle they were raised in. It's remarkable, especially considering the low second-generation retention rates of cults in general. I wonder sometimes if we can credit their religious beliefs for this apparent stability -- totally independent of the religion's truth value. Obviously, the kids are pretty protected from the temptations of alcohol and drugs that have led so many performers astray. But I think there's something more than that: maybe that this belief system's emphasis on abnegating the self ("yourself last," having a servant's heart, "I am nothing without Christ," etc.) in part offsets the intense self-focus that generally accompanies fame and courts depression? Or maybe just that the "hedge of protection" has created such mental barriers that the kids no longer have the independent agency they would need to make their own mistakes? Or that this lifestyle forces them to get really good at shoving their pain down instead of externalizing it? I'm curious to hear your thoughts as to why the kids' course has run so apparently smooth thus far. (Of course, huge caveat here--things could start to unravel in a very public way down the line.)
  22. I read that Bill began his ministry empire by approaching gang members on the street in Chicago. He had great success talking with them and would invite them to some kind of event in a local hall. He says he could turn them around to have a heart for Jesus. So, why wouldn't t Bill with all his supposedly gang success volunteer to help Baltimore at this time?
  23. I don't know it this is relevant, but I was wondering about all the religions that are similar to the Duggars' but aren't quite the same. I know for one that the schwieters, they're an apostolic bunch, are very similar. I went with one for a bit, a few months, and they all wore the very modest clothes and the girls had to have very long hair. And in the end, the boy I went with, ended up marrying at 18 and having a baby not soon after with the girl he left for. The only difference really, is that they allowed dancing and I went swing dancing quite a few times.
  24. I am no expert, however, i know that many of you are on this subject. In thinking about the recent Easter holiday and its possible pagan origins, I got to thinking about the Mithras/Greek mythological/pagan connections to Christmas. I wonder if those of your who know more on this subject would mind enlightening us on this subject. It gives me a thrill to know that the Duggars and other fundies are celebrating pagan holidays when they hold themselves so high in practicing TRUE christianity. I read a book recently on this subject and it drew correlations to all of the ways modern christianity is truly a pagan religion in all of its practices - right down to communion, fasting, baptism, celebrations, the christ and on and on. while the book was fascinating, i understand things much better when someone draws me a picture in lay terms. would the experts mind explaining how the Duggars are grossly misguided and have such a little understanding of their own religion that it is laughable. I could use a laugh today.
  25. After reading a couple of blogs of ATI / similar cults survivors and leavers, I wondered if the Duggars have softened with the younger kids in regards of being strict(we know they are not exactly strict on the thriftyness and other topics.) What I was wondering about was there importance for "the happy face" or "good attitude" It seems to be very much existant with the older kids generally, but kids like Jennifer or jordyn are seen with a scowl or indfferent and defo not "good attitude" I wonder if they just let them be(in a certain frame) these days or if it is because ie Jenny is still an unbroken character and the moment that you only see "good attitude" pics of her is the point when she will have been broken.